Asada v. Tuktamysheva: 2015-16

[drivingmissdaisy]

It's too bad Liza is struggling with her consistency this year. She looked tentative going into that 3A, as if she couldn't decide whether to do a double or triple. Hopefully she can produce another strong LP and pull up into 2nd, as I think the LP will be a big challenge for Julia.

 

[FlattFan]

Liza's jumps are similar to Kostner's. Correct technique but a lot of stalking and not very consistent. Now, if she can become Kostner and have good programs year after year, I might become a huge fan.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

Kostner has better posture and better lines going into the jumps. Actually for 3Lz, Gracie's is better than Tuk's and Kostner's.

Gracie can still do it in a triple triple combination. The other two have not shown that capability in their last two seasons.

 

[FlattFan]

Kostner has better posture and better lines going into the jumps. Actually for 3Lz, Gracie's is better than Tuk's and Kostner's.

Gracie can still do it in a triple triple combination. The other two have not shown that capability in their last two seasons.

Huh? Kostner did 3F-3T in 2013 W, 2014 Olympics, 2014 W. All big events. What more can you ask for? And she had been doing that triple triple combo for more than 10 YEARS.
If anything, Kostner has shown much more consistency than both Gracie and Liza combined.

 

[Jammers]

Huh? Kostner did 3F-3T in 2013 W, 2014 Olympics, 2014 W. All big events. What more can you ask for? And she had been doing that triple triple combo for more than 10 YEARS.
If anything, Kostner has shown much more consistency than both Gracie and Liza combined.

I doubt you could say that before the 2011-12 season when Kostner finally started being consistent.

 

[FlattFan]

I doubt you could say that before the 2011-12 season when Kostner finally started being consistent.

Even when she was inconsistent, she did a lot of 3F-3T. 2007 W, 2008 W. Only 2009-2010 season, she was a mess, but she managed to put in a 3F-3T at Euro championship. If you go back to 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, she always did 3F-3T in almost all competitions.

In 2011 season and on, she switched to 3T-3T, and was doing them regularly.

That's a lot of 3x3 spanning over 10 years. Not many people can do 3x3 that long.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

Huh? Kostner did 3F-3T in 2013 W, 2014 Olympics, 2014 W. All big events. What more can you ask for? And she had been doing that triple triple combo for more than 10 YEARS.
If anything, Kostner has shown much more consistency than both Gracie and Liza combined.

Lutz. Not flip. Lutz toe, not flip toe.

 

[David21]

Lutz. Not flip. Lutz toe, not flip toe.

That's right but she did 3Lutz-3Toe in the past and you cannot hold what you have posted against when there is no bonus under IJS to make a triple-triple with lutz instead of with a flip (when you do the respective other jump also in the program).

Kostner has better posture and better lines going into the jumps. Actually for 3Lz, Gracie's is better than Tuk's and Kostner's.

Kostner IMO has a better lutz than Gracie when she actually hits it.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Kostner IMO has a better lutz than Gracie when she actually hits it.

Her lutz is a beauty, and I think she hit almost every lutz she attempted during the 12-13 and 13-14 seasons.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

Her lutz is a beauty, and I think she hit almost every lutz she attempted during the 12-13 and 13-14 seasons.

And not a single one in a triple triple combination.

Gracie did it in triple triple for 3+ seasons.

 

[FlattFan]

In the current rule, if you use 3F-3T or 3Lz-3T as one jumping pass, your program should come out to be the same. Gracie can't do 3F-3T to save her life either.
Wait until Gracie does 3Lz-3T 2 Olympics from now, then we can say for sure she's better than Kostner.

A lot of kids can do 3x3, but how many can do 3x3 at 25? Wrong technique will catch up. That's all.

 

[Layback11]

In the current rule, if you use 3F-3T or 3Lz-3T as one jumping pass, your program should come out to be the same. Gracie can't do 3F-3T to save her life either.

She did one at 2012 Rostelecom: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gprus2012/gprus2012_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

Edge-called, but cleanly landed.

