Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[Marin]

I think he probably won't because Japan has only 2 Worlds spots and they will want to put other skaters out there.

They have 3 spots for 4cc, so sending Yuzuru is quite possible, also if we take into consideration the fact that he still hasn't got 4CC title.

 

[Rissa]

They have 3 spots for 4cc, so sending Yuzuru is quite possible, also if we take into consideration the fact that he still hasn't got 4CC title.

Good point. Yuzuru will probably want to test his programs again before Worlds too. So there's actually good chance, I suppose.

 

[xibsuarz]

Good point. Yuzuru will probably want to test his programs again before Worlds too. So there's actually good chance, I suppose.

I think it would be less likely that we see Patrick at 4CC, he has already won that title many times and he may want to focus on Worlds. I would think that he'll leave it to Nam to stand up for Canada at 4CC.

 

[Marin]

I think it would be less likely that we see Patrick at 4CC, he has already won that title many times and he may want to focus on Worlds. I would think that he'll leave it to Nam to stand up for Canada at 4CC.

Agree about Patrick,I don't think he will go. He already won 4CC in 2009 and 2012 .

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The only jump I think suffers are his Lutzes (that he had some wonky problems with last season) and occasionally the flip. The loop and especially the Axels (he will almost NEVER miss those and, while Han's are great, Yuzu's are collectively the best in the men's discipline) in the second half are typically of the highest quality. Also, for me–when he's on–his quads are superior to Patrick's as well in terms of how effortless they look. It's incredible.

Well, that's 3 jumping passes. I also disagree that Hanyu's quad toe is superior to Chan's (particularly when Chan adds a 3T to his). 4 jumping passes if you include the 4S which he's only ever landed 5 times cleanly (a couple of those wild landings at that).

I know it's not worth the points but I'd like to see Hanyu attempt a quad-triple, which several of the other top guys do. Although until that gets some sort of bonus I doubt we will see it.

 

[Marin]

Well, that's 3 jumping passes. I also disagree that Hanyu's quad toe is superior to Chan's (particularly when Chan adds a 3T to his). 4 jumping passes if you include the 4S which he's only ever landed 5 times cleanly (a couple of those wild landings at that).

I know it's not worth the points but I'd like to see Hanyu attempt a quad-triple, which several of the other top guys do. Although until that gets some sort of bonus I doubt we will see it.

He has 2 stellar axel combos in the second half, no need for 4-3, It will give him nothing tbh

 

[HanDomi]

Well, that's 3 jumping passes. I also disagree that Hanyu's quad toe is superior to Chan's (particularly when Chan adds a 3T to his). 4 jumping passes if you include the 4S which he's only ever landed 5 times cleanly (a couple of those wild landings at that).

I know it's not worth the points but I'd like to see Hanyu attempt a quad-triple, which several of the other top guys do. Although until that gets some sort of bonus I doubt we will see it.

if yes, then I would likely want to see it in SP, I think his both 3A combos in Fs are brilliant and no need to change that especially

 

[Li'Kitsu]

if yes, then I would likely want to see it in SP, I think his both 3A combos in Fs are brilliant and no need to change that especially

Maybe he's planing to go for a 4T-3T in the 2nd half of the SP next season anyway? It would make sense to go with 4T3T and 3Lz given his problems with the lutz in his SP, and if he misses the first jumping pass he can still add the 3T to the 3Lz anyway. (I know Hanyu hasn't landed any 4T3T combo as of yet, but the last time he tried was also 4 seasons ago...)

Well, that's 3 jumping passes. I also disagree that Hanyu's quad toe is superior to Chan's (particularly when Chan adds a 3T to his). 4 jumping passes if you include the 4S which he's only ever landed 5 times cleanly (a couple of those wild landings at that).

How does Hanyus 4S 'suffer' compared to Chans, when Chan doesn't even have one? When Hanyu lands his 4S (and he got better with it last season, so at least there's improvement), it's of the same quality as his and PChans 4T (+2 to +3 range). He's not going to lose the GOE comparison to PChan because of his 4S.

