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LOLOLOL No, no. We're just joking around. Though it would be an interesting dynamic. Only Patrick knows if he needs an additional coach. I personally don't think it would hurt to consult with a technical coach...
Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16
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LOLOLOL No, no. We're just joking around. Though it would be an interesting dynamic. Only Patrick knows if he needs an additional coach. I personally don't think it would hurt to consult with a technical coach...
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LOLOLOL No, no. We're just joking around. Though it would be an interesting dynamic. Only Patrick knows if he needs an additional coach. I personally don't think it would hurt to consult with a technical coach...[/QUOTE
People......I am way too old to handle jokes like this. My nerves are frayed to the bitter ends with my favs out and Gracie turning into a late season head case. I can take no more.
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Ehhh... I said too that Yuzu was in great form and would beat Patrick at the GPF again. And I can't even count the number of people who did too. Yuzuru has a lot of trouble with injuries, but if he's healthy, he's arguably more reliable than any other of the top men - not perfect and breaking judging systems, but he wouldn't have needed that to beat Patricks WRs.
Especially Patrick should know that. After 2013 worlds, Yuzuru decided it was time to eat Patrick's SP world record again and that's what cost Patrick the OGM. Especially he should have been aware of the possibility of Yuzu pulverizing his WRs.
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Define "pull it together". Given the technical arsenal he has, I thought it was obvious he didn't need to be completely perfect to beat Patrick.
(And don't declare him consistent yet, okay?
)People are always doubting everyone because complaining is more fun. And how is he more "hot and cold" than anybody else?
"Pull it together" meaning skate to his potential and not splat all over the place. He had the technical arsenal last year, but wasn't able to skate it cleanly due to circumstances beyond his control.
"Hot and cold" is factual, not relational to the rest of the field. Hanyu usually skates one of his programs well and not the other one.
"Hot and cold" is factual, not relational to the rest of the field. Hanyu usually skates one of his programs well and not the other one.
He usually skates both of his programs well in at least 3 competitions per season. It's just that he often has 1 fall in his performance, and the 4S has been his nemesis from 2012-2014. So people often think he doesn't skate his LP well. But really, other than the fall on the 4S or 3lz, he skated his LP pretty well for the past 3 seasons. The 2 GP competitions are where he usually gives subpar performances, usually in both programs, not just one. From 2012-2014, he had less issues with his SP than his LP, but that's because he didn't include any problematic jumps in the SP in those 2 season and he included an inconsistent jump, 4S in the LP. Last season, he had problems with 3lz-3t in the SP, so he didn't skate his SP better than his LP in that season (usually equally good or equally bad). He may seem "hot and cold" to fans, but in reality, that depends more on whether he includes any inconsistent jumps in the program.
The only competitions he really splat all over the place is the LP at 2012 Skate America and the LP at 2014 Cup of China.
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But the fact if he can beat Patrick is relational to the field 
I'm still at the point of Patrick having no chance to forsee Yuzu's potential to leave him in the dust... He shouldn't have needed to see anything from last season even to know that. A lot of people let SC this season deceive them, IMO.
PS: also regarding Yuzu being inconsistent... he is no more so than the other guys. He had 5 clean SPs in a row in 2013-14. Already 3 clean SPs in 2012-13 (although he absolutely crashed at worlds). I don't think any of the other men is close to something like that.
I'm still at the point of Patrick having no chance to forsee Yuzu's potential to leave him in the dust... He shouldn't have needed to see anything from last season even to know that. A lot of people let SC this season deceive them, IMO.
PS: also regarding Yuzu being inconsistent... he is no more so than the other guys. He had 5 clean SPs in a row in 2013-14. Already 3 clean SPs in 2012-13 (although he absolutely crashed at worlds). I don't think any of the other men is close to something like that.
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i think you guys need to answer max.. not me... i don't think chan needs nor wants a new coach right now... and i like that he has a dance coach.... she has brought a lot of emotion in his skating... so why go to someone standard, even if he is AWESOME... Patrick doesn't need nor want a skating wife or brother... he likes doing his own stuff... so i hope people will stop mentioning he needs another coach... 
No, he can't. He already has so many skaters, he's going to pretty much all events. He has other skaters then Yuzu and Javi too.
And I'm not sure Nam would like a perpetual SC stuation where he gets constantly shoved aside for the "returning Canadian champ".
And the most important argument: Yuzu might like it, but don't make Javi jealous. Yuzu is his skating wife, no sharing!
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LOL BEST POST OF THIS THREAD... 1550 posts into it I AM ROLLING ON THE FLOOR... thank you HanDomi as well...
I AM ROLLING ON THE FLOOR... thank you HanDomi as well...
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Everyone knows - or should know - that Yuzu always starts the season "okay" (okay as in medalling his his GPs) and then starts ramping up at or just after the GPF. As long as he stays healthy, I can't see anyone beating him through 2018. There's really no juniors coming up (yet, at least) with that "special quality" that can even get near him, let alone the other current top seniors like Javier, Shoma, even Denis and Patrick when they're on. If all go clean, these five practically have the top five placements locked (probably even if one or two of them make a mistake).
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Here's the thing about the American Men. They're so unpredictable that it's hard for me to get really excited about them. However, if Adam go's clean with his artistry, I could definitely see him ending up 5th. I NEVER thought Jason would have been fourth last year and he doesn't have anywhere near Adam's BV in his Programs. Unlike those you've listed. Any US Man who breaks into the top 5 will not have the luxury of a mistake. It's going to take a perfect performance and hopefully, since Worlds are on US soil. The crowd will play a BIG factor in motivating our skaters to have the skate of their lives.
Does Nathan Chen have a chance to medal if he goes clean? Ross, Ricky, Alexander, Grant, and that good spinner who's name I can never remember. On paper, the US Men are very deep this season.
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I would guess Nathan would have the best chance of breaking in the top 5, but even in home soil, I think he's going to get dragged down in PCS because he's still in juniors. A podium finish, I think, would have to come at the expense of meltdowns from the top seniors (that I honestly hope it doesn't happen because it's painful to watch) and he would have to be foot-perfect. Perhaps Max could do it, as well.
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Yuzuru looked incredible in the practices at SC. (Not just during the run-throughs. All through the practices). I thought he was in a league by himself, and I'm not a fan. I'm not an anti-fan either. Just a neutral observer when it comes to Yuzuru & Patrick. The feeling in the arena after Hanyu skated his SP was like the air had just been sucked out of the building. Pretty much no one could believe it was that bad. Of course, the crowd was ecstatic with Patrick's clean FS the next day. But I can't imagine anyone watching the practices was predicting Patrick to win that event. (He practiced pretty much like he skated at all his events this season. Popped/fell on stuff early on, then grew stronger--hitting his big combination--as the practice went on).
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Chan doesnt do much for me but i was still excited to see him skate. I saw him on the practices too in barcelona. I think the guy has the texhnique, maybe not to win with a yuzu in beast mode, but his biggest ennemy is his own head. What striked me during the practice was how calm everyone was even with their mistakes but patrick. Multiple time it felt like he would just quit after à bad jump. There was one fall where the crowd actually clapped very hard to encourage him to get up because for a few seconds i really thought he would stay on his knees and throw the towel out. So technical content or not, if he cant get his own head in control i doubt he could win more. Especially when tough mental might be yuzuru's biggest strength
i think you guys need to answer max.. not me... i don't think chan needs nor wants a new coach right now... and i like that he has a dance coach.... she has brought a lot of emotion in his skating... so why go to someone standard, even if he is AWESOME... Patrick doesn't need nor want a skating wife or brother... he likes doing his own stuff... so i hope people will stop mentioning he needs another coach...
Chan must realize by now, including all knowlegeable skate watching enthusiasts and public, that figure skating, especially men's single, has gone forward (improved/well done quads are getting common, and therefore increasing difficult technics are naturally added to all athletes' performances). I heard that one experienced commentator saying that what Patrick did, when he was good, made him a head above all the other top notch skaters, but right now, with this upsurge in quality in quad jumps and connecting footwork varieties, from the other skaters around, and coming up in the junior ranks, what Chan did formerly, when done to maximum quality/consistency, can only just keep him at the same level as the top runners at men's single. And if he ever slips, or made a mistake, he won't have the margin of safety to maintain his superiority over the others, like before.
One must realize that figure skating, like all sports, is a constantly improving saga. The famours saying in sports "That all records are made to be broken" period, is still applicable to figure skating, especially the mens sector. As Hanyu stated he will try doing and perfecting a lutz quad, and expand his quad capability to three or four, in the next few months, (he said that to some media interview, before his new record breaking 330 in the GPF performance), this automatically implies that there is room, tons of it, to improve, for the best skater in the world today.
It is said, again, in another interview, that he spends average of 17 hours a week on training on ice, while other top level skaters do at least 30 or more. The difference in training time again, points to room and possibility for extra improvement for skaters, to develop new skills, and hone their existing ones to more and better consistency levels.
To help a top notch skater, to develop new technical skills, and correct/modify old and existing ones, that top notch skater, Patrick included, needs a master technic specialists. They may be hard to find, and very expensive, more than Chans' former coaches........but someone says, don't worry about saving money before you get to the pinnacle, when you get to the top and stay there, then you can ease up a bit.......but not before. Chen Lu also said, to win you got to be aggressive, not like ZiJun, she's too easy going and nice, she got a point there........have you noticed Hanyu's sammurai look/stare before and after his LP, stunningly aggressive.....eyes angry enough to eat you up. Chen Lu also said, top skaters have to learn to be lonely people, I guess she is talking about her own experience....before she got her World Champion.......but I can see the logic there, it is said a top athlete has to beat himself, time and time again, to reach the pinnacle of his or her sports. And figure skating is the toughest and most difficult to perfect sports in the whole world of sports.
So, please, Patrick, keep your good stuff, and get better ones under your belt!
I always enjoy Chan´s skating skills and the way he floats on the ice. On the other hand I´m not much impressed with his interpretation, it´s his weak link in PCS, in my opinion. And during several years I have agreed with posters who suggest the necessity of an additional technical coach for him....
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IMO The most umbelievable event was that Yuzu had a dramatic and unexpected sort of rebellion to his planned SP layout and took personally an overnight unnegotiable decision to change it after SC FS and right before the Gala, where he immediately started his new layout practice .
Also he took a very big risk and an enormous amount of pressure consciously , there were more or less 3 weeks left to adjust the SP for NHK and two out of three of those weeks Borser was busy with Javi abroad.
It must have been an incredibly hard work in progress, made of daily trials, changes, errors, error correction, not only in terms of jumps but expecially in terms of choreography . I admit I was very scared, even if this is the Yuzuru Hanyu who makes me dream.
It was a sort of starway to the perfect heaven reached in Barcelona, which seems to be Yuzu's lucky city, expecially if related to Yuzu's memorable 4S in both GPF.
The SP only has three jump passes, so there is no room for error. A bad SP really hurts a skater's chance to medal. That's why in general he takes less risk in the SP than in the LP. He didn't include the 4S in the SP last seaosn because his 4S was not a consistent jump. He insisted on including the 4S in the LP for the past 3 seasons because he knew he must master the 4S if he wants to have at least 3 quads in the LP and 2 quads in the SP by the next Olympics. That's also the reason why his past LP performances often appeared to be worse than his SP performances, because he included his inconsistent jumps in the LP, but not in the SP. His struggle with 3lz-3t last season was really not part of his plan. I doubt his intention was to challenge the 3lz-3t. But since his 4S was not consistent to be included in the SP, he was stuck with 3lz-3t last season. His ultimate goal is 2 quads in the SP. So he won't need 3Lz for his SP in the future and there is no reason to get stuck on the 3lz-3t if the 3lz-3t doesn't work in the SP any more and results in invalidated jumps. He doesn't insist on jumps he doesn't need. His 4S has become consistent this season, so he is willing to add 4S to his SP. His new SP layout in fact is less risky than his old layout even though it is technically more difficult because he got rid of both of his problematic jumps, i.e. 4t in the 2nd half and 3lz-3t. Also, if he is planning 3 quads in the LP, he definitely has enough stamina to do a 2-quad SP. If he doesn't have any inconsistent jumps in his program layouts, it is very likely for him to go clean or close to clean. (He still gives subpar performances in the GPs, especially the first GP. That seems to be his pattern. This year is an exception. His 2nd GP is a significant improvement from the first. I think his defeat at Skate Canada motivated him more.) It took Hanyu 3 seasons to get his 4t consistent and another 3 seasons to get his 4S consistent. If he didn't have as many health issues last season, perhaps his 4S would've been more consistent last season. I just hope he can get his 4Lo consistent in less time (3 seasons is too long). I think it is very possible since he is physically and mentally much more mature now.
I think many people underestimated Hanyu's talent. He is a prodigy and once in a life time talent. I thought this is so obvious even a few years ago, when he was just a teenager. (IMO, we probably won't see another talent like him for many, many years. I'm actually suprised there are people who don't see Hanyu as an extremely rare talent. ) His progress really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. I would be more shocked if he progressed at a slower rate. In fact, he is behind his own schedule due to the health issues he had last season.
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