another Yagudin article

[Ptichka]

Joe, both Bolshoi and Kirov only make $$$ on touring; they don't even give than many performances outside the classic standards in Russia. For instance, I recall a few years back going to see Kirov do Jewels at Lincoln Center - my friends back at Saint Petersburg couldn't even get in as there were too few performances they did in their home town. The income gap in Russia is way too great to make any real money in enterprises requiring thousands of people to show up.

 

[mzheng]

Joe,
You keep harping on how ALexei doesn't like America. Have you ever thought that he just says that to keep Russian readers happy? It seems that every Russian skater (Klimkin, Yagudin, Plushenko, Slutskaya) that hopes to work in Russia says that they prefer it there and wouldn't think to train in the US.

Now, that's what you talk about 'cold war' mentality (not necessary on skater side, mostly probably on the audiences and fans side). You have to talk bad about US to get yourself well accepted in your home country, which previouse in a 'cold war' with US? While in general US ppl have no problem critisizing their own country or goverment.

 

[bloozywoozy]

Ok, there have been a few things said that I just don't understand. Plush and Yagudin are both very wealthy men ... so why would anyone assume they would do this tour for the money? Has anyone considered they just might want to do it for the fans? Skating shows in Russia are few and far between, and it seems (from previous statements) that both of these skaters want to change that. I doubt that either of them would make a lot of money once all of the expenses are taken care of.QUOTE]

I agree. If Alexei put together some huge ice show (with or without Plushenko), he would be taking a major financial risk. Even though many showed up to honour Alexei at Dmitri's show in St. P, like Ptichka said, " The income gap in Russia is way too great to make any real money in enterprises requiring thousands of people to show up." Plus with the waning interest in SOI audience in North America...

And I agree with Jositz "

All that money over there and no none wants to produce an ice show and make money. Moscow has a renowned circus, renowned ballet and opera and theatre. Why not add an ice show. The tourists will go if they can't get tickets to the opera and ballet presentations. There are plenty of talent there to make a great show.

But again, financial risk aside, I think he would be doing it for the love of the sport, not for financial gain. Thats my 2 cents :yes:

 

[Ptichka]

MZheng, I disagree. With Americans, it's usually "Despite the fact that a, b, c, d, and e in our country are terrible, we are the best country on earth". Now, before anyone jumps at me for generalizing, I'm basing this statement largely on a study published perhaps a couple of years ago in the Economist. It found that Americans are far more "proud" of their country then most Europeans (yes, including those snobbish French). Note please that Alexei does not really criticize anything particular in the US, it's more of "perhaps it's a great country, I just don't love it".

 

[mzheng]

Ptichka, my post was respond to someone who had claimed the US ppl/fans (or SOI) not so wellcome Alexie because of some cold war feeling. My feeling was the opsite way.

I was grown up in a country with env much like pre Soviet Union with all those communist patroitic propaganda. When I first come here, the way general US ppl criticizing their own country still shocked me a little. Even I was prepared for how 'Freedom' of the United State before I came here. Believe or not the influence of those communist propagandas just don't despairs overnight.

Not to criticize Yagudin, I'm a fan of his skating, willing to cut him a lot slack (lol). Besides I fully understand his position. He might just try to 'fit' in which ever country he is current stay in to avoid the 'unpleasant'. I was stupid enough to defend US's position in 'War on Terro' during my last visit to china. Got the whole room of ppl against me, it was not a pleasant experience....Should've taken the lesson learned in China long time ago. NO POLITICS!

ETA,
All I'm saying is in general US ppl is more generous and open. People imigrante to this country not for no reason. The imigrantes more like successful in this contry than any other countries. Sometimes they are more successful here than their old home country.

 

[brad640]

Not to criticize Yagudin, I'm a fan of his skating, willing to cut him a lot slack (lol). Besides I fully understand his position. He might just try to 'fit' in which ever country he is current stay in to avoid the 'unpleasant'.

I agree and I see nothing wrong with Alexei tailoring his statements for whatever audience he is speaking to. That is just good PR. Most importantly, his skating speaks for itself and that is why he is a hot commodity to SOI.

 

[curious]

Soogar - I would think that he is trying to appease the Russian fans if I thought that was necessary. SOI doesn't travel 12 months a year. Alexei could travel to Moscow on his off time and perform as some featured star in a show.