 

[yuzushenko]

Mai's programs, especially th me free skate, don't need to be crammed full of transitions. If a skater has great basic skating/skating skill l, I don't need transition after transition because I can just focus on the quality of skating, the flow, the lightness and ease, etc. Her programs aren't completely empty, and the free skate is a good balance of everything.

well look at patrick chan, he's got better skating skills than mao and he still puts in transitions. just because you have a reputation doesn't mean you should just have an empty program and call it "minimalist art."

have you seen fan cams of mao during the FS at sochi? she is shockingly slow. back then she didn't get high PCS, and i would always be surprised as to why that was so until i saw the fancam. the ice is huge around her and yet with her very slow skating she would do nothing to reach out to the audience sitting in the very back. she looks amazing on camera, but in reality that just isn't so.

it's not as if mao was ever phenomenal before when it came to transitions and skating skills, her knees are a bit stiff at times. they have a soft bend but not a deep bend. no speed. suddenly now that she's back everyone treats her as if she's some patrick chan level of skating quality. in comparison to the current field, maybe. but there are plenty of ladies rising up that have the speed, jumps, grace, transitions, and skating skills. mao is relying on her reputation for PCS as if she had a great reputation preceding her when it came to SS and TR.

also, mao's jumps aren't great. sure she has a triple axel, but that's it. there is no speed coming out of her jumps. her combination jumps are always puny. plus the under-rotation and edge calls she's prone to.

 

[FlattFan]

Edge-called, but cleanly landed.

That's what I meant. She will never do a good 3F-3T because of her lip.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

No lip at Trophée Bompard

 

[Layback11]

That's what I meant. She will never do a good 3F-3T because of her lip.

Oooooh. I thought you meant she'd fall on it.

 

[Sandpiper]

I am talking about the legacy of the jump in general. How many women did it? You clearly don't need it to win right, but keeping the jump and its legacy. Mao did that, even when it failed, even when people told her to take it out.

In that case, I agree with you. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mao, to keep the triple axel alive for so many years.

I just don't think Liza was necessarily inspired by Mao, or that she wouldn't do the triple axel if Mao didn't do it. She could've been inspired by someone else, or she might just like the challenge. Or maybe Mao did play a big part. We don't know right now.

The first half of Mao's programs this season are full of crossovers to set up jumps. She's great during the Step sequences but lol. Go watch Mao and then watch Rika Hongo or something. Much more transitions! You can see Mao planting a jump from the other side of the rink. Full of crossovers, then probably a mohawk. There's just not much substance.

Tukt's jumps were great last season, until Worlds where she got sloppy because she pretty much knew she could win with just the 3A. step outs, hand downs, ect. I call her jumps unfit because she probably isn't in shape right now to the level she was last season where she could easily land her jumps without problem. once she gets mentally or physically fit again im sure she'll do fine but the way she's looking now shouldn't be considered world quality.

I like Rika, but I don't see how her programs or transitions are in any way better than Mao's.

Liza did not have any hand downs at Worlds. She turned out of two jumps, but the free leg stayed off the ice, so I wouldn't say she had step-outs either. At WTT she fell on one 3A (SP) and popped one loop (LP) but I don't recall any step-outs/hand downs/messiness on the other jumps. It's true she doesn't seem to be on the same form right now, but "she decided to go sloppy 'cause she has 3A now" doesn't seem very likely.

 

[yuzushenko]

No lip at Trophée Bompard

well.. on the slow camera it looked like an outside of edge to be honest... but no edge call, luckily. you're talking about gracie gold right? i root for her but i have to be honest lol.

 

[yuzushenko]

In that case, I agree with you. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mao, to keep the triple axel alive for so many years.

I just don't think Liza was necessarily inspired by Mao, or that she wouldn't do the triple axel if Mao didn't do it. She could've been inspired by someone else, or she might just like the challenge.


I like Rika, but I don't see how her programs or transitions are in any way better than Mao's.

Liza did not have any hand downs at Worlds. She turned out of two jumps, but the free leg stayed off the ice, so I wouldn't say she had step-outs either. At WTT she fell on one 3A (SP) and popped one loop (LP) but I don't recall any step-outs/hand downs/messiness on the other jumps. It's true she doesn't seem to be on the same form right now, but "she decided to go sloppy 'cause she has 3A now" doesn't seem very likely.

well she could have also been tired. but it's kind of like finishing marathon strongly vs barely walking the finishing line. the former is a bit more honorable.

and she did lots of hand downs and 3 turns out of her jumps this season.

 

[David21]

well.. on the slow camera it looked like an outside of edge to be honest...

You are right this was an obvious lip. And of course you're also right with what you posted about Asada.