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Is this a direct quote from Patrick or are you "interpreting" what he is saying?You mean how he honestly said Yuzuru and Javier are only jumps and aren't challenging themselves, while he would?
Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16
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You mean how he honestly said Yuzuru and Javier are only jumps and aren't challenging themselves, while he would?
When did he say these things?
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winter/figureskating/patrick-chan-finds-perspective-in-year-of-adventure-1.3062263
li'kitsu highly paragraphed it, but you could kinda agree with her point... the interpretation is up to you
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http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015/05/05/patrick-chan-figure-skating-comeback-olympics-canada/
I'm assuming Kitsu is referring to this but there could be another one. There's no "interpreting" here, just his words.
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Thanks for all the links. For me, as a Patrick fan what jumps out at me are these quotes:
"At this point, especially myself, I look to a skater who is pushing the boundaries program-wise." (I recalled that he paid homage to Papadakis and Cizeron)
"I want to skate a program that I can get off the ice and say 'I'm proud of what I just did,' " he said. (Imo he did that at SC!)
The emphasis is with the word "I".
However, imo, the quote by Li'Kitsu is conflation. Combining different thoughts to get a new meaning.
"At this point, especially myself, I look to a skater who is pushing the boundaries program-wise." (I recalled that he paid homage to Papadakis and Cizeron)
"I want to skate a program that I can get off the ice and say 'I'm proud of what I just did,' " he said. (Imo he did that at SC!)
The emphasis is with the word "I".
However, imo, the quote by Li'Kitsu is conflation. Combining different thoughts to get a new meaning.
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Yes, pretty much this, thanks for posting. Specifically:
"That in itself says a lot, the fact that I skimmed through it,” said Chan, who won the 2011, 2012 and 2013 World Championships before being toppled by Hanyu at the Sochi Olympics. “It wasn’t because I dislike them. … I admire a lot of elements of their programs, it’s just that that’s what it is. I literally fast-forwarded to their jumps, their biggest jumps, and then that’s it. I stopped watching. … Their skating hasn’t changed. It doesn’t look like it’s any different. They’re skating to the same pieces of music style. Javi has that like a Charlie Chaplin style. It totally works for him. It’s great, but I’d like to see him do a classical piece."
And the original link I had was this.
Here you get the additional part of: "Even though Fernandez skated to the Barber of Seville, Chan feels that Fernandez still exhibited very much a Charlie Chaplin style, which “totally works for him.” Chan says he’d love to see him do classical pieces. “Just because that’s what I would do if I was in that position,” he said. “I would challenge myself and do that.”"
If you think I just twisted his words, tell me how... but even if Patrick often just gets his actual words blown out of proportions, that's a clear moment of :dumb: for me.
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blueberryhill said:
Erm... you just talked about 2 completely different parts in that interview than I did. No conflation involved
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Did you ignore the first half of his statements? People can't twist these words...
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With all due respect, I'm not twisting anything. With the Beverley Smith article, he clearly praises his competitors but he also expresses his opinions of what he doesn't like. And as this forum clearly shows, opinions are like hineys, everybody's got one - even Patrick Chan.
Now to return to "You mean how he honestly said Yuzuru and Javier are only jumps and aren't challenging themselves, while he would?" let's just agree to disagree. I see where he/she is coming from but given that Patrick likes some aspects of their skating I don't think it is a complete statement. In other words Patrick want to challenge himself with his own artistic version.
For example I can highlight totally different parts where he is complimentary:
"That in itself says a lot, the fact that I skimmed through it,” said Chan, who won the 2011, 2012 and 2013 World Championships before being toppled by Hanyu at the Sochi Olympics. “It wasn’t because I dislike them. … I admire a lot of elements of their programs, it’s just that that’s what it is. I literally fast-forwarded to their jumps, their biggest jumps, and then that’s it. I stopped watching. … Their skating hasn’t changed. It doesn’t look like it’s any different. They’re skating to the same pieces of music style. Javi has that like a Charlie Chaplin style. It totally works for him. It’s great, but I’d like to see him do a classical piece."(Patrick's opinion)
Earlier I tried to edit my post to include this:
With that, Chan turned his attention to his afternoon of sky diving.
It seems that the earlier comments were just quick thoughts to questions that were posed of him. I don't get the sense that Patrick sets out with an agenda to bash his competitors. He was there to talk about his sabbatical.
I find the Japanese press much more respectful than the North American press. This is just the hand that Patrick was dealt with. But just think, if Patrick stopped giving interviews, what would all of you talk about?
Now to return to "You mean how he honestly said Yuzuru and Javier are only jumps and aren't challenging themselves, while he would?" let's just agree to disagree. I see where he/she is coming from but given that Patrick likes some aspects of their skating I don't think it is a complete statement. In other words Patrick want to challenge himself with his own artistic version.
For example I can highlight totally different parts where he is complimentary:
"That in itself says a lot, the fact that I skimmed through it,” said Chan, who won the 2011, 2012 and 2013 World Championships before being toppled by Hanyu at the Sochi Olympics. “It wasn’t because I dislike them. … I admire a lot of elements of their programs, it’s just that that’s what it is. I literally fast-forwarded to their jumps, their biggest jumps, and then that’s it. I stopped watching. … Their skating hasn’t changed. It doesn’t look like it’s any different. They’re skating to the same pieces of music style. Javi has that like a Charlie Chaplin style. It totally works for him. It’s great, but I’d like to see him do a classical piece."(Patrick's opinion)
Earlier I tried to edit my post to include this:
With that, Chan turned his attention to his afternoon of sky diving.