For a country that takes figure skating so seriously as compared to the United States (jmo) the real shame of all this is that Russia does not have an Ice Show. All that money over there and no none wants to produce an ice show and make money. Moscow has a renowned circus, renowned ballet and opera and theatre. Why not add an ice show. The tourists will go if they can't get tickets to the opera and ballet presentations. There are plenty of talent there to make a great show.

If that were to happen, Alexi could reallye enjoy his life on two continents. The fault of his unhappyness does not lye in America but in his own country. Until that happens Alexei should be careful with what he says about either country. He could be biting off the finger that feeds him.

Joe

You can't blame Russia or the US for the guy's unhappiness. He is a very complex person with many issues he does not want to deal with that's my opinion

 

[Zanzibar]

"He is a very complex person..."

Yes indeed - and that's what makes him such an interesting personality. Yags is definitely the 'anti-blah' and the cure to the off-season, LOL.

 

[curious]

"He is a very complex person..."

Yes indeed - and that's what makes him such an interesting personality. Yags is definitely the 'anti-blah' and the cure to the off-season, LOL.

yes,and the reason he gets in so much trouble

 

[hockeyfan228]

Joe,
It seems that every Russian skater (Klimkin, Yagudin, Plushenko, Slutskaya) that hopes to work in Russia says that they prefer it there and wouldn't think to train in the US.

And I've never read an article or interview with Klimkin, Plushenko, or Slutskaya, or Berezhnaia/Sikuharlidze or Totmianina/Marinin or Volchkova for that matter, in which they have said to the NA press that they want to live here, and it's so great, etc., but then say the opposite to the Russian press. They've been consistent: they want to stay in Russia or return to it, their preference was to train in Russia -- which B&S couldn't do, because Moskvina was able to get them free facilities in the pre-Olympic years in the US, and they went with her, and T&M couldn't do because Vasiliev is in Chicago for similar reasons -- and they don't want to live in the US permanently. B&S, Plushenko (when healthy), and Slutskaya are in NA for part of the year because that's where the work is, and they've never made any bones about it. Some skaters are more diplomatic than others, and they praise different cities and aspects of the US, but the bottom line is that they want to be in Russia, particularly long term. For a young, talented person with some money, the big Russian cities are some of the most exciting, energized places on the planet. It shouldn't be surprising that Plushenko is proud of his country. The last time a political system changed that drastially without widespread violence was when Spain went from Franco's dictatorship to constitutional monarchy under Juan Carlos, and the scope was so much greater.

 

[soogar]

Well how many of these people that you mentioned actually interviewed by the North American press? I don't think there is anything wrong with loving your own country, but if you work in the US and take advantage of the free facilities, why even say anything negative about the US to the press? Irina is so damn annoying in her interviews when she says how she would never work in the US if she didn't have to blah, blah, blah. There are ice shows in Europe and Russia. Let her do her crappy travelling spins on the Averbukh show and not skate at all on COI if she feels so strongly. I think it shows insecurity when you have to put down another country to make your country look better.

Evan Lysacyk trained in Russia with Kundravstiev and even learned a little Russian and he has never said anything negative about that country (he was interviewed in Blades on Ice).

 

[RIskatingfan]

To read this thread and, at the same time, to think of how Yags has been consistently slammed over the years and called a "traitor" for living in the USA and showing no interest in returning to Russia, for criticizing his federation, for working with Brian Joubert...

 

[mzheng]

Well how many of these people that you mentioned actually interviewed by the North American press? I don't think there is anything wrong with loving your own country, but if you work in the US and take advantage of the free facilities, why even say anything negative about the US to the press? Irina is so damn annoying in her interviews when she says how she would never work in the US if she didn't have to blah, blah, blah. There are ice shows in Europe and Russia. Let her do her crappy travelling spins on the Averbukh show and not skate at all on COI if she feels so strongly. I think it shows insecurity when you have to put down another country to make your country look better.

Evan Lysacyk trained in Russia with Kundravstiev and even learned a little Russian and he has never said anything negative about that country (he was interviewed in Blades on Ice).

