- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
...we have seen what the other US girls can do the last two seasons. It is not good enough to be competitive...
Hah! Tell it to the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team!
...we have seen what the other US girls can do the last two seasons. It is not good enough to be competitive...
:sheesh:
If Sasha earns it at Nationals she goes to the Olys, there and then she can make your U.S. Ladies Medal dreams come true.
:yes: Your reasoning is impeccable Mathman.
^ Well, let's see. Sarah beat Rachael Flatt last year in her Junior Grand Prix event. Rachael beat Yu-na Kim in the long program at Skate America. Therefore...:yes:
Rachael had pretty easy GP's this season but somehow manged to miss the GPF. Ashley made the GPF and as I predicted she got creamed by Yuna and Miki who were far from their best,
^ Well, let's see. Sarah beat Rachael Flatt last year in her Junior Grand Prix event. Rachael beat Yu-na Kim in the long program at Skate America. Therefore...:yes:
Rachael SHOULD have won the bronze medal at CoC (Korpi skated horribly and was inexplicably rewarded with silver; she should have been 4th).
In my eyes, SASHA was mediocre at her last competition, Worlds 2006, when an easy win was well within reach. .
But even you can understand that a mediocre Sasha won the bronze medal at Worlds.
:
so only when your favorites don't win the system is corrupt?
what I'm saying is that while you agree she was subpar you are happy to announce she made the podium. okay, all well and good, but a subpar performance when it's not Sasha or another favorite - would it also deserve the same score/spot/recognition?
Sasha was given a bit of a gift at worlds, as is the norm in both systems after an olympics. old traditions die hard.
The animated discussion shows how much attention I think Sasha competing at Nationals will bring to the event. It will certainly raise the excitement level even more above what you have with the four ladies who are currently fighting for two spots. For that reason alone I hope she shows up and has respectable skates.
But there seems to be a lot of 6.0 thinking going on. It doesn't matter who beat who in the past, or who was robbed or who got a gift in the past, or how Sashsa compares to any other skater then or now. We don't compare the skaters head to head anymore.
The real unknown IMO is whether Sasha currently has the tools to reach the 180-190 points she needs to make the US podium or the 190-200 points she needs to make the Olympic podium. And can she reach those point levels if her jumps are currently in sad shape, should that actually be the case? If she planned her comeback strategically and been training strategically that is certainly in the realm of possibility. If not, and if she has been working primarily to get back all her triples at the expense of the places she is more likely to get more points then she is in deep dodo.
There is no realistic route to the podium in the Men's event without the two most difficult jumps they do (3A, 4T), but there is a realistic route to the podium in the Ladies event without the two most difficult jumps they do (3Lz, 3F) -- if the skater choose that road. Wish I knew which route Sashsa was attempting to take.
I was happy to point out that Sasha typically had good results in front of Intl judges. You can disagree or interpret it anyway you like.
The same can't be said about our current group of skaters. Except for Alissa, they are still young so the book is still open on them.
Finishing 5th at Worlds 2009 in Rachael's first season at the Senior level isn't a "good result in front of Intl judges"? As for Alissa, her best Worlds finish was 11th in 2009. She was 15th in 2007.
Rachael Flatt won Junior Worlds 2008 at 15. Sasha Cohen finished 6th at JW at 15.
Sasha won her first GP medal, a bronze, in her 4th GP event, in her second season on the GP. Rachael won silver at 2008 COR, her second event, in her first season on the GP.
Try to have some kind of perspective, and do make an attempt to look at historical facts.
I really don't remember much from the Ladies at '06 Worlds except for Kimmie. I haven't watched Sasha, Fumie, or any others lately. I did recently watch Kimmie's LP and still enjoyed it.
I was happy to point out that Sasha typically had good results in front of Intl judges. You can disagree or interpret it anyway you like.
The same can't be said about our current group of skaters. Except for Alissa, they are still young so the book is still open on them.
You are right-Sasha has always gotten good marks from the judges even when she stumbles. At 2006 Worlds, arguably one of her worst performances/competitions, she still managed a total score of 181.29, 2 points less than her Olympic total which many seem to think was such a great performance. The other competition from that season, TEB, she had a total score of 175.12. Now, COP has changed quite a bit, and if she skated exactly the same today, she would lose 6-8 points over all (taken into account there is now one less spin in the LP, about 3.5-4 points worth, and an "e" call on the flutz in both SP and LP, so another 2-4 points depending upon how severe the judges viewed that flutz). So, just the TEB score would dip Sasha under 170. US Ladies seem to end up in the 160 to low 170's range, and these scores would have 2006 Sasha right at the top with probably upper 170's.
The problem is the elite skaters are scoring in the 180-90's, 200 being the targeted score, the "6.0" so to speak. Sasha is a gifted spinner and spiraler, and always had a nice FW section. She could at the most score 20 points on non-jump elements if she were to get +GOE on all those elements. A bare jump layout of a few "decent" triples would be:
2ax
3sal
3t
3sal/2t x
3t/2t x
2ax x
2ax/2t/2lp x
....34.99 start value. Her start value for jumps in 2005-06 was 40 points. So unless she lands each jump pass CLEANLY, Sasha would need to raise her PCS to 66 to maintain that same Olympics/Worlds score. Not sure that is possible, so she needs a flip/lutz, this layout won't cut it.
For all we know, Sasha could be landing all her triples and the biggest "problem" is rotating the back end of a 3fl/3t combo! This is all speculation, janetfan, not so much bashing if Sasha ever could skate, land a jump, ever hit a deep edge, could outskate a snail etc, etc. We can only go by the few rumors that spill out. "Aunt Joyce" also reported earlier this year that Michelle was impressing USFSA officials during her practices and had all her triples back. I will always wonder if that was true, and if Michelle really did stop, think-"My body will not last rigorous training for the next 8 months, and I won't be a front runner for Gold, so I am not going to chance it." I just don't think Sasha will be back unless she truly feels she can contend for Gold at the Olympics. She has to know she could win Nationals with the above jump layout, say she only has one fall and her non-jump elements are perfectly done so that she gets all +1GOE's-she'll easily hit at the very least 50 for TES, and you know National judges will award her like a 65 in PCS, which gives her a 115 in the LP. But that sort of layout won't cut it Internationally for Gold.
You are right-Sasha has always gotten good marks from the judges even when she stumbles. At 2006 Worlds, arguably one of her worst performances/competitions, she still managed a total score of 181.29, 2 points less than her Olympic total which many seem to think was such a great performance. The other competition from that season, TEB, she had a total score of 175.12. Now, COP has changed quite a bit, and if she skated exactly the same today, she would lose 6-8 points over all (taken into account there is now one less spin in the LP, about 3.5-4 points worth, and an "e" call on the flutz in both SP and LP, so another 2-4 points depending upon how severe the judges viewed that flutz). So, just the TEB score would dip Sasha under 170. US Ladies seem to end up in the 160 to low 170's range, and these scores would have 2006 Sasha right at the top with probably upper 170's.
The problem is the elite skaters are scoring in the 180-90's, 200 being the targeted score, the "6.0" so to speak.