It seems that the earlier comments were just quick thoughts to questions that were posed of him. I don't get the sense that Patrick sets out with an agenda to bash his competitors. He was there to talk about his sabbatical.
I find the Japanese press much more respectful than the North American press. This is just the hand that Patrick was dealt with. But just think, if Patrick stopped giving interviews, what would all of you talk about?
^You've highlighted only the comments which support your argument, and totally ignored the dismissive comments before and after those comments. Way to cherry pick to support your thesis. Chan's entire statement is the definition of "back-handed compliment".
Chan needs to either word things more carefully or have a PR coach sit next to him when he's giving public comments. And before the Chan supporters jump on me and call me a ~*hater*~, I'll say that skating wise, I think Chan is exquisite.
Chan needs to either word things more carefully or have a PR coach sit next to him when he's giving public comments. And before the Chan supporters jump on me and call me a ~*hater*~, I'll say that skating wise, I think Chan is exquisite.
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You just picked like half a sentence to use for your 'defense' and completely ignored the 2nd half of it
The elements in their programs he admires are the jumps - geez, he says afterwards he fast-forwarded through the other stuff to their jumps! (their big jumps at that). Again: he fast-forwarded through their programs to their jumps. That's not being critical or expressing an opinion of what he doesn't like (how can he, if he thinks it wasn't worth watching?), it's down right disrespectful.
And trying to twist that into 'he's praising his competitors' is a flat out "what?" to me. Nobody's saying that Patrick is generally a bad guy, but those specific comments were disrespectful. You gotta wear some BIG fan glasses to not see that.
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In all honesty, if it was another skater saying the same thing about Patrick I don't think I'd have a problem with it but that's just me. The Sochi ogm medallist in pairs allegedly said many things about last years' world gold medalists and I didn't post/argue/fixate on it. I just couldn't care less. What I do not like are blatant lies.
When I first discovered skating forums I just loved to "lurk and learn" and have done so for nearly a decade. It has sunk to a place where it is necessary to bash others to elevate your own.
I guess Patrick should just learn to lie and say what everybody wants him to say. Problem solved.
When I first discovered skating forums I just loved to "lurk and learn" and have done so for nearly a decade. It has sunk to a place where it is necessary to bash others to elevate your own.
I guess Patrick should just learn to lie and say what everybody wants him to say. Problem solved.
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Frankly, meh. OK, when this article first came out I may have thrown an "Oh, Patrick, you did it again" into the discussion. But it is hard to get worked up over an athlete saying, "You guys suck, I'm going to show you how it's done -- oh, sorry, I mean, you guys are wonderful, but I'm still going to show you how its done."
I'm not going to say that you are completely wrong with what you are saying, because many discussions on forums do get to that level. But you have chosen a really unfortunate time and place to make this point. In this example, nobody is twisting Patrick's words, because there is no need for any twisting. He simply wasn't very smart with his answer here and said something that was rather insulting. He said he fast-forwarded to their big jumps and didn't actually watch the rest of their programs. But then he went ahead and judged it anyway. Unless he's psychic, I find it hard to imagine how he can judge something that he hasn't seen. It's like me saying that I don't like you hairdo. How would I know? I haven't seen it, I can't judge.
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A person decides where to set the goal post. He may set it near enough to reach and then move it forward or he may set it too far to see or reach, and then there is anything in between. There are immediate goals and then there is an ultimate goal.
A skater may put in a program that he thinks is possible by the end of the season, so it is really not possible just yet, and there is a risk of not achieving it. Well, then there is next year. Or he may skate a program at the limit of his current possibility and adjust that limit along the way. Different strategies. It still comes down to what is executed and performed at the competition ice.
In Hanyu's case, setting those goal posts far enabled him to get Olympic gold. He won due to higher BV. And this time, as lilahozi noted, that goal post is pretty frickin' far, because it's in 2018. I don't think "adjusting along the way" would be an effective strategy against the Boyang Jins and Shoma Unos because then you might end up trying out new layouts at more important competitions.
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come on guys… how can a very nice post from specs, showing the post competition hug, can lead to like 3 pages of chan bashing… ??? i read the articles just like everyone else and to me it means:
"I am sky diving and doing lots of exciting things on my year off. Enjoying not being a competitive skater"
"I skimmed through the programs but the sport hasn't evolved since I have left it…" (and actually that is TRUE… there were no real enhancement in technical skills or a breakout program last year in the men's competition, as opposed to Liza's 3A, P/C great free dance or D/R upgrades in technical elements…in the men, it was same old, same old…
where is he saying that the skaters are bad? nowhere… he is simply saying that it wasn't a crazy year for men…
but of course, if you are a chan hater, bash bash away…
"I am sky diving and doing lots of exciting things on my year off. Enjoying not being a competitive skater"
"I skimmed through the programs but the sport hasn't evolved since I have left it…" (and actually that is TRUE… there were no real enhancement in technical skills or a breakout program last year in the men's competition, as opposed to Liza's 3A, P/C great free dance or D/R upgrades in technical elements…in the men, it was same old, same old…
where is he saying that the skaters are bad? nowhere… he is simply saying that it wasn't a crazy year for men…
but of course, if you are a chan hater, bash bash away…
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