So we were back to squear one? LOL, from this post I see nothing conflict with what Joe said basically, you should not bite the hand feed you? Different ppl has different moral standard since they were grown up in different enviroment and influenced by different cutural. I might not approval for something, that only means I'm not going to do it personally, but I don't have problem with ppl doing it either.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Well how many of these people that you mentioned actually interviewed by the North American press?

All of them, except that Sikharulidze usually speaks for B&S. There were fluff pieces on all of these skaters except Klimkin. They're hard to miss, as were Totminanina/Marinin on the TV circuit after her fall last season.

 

[Vitacus]

Originally Posted by soogar
Well how many of these people that you mentioned actually interviewed by the North American press?

All of them, except that Sikharulidze usually speaks for B&S. There were fluff pieces on all of these skaters except Klimkin. They're hard to miss, as were Totminanina/Marinin on the TV circuit after her fall last season.

Exactly! All of them. Touring the US a couple of months a year and living permanently is two very different things.

You often hear the "but the 'Russian skaters' have no problem touring the US for big money blah blah", but that's exactly why they do it. That's why the Americans to do it too. They tour because it's an excellent opportunity to earn some good money, plus having fun at work, plus being seen, knowing they can and will return home soon enough. People do it every day, from 9 to 5. Eligible skaters need the income and tours provides not only good money (probably more than they earn from competing), but also a great deal of fun, so why wouldn't they?

These skaters (Plushenko, Slutskaya, T&M, B&S etc.) have all nice things to say about the tours, the cast and crew, the cities they visit etc. But I would be surprised if they at the end of the day wouldn't miss their homes and families in Russia. Long buss rides and working hours is enough to exhaust anyone. So while they enjoy touring the US, it's not enough to want to move there permantently to train. They love and prefer Russia. I see nothing wrong with that and it makes perfect sense.

 

[curious]

You have to be very naive to think people skate for the love of the sport,is all about the money nowadays. The difference is the amount of money the russians(with more titles) get compared to the americans and canadians

 

[mzheng]

Nothing wrong with skating for the big money in US. No body disagree with that. Some of ppl here just talking about shouldn't bite the hand feed you. But that's may be too much to ask for some. That's all.

 

[bloozywoozy]

to think of how Yags has been consistently slammed over the years and called a "traitor" for living in the USA and showing no interest in returning to Russia, for criticizing his federation, for working with Brian Joubert...

Exactly!! lol Except he has shown interest in returning to Russia, but he has to go where he is invited to skate (and coach). He's only been invited ONCE to skate Russia, in Arturs ice show, and even then, he did it for FREE. He has bills to pay and just a "love of the sport" doesn't pay the bills, skating does. He is always invited/contracted to skate in USA, so thats where he must go to earn money.

If the reporters who call him a "traitor" had no job in their field in Russia, they would have to re-locate to earn money/pay their bills as well. "Re-locating for a job" doesn't mean you don't love/support your country.

 

[bloozywoozy]

The difference is the amount of money the russians(with more titles) get compared to the americans and canadians

I thought it was the "skater with more titles" & / or popularity that get bigger bucks, regardless of nationality. And Alexei is very popular, AND he has the titles,lol. He was 2nd in popularity (to Scott Hamilton) for a recent SOI survey.

 

[Vitacus]

Nothing wrong with skating for the big money in US. No body disagree with that. Some of ppl here just talking about shouldn't bite the hand feed you. But that's may be too much to ask for some. That's all.

Ok, I fail to see the negative in what they said...they only stated they're happy where they are (in Russia), so why change? Doesn't make sense to permanently move to live and train in the US if there's no need to (such as poor training conditins etc.).

For example, Plushenko recieved many offers to permanently move and train in the US...they (USFSA? or other?) offered him excellent training facilities in Florida, appartment/house, probably a lot of money etc, but he declined.

Also, I don't think they need to praise the US over their own home country, just because they tour with COI or SOI. They've said some very nice things about the US, the people, cities, the tour, training facilities etc to the press (though I've mostly read Plushenko's comments so can't really say about all the others). Russian skaters are not known for much a$$ kissing, which probably is what everyone is whining about here? Not sure what everyone expects them to do that they haven't done already?

Come on, these skaters worked their way to the top without any help from NA. Personally, I think they've done an excellent job on the tours...what more can one ask for?