 

[Sorrento]

I also disagree that Hanyu's quad toe is superior to Chan's (particularly when Chan adds a 3T to his).

I have this strange perception of 4T+3T, you know, very few guys succeded this combo during the last couple of seasons, who do I remember doing it: Chan, Menshov, Ten (??? not sure), Machida, Kovtun, Mura- I don't find this combo exciting. This combo (though it's a tough one, I mean- 7 full rotations with 1 landing in between) looks a bit old-fashioned to me. Cause this 4T has been around for so long in figure skating, we got used to it. 4T+3T- wow, well, top skaters were using it even a few cycles ago. Whereas new quads seem to be more excting, those who jump them in combo seem to be the new heroes (Boyang, I'm eyeing you from here, hallo!). I even find that 2 different thriple jump combos are more interesting than those 3T+3T.
So I don't want Yuzuru to spend time on mastering 4T+3T, especially for the second part of the LP. No need to kill stamina for nothing. His diversity in jumps field is the key to success, he really needs to fix the Lz and make it in successfully landed combos.
Also I find Yuzuru's 4T execution spectacular, he way he goes into the jump and lands it- it's my personal guilty pleasure to watch.

 

[4everchan]

i think that 3A-3T has been around even longer… i find this odd that you say those combos are old-fashioned looking…. all jumps have been around for ages… i am not sure why people argue here…. what matters most is that a skater succeeds his layout… hanyu will probably include a layout that has a higher BV. that's great… but will he land everything? many people here feel that he won't based on what we have seen in the last couple seasons… others think Chan's jumps are behind him… and that he won't land his 3A…

I say, let's see what happens…. these two skaters are the best in the world… they will adjust as necessary… they will make sure they earn as many points as they can possibly do…

as for new quads… I will be excited when i see the first 4flip

I have this strange perception of 4T+3T, you know, very few guys succeded this combo during the last couple of seasons, who do I remember doing it: Chan, Menshov, Ten (??? not sure), Machida, Kovtun, Mura- I don't find this combo exciting. This combo (though it's a tough one, I mean- 7 full rotations with 1 landing in between) looks a bit old-fashioned to me. Cause this 4T has been around for so long in figure skating, we got used to it. 4T+3T- wow, well, top skaters were using it even a few cycles ago. Whereas new quads seem to be more excting, those who jump them in combo seem to be the new heroes (Boyang, I'm eyeing you from here, hallo!). I even find that 2 different thriple jump combos are more interesting than those 3T+3T.
So I don't want Yuzuru to spend time on mastering 4T+3T, especially for the second part of the LP. No need to kill stamina for nothing. His diversity in jumps field is the key to success, he really needs to fix the Lz and make it in successfully landed combos.
Also I find Yuzuru's 4T execution spectacular, he way he goes into the jump and lands it- it's my personal guilty pleasure to watch.

 

[xibsuarz]

I've always thought that the quad-triple combinations need a bit more reward when landed greatly that what COP offers now. And if there's something Patrick and Yuzuru excel at, is making the system work in their favor. So unless the quad-triple gets better rewards, I don't think Yuzuru will go for it. And as people said before, it's best for him to save his 3T for the 3A, rather than risk it in the 4T. His 4T is great but his 3A is much more reliable. The 4T-3T is Patrick's money jump, so he is not going to drop that.
As for personal taste (repeat, PERSONAL) in 4T, I think they have the best 4T in the current field. I like Yuzuru's fast rotations and air position, and Patrick has a great landing (how else would he add the 3T?).

 

[Sorrento]

i think that 3A-3T has been around even longer…

For me this combo is magical. My previous hearted champion had axel problems so I am happy that my current hearted champion Mr. Hanyu performs it amazingly well. I am basically fond of a beautiful jumps execution, I don't like strange legs positions in the air and shaky landings. So whoever does it beautiful both entering into it, rotating and landing it effortless is my great super hero.
I too can't wait to see what happens in the reality. I mean all of the assuptions are made based on past experiences but who knows what future brings? Can't wait to see Patrick's LP at Japan Open.

 

[HanDomi]

I think Hanyu's 3A-1lo-3S is more beatifull than 3A3T. I mean mostly when someone does 1lo in combo it looks like step out, but Hanyu does it with amazing flow and keeping speed trough all elements of this combo that it is looking great

 

[4everchan]

yup yuzu is best with edge jumps… chan is best with toe pick jumps

I think Hanyu's 3A-1lo-3S is more beatifull than 3A3T. I mean mostly when someone does 1lo in combo it looks like step out, but Hanyu does it with amazing flow and keeping speed trough all elements of this combo that it is looking great

 

[Marin]

How does Hanyus 4S 'suffer' compared to Chans, when Chan doesn't even have one?

Actually I don't think Hanyu is bad at lutz, just imagine who will put his worst jump at the end of his program? his LP is insanely difficult and he is always fatigue by that time so that is the issue imo.
As for SP, some of musicians and I remember even Jeff admitted that Chopin Ballade N1 is very difficult melody for executing jumps, especially timing for 3LZ3T, it's very difficult to hit these jumps on 2 consecutive notes . If we remember his 2012/2013/2014 seasons his combo was always there. Even on WTT gala when he lacked training and he performed PW, his 3 lz3T was still good, so that really makes me think about the note timing issue in Ch.B1. Anyways we will see both of them in competitions very soon

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

yup yuzu is best with edge jumps… chan is best with toe pick jumps

As simplified as this assessment is, I'd say it's pretty accurate.

 

[Ophelia]

I think Hanyu's 3A-1lo-3S is more beatifull than 3A3T. I mean mostly when someone does 1lo in combo it looks like step out, but Hanyu does it with amazing flow and keeping speed trough all elements of this combo that it is looking great

This. I always mistake a 1lo for a mistake unless it's Hanyu doing it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

How does Hanyus 4S 'suffer' compared to Chans, when Chan doesn't even have one? When Hanyu lands his 4S (and he got better with it last season, so at least there's improvement), it's of the same quality as his and PChans 4T (+2 to +3 range). He's not going to lose the GOE comparison to PChan because of his 4S.

Sorry I didn't mean in comparison to Chan, I was commenting on Hanyu having a weaker lutz/flip, and how that essentially means 3 jumping passes, and his 4S having not the greatest GOE (unless he nails it, which has only happened a few times thus far). So in a sense even though Chan tries an easier layout, his GOE is often higher than Hanyu's (except on the axel jumping passes).

 

[Sorrento]

I think Hanyu's 3A-1lo-3S is more beatifull than 3A3T. I mean mostly when someone does 1lo in combo it looks like step out, but Hanyu does it with amazing flow and keeping speed trough all elements of this combo that it is looking great

He's the only skater who does this combo so that I can truly admire it. I can't see the beauty of it when perfomed by any other skater in the world, both in the men and ladies fields. Not exactly this combo, any one with a lo inside.

 

[Rissa]

So unless the quad-triple gets better rewards, I don't think Yuzuru will go for it. And as people said before, it's best for him to save his 3T for the 3A, rather than risk it in the 4T.

There IS a reward for quad-triple for Hanyu: significantly higher base value in SP. The fact that he moved his quad to the second half of the program in SP and that he'll be doing 4T-2T in the second half of LP all point to him planning to add another quad in SP. If that happens his SP combo is most likely going to be 4T-3T. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how he'd deal with that. It's such a shame that he's planning to retire at 23, who knows what else he would feel compelled to squeeze into his programs in his drive to up his tech every season.

He's the only skater who does this combo so that I can truly admire it. I can't see the beauty of it when perfomed by any other skater in the world, both in the men and ladies fields. Not exactly this combo, any one with a lo inside.

There are a few juniors who do that combo smoothly and don't look like they've made a mistake and stumbled over something, but I also think that Yuzu's best, especially last season when that combo was impressively choreographed with perfect synchrony with music and Yuzu jumped it perfectly in the note. :yes: