Eteri Tutberidze interview 05.05.2017

[moriel]

And Eteri is bashing students years later based on her interpretation of events. I don't understand why people think criticizing her for some of her methods = calling her "evil." I certainly don't think she is evil and I have said many positive things about her too. I respect Mishin for his legacy and for being a great jump coach, but I don't think he is going in a good direction with his current students and I don't like the way he waters down their programs. Even Orser is not perfect or above criticism. Etc.

Eteri did herself no favors with some of the things she said here, from her own mouth, in 2017. But it doesn't take away from her successes. Mostly I wish she just had the humility to admit that she still has things to learn herself. If she had merely acknowledged Adian's injury and shown even the tiniest bit of regret for what happened to him, it would have been a good start.

Totally agree with that.
Such rational approach is not the case for all people here though.

 

[OniBan]

Russian posters:

Speaking from a cultural perspective, why does it seem like Eteri has more success with girls than boys? Are boys raised to be more rebellious/independent and girls are raised to be more obedient? (This definitely used to be the case in the US, but I think it has really changed over the past few decades. I just wonder if differing socialization of the genders plays a role in how well Eteri's methods work. I'd specifically be fascinated by comparisons/contrasts between her and Mishin, considering Mishin's legacy of success with very headstrong-seeming male skaters.)

actually I am also thinking that rather than 'girls are raised to be more obedient', it is also possible that boys/ men may find it hard to follow and respect a headstrong woman (like Eteri), without feeling demeaned.

 

[andromache]

actually I am also thinking that rather than 'girls are raised to be more obedient', it is also possible that boys/ men may find it hard to follow and respect a headstrong woman (like Eteri), without feeling demeaned.

That's an interesting perspective - especially when you consider the women like Tarasova, Moskvina, and Nina Mozer who have had lots of success working with men (though many have not been in singles.) But I do think younger, attractive women like Eteri and Kori Ade have a harder time (at least in the US, can't speak for Russia).

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Etheri is definitely smart woman, she speaks Russian as a very educated person with great experience and huge imagination. I think the problem of Eteri is that she produces a monstrous competition in her group, and she proposes a training process designed to "survive", and does not reveal the talent of each girl personally. It's as if at schools children were given to solve the most difficult tasks for whole days, and all those who can not cope would be deducted, but at the same time not the most talented girls will survive, but those who perhaps too tired and already do not like skating, or those who overcome better, with injuries. Excessive competition burns talents - look at Tsurskaya. Little girls compete at the skating rink as gladiators in the ring - Eteri rewards the survivor. I'm not going to demonize it, Chinese pairs, for example, live in a much more difficult situation. But it was definitely different when Eteri started - Shelepen and her grandmother described a very friendly training process and personal approach, I'm sure the same thing she did when she coached in America. In the Russian system, Eteri herself constantly has to prove to the federations that she and her students are worthy of money, that is why she organizes gladiatorial fights among the novices. The federation will still need medals because they pay for all the girls, and Eteri should always deliver them medals, otherwise they will get rid of her - she has more enemies in the federation than you think about it. It is not right way, but she can be understood without demonizing. Eventually it delivers great results for many of her students fnd she is definitely passionate about her work, she often tries something new and interesting, especially with the novices - look at the last performances of Shcherbakova and Trusova. Besides she does not ignore the personality of each student, as many posters here think, she knows how to use strengths or at least tries to do

Well said

I especially agree that while her methods may be controversial and successful at the same time the biggest drawback of this competive state is that she is in all likelihood unable to fully reveal the talent of each of her students. She sure has figured out how to maximize their results though. I still respect her and think she is passionate about her coaching.

 

[Seren]

I do think some of the things in their interview are not the most flattering but i don't think it really matters. Eteri is very good at what she does and she sticks to it. She doesn't have a reason not to, it's how she has had so much success. However there are going to be skaters who don't fit that mold and it doesn't mean that the skaters aren't good or hardworking and it doesn't mean that Eteri is 'bad'. Hopefully there can be more understanding of this is the future as she evolves as a coach.

 

[vorravorra]

Yes, that bit about Ilya and Moris was more shocking in a way because they are her current students and still she practically had no good word about either of them. Is it because she thinks them hopeless anyway and doesn't care or hoping to stir a reaction of 'I'll prove you wrong' type?
Frankly I wonder what Simonenko put into her coffee - a truth drug? Though always blatant in hew interviews she never went that far before...

Simonenko is an interviewer who knows how to get controversial things out of people. I remember his post-Worlds interview with Kolyada which was a lot shorter and not much like this, but the way he asks questions - if you are not used to giving interviews, it's easy to fall into traps and say things that will upset people even if you don't mean to (and Eteri obviously meant to).

 

[moriel]

That's an interesting perspective - especially when you consider the women like Tarasova, Moskvina, and Nina Mozer who have had lots of success working with men (though many have not been in singles.) But I do think younger, attractive women like Eteri and Kori Ade have a harder time (at least in the US, can't speak for Russia).

Well, actually that may be a fair point... Russia was the only place where i´ve heard "shut up, you are a woman".
Indeed russia is reasonably patriarchal, and there is a whole bunch of women who believe women should stay at home taking care of kids while men provide stuff, and a whole bunch of men who believe women should be submissive. Sort of a backslash from soviet times, i suppose, when women were *supposed* to work, as not working while being able to was a crime.

 

[vorravorra]

actually I am also thinking that rather than 'girls are raised to be more obedient', it is also possible that boys/ men may find it hard to follow and respect a headstrong woman (like Eteri), without feeling demeaned.

Well, teachers are mostly women and boys don't have a problem with them. I would say that female teachers as a whole have better discipline, it's certainly not a case of boys being more prepared to do what a male teacher tells them. They will do what a good teacher tells them, regardless of gender. But the problem is Eteri kind of isn't. I probably would feel demeaned working in that environment, to be honest, and I am female.

 

[ejnsofi]

Well, actually that may be a fair point... Russia was the only place where i´ve heard "shut up, you are a woman".
Indeed russia is reasonably patriarchal, and there is a whole bunch of women who believe women should stay at home taking care of kids while men provide stuff, and a whole bunch of men who believe women should be submissive. Sort of a backslash from soviet times, i suppose, when women were *supposed* to work, as not working while being able to was a crime.

Actually topic:
Russia and other post-communistic countries promoted higher education among women. In Russia more women studies science subjects than in the UK (I'm talking about percents) and also around 15% of new companies is established by women. There still famous Polish poster promoting engaging women in agriculture work. I guess young. attractive women have it harder everywhere as young women are seen as inexperienced and attractive women are seen as foolish.

And sexist pigs are everywhere. My couchsurfing host from London gave me a lecture why women shouldn't study serious subjects like medicine, law or architecture. Thank God I had some spared money so I could afford some hostel on the next day

 

[moriel]

Actually topic:
Russia and other post-communistic countries promoted higher education among women. In Russia more women studies science subjects than in the UK (I'm talking about percents) and also around 15% of new companies is established by women. There still famous Polish poster promoting engaging women in agriculture work. I guess young. attractive women have it harder everywhere as young women are seen as inexperienced and attractive women are seen as foolish.

And sexist pigs are everywhere. My couchsurfing host from London gave me a lecture why women shouldn't study serious subjects like medicine, law or architecture. Thank God I had some spared money so I could afford some hostel on the next day

topic:
As for sexist pigs...
After Soviet Union ended, there was a sort of a backslash. There is a lot of conservative patriarchal sh*t rising right now, with all the "pro-family", "pro-traditional values" and awful stuff like that. Religion is getting lot of support from state too, so they sneak everywhere bitching about morality, having 10 kids and so on. Particulary, there is a huge government incentive and public opinion pressure for women to have kids. Many kids. Because demographics, you know.
Also, in general, as i said, men are treated as a valuable commodity, and many women want to have pants at home, no matter the quality of those pants. And yeah, there is also the russian saying: "if he beats you, it means he loves you".
So for now, russia was only place where i was:
1. asked to shut up because i´m a woman
2. shamed for being single at 30
3. shamed for not having children at 30
4. shamed for studying too much and being too smart to get a husband
5. shamed for not wearing dresses and skirts
I´ve spent a lot of time in Europe, and I live in Brazil, and both those places are totally 100% better than russia in that regard.

And this is why i will not move back to russia =)

 

[ejnsofi]

topic:
As for sexist pigs...
After Soviet Union ended, there was a sort of a backslash. There is a lot of conservative patriarchal sh*t rising right now, with all the "pro-family", "pro-traditional values" and awful stuff like that. Religion is getting lot of support from state too, so they sneak everywhere bitching about morality, having 10 kids and so on. Particulary, there is a huge government incentive and public opinion pressure for women to have kids. Many kids. Because demographics, you know.
Also, in general, as i said, men are treated as a valuable commodity, and many women want to have pants at home, no matter the quality of those pants. And yeah, there is also the russian saying: "if he beats you, it means he loves you".
So for now, russia was only place where i was:
1. asked to shut up because i´m a woman
2. shamed for being single at 30
3. shamed for not having children at 30
4. shamed for studying too much and being too smart to get a husband
5. shamed for not wearing dresses and skirts
I´ve spent a lot of time in Europe, and I live in Brazil, and both those places are totally 100% better than russia in that regard.

And this is why i will not move back to russia =)

topic:
As of backlash I understand what you're talking about. We have it in Poland too. For example Church got really powerful in last 25 years and we have this "have kids!" business too.

As for points from 1 to 5 I hear it constantly from my aunts. And I'm not even close to be 30 years old

 

[Amei]

Ilya already trashed Julia publicly saying she will grow fat and such and she never responded after many chances. Eteri actually defended her going into Nationals when Mozar and other characters from the fed were publicly dissing Julia. This was right in the middle of their turmoil too. I think Julia has moved on and the only statement I recall is the one were Julia wishes Eteri luck and thanked her for teaching her a lot.

Adian....

I'm still baffled how the Sergei relationship ended so poorly? Seriously....the guy is like the nicest dude ever and wears Woody Woodpecker shirts

Well I hope that Yulia is a bigger person than some of the adults that after she started having poor skating results decided to try and 'kick her when she's down' and that's why she's silent, but part of it may be that up until Yulia says she's retired, she is counting on the Fed for political points and funding.

 

[vorravorra]

topic:
As for sexist pigs...
After Soviet Union ended, there was a sort of a backslash. There is a lot of conservative patriarchal sh*t rising right now, with all the "pro-family", "pro-traditional values" and awful stuff like that. Religion is getting lot of support from state too, so they sneak everywhere bitching about morality, having 10 kids and so on. Particulary, there is a huge government incentive and public opinion pressure for women to have kids. Many kids. Because demographics, you know.
Also, in general, as i said, men are treated as a valuable commodity, and many women want to have pants at home, no matter the quality of those pants. And yeah, there is also the russian saying: "if he beats you, it means he loves you".
So for now, russia was only place where i was:
1. asked to shut up because i´m a woman
2. shamed for being single at 30
3. shamed for not having children at 30
4. shamed for studying too much and being too smart to get a husband
5. shamed for not wearing dresses and skirts
I´ve spent a lot of time in Europe, and I live in Brazil, and both those places are totally 100% better than russia in that regard.

And this is why i will not move back to russia =)

The more you listen to emigrants, the more you arrive at the conclusion that everyone must have come from their own different version of the home country. Although some of what you said I agree with, namely the "marry and have kids" part. But many kids? Three is still considered too many for most. It's far more of "have at least one". And shamed for wearing pants - only if you hang around very religious people. And ditto studying too much - education is highly valued for both boys and girls, but this would also depend on the social circle I'd imagine. "if he beats you, it means he loves you" - I've never met anyone who takes this seriously, but maybe social circle once again.

 

[moriel]

Well, I will just reference to a thread that was about something else, but has a very nice definition of references: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...China-update&p=1727634&viewfull=1#post1727634
in case link fails, its post #15 by dorispulaski.

Basically, as i understand it, links to a site where fans share rumors are not considered a source.


As for my oppinion on Eteri, i dont like when people bash someone because "some of my favorite skaters left her with all kind of problems".
I dont like and i dont think its ok when people bring random gossip to this forum and use it as arguments.

 

[dorispulaski]

Well, I will just reference to a thread that was about something else, but has a very nice definition of references: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...China-update&p=1727634&viewfull=1#post1727634
in case link fails, its post #15 by dorispulaski.

Basically, as i understand it, links to a site where fans share rumors are not considered a source.


As for my oppinion on Eteri, i dont like when people bash someone because "some of my favorite skaters left her with all kind of problems".
I dont like and i dont think its ok when people bring random gossip to this forum and use it as arguments.

Yes, this is true.

And it is why the rumor posts disappeared.

 

[ewdokia]

As for my oppinion on Eteri, i dont like when people bash someone because "some of my favorite skaters left her with all kind of problems".
I dont like and i dont think its ok when people bring random gossip to this forum and use it as arguments.

You totally misunderstood my motivation: I don’t dislike Eteri, as skaters I like due to her coaching style developed serious problems. That’s not the reason. For example I very much like Konstantin Menshov and when he quit, he gave an interview that Rukavitsin was a young coach and also still at a learning stage when coaching him, that’s why he also made some mistakes (and Kostia spoke still with full respect about his former coach). Still I like Rukavitsin, despite it was his fault that Kostia placed 4th at RN in 2015 and couldn’t go to Euros. But key is: mistake and learning, ethical behavior. That’s what I thought Eteri will do: learn from mistakes, but obviously it was not lack of knowledge, it’s her style. She doesn’t care risking a skater’s health for good if there is a medal to win, even a minor one (e.g. Alexei Erokhov trying to compete at JGP with a partially torn ligament in the ankle). That’s my main concern: she will go on, and of course have more success than other coaches who are less reckless. And a lot of kids, who might have become successful skaters with other coaches, will probably very quickly win a few medals at young age, but then they won’t even reach seniors after having put their whole energy in training for years. And don’t pretend I’m bashing Eteri based on gossip, actually that was one post with a very special remark from another forum (originally FKO and not sports.ru) I thought I should share. In my other posts you got the facts as well: if a person says in one interview one thing and two years later something completely different, just because a skater left, that person is lying. That’s fact, not bashing.

 

[live undertone]

And what is bothering me most, is not only that some of my favorite skaters left her with all kind of problems, some of my favorite skaters still train with her (Polina, Anna Shtcherbakova) and I worry about them, but posting here won’t help anyways.

Oh I complitely agree with you. I am not Eteri hater but Polina totally broke my heart with her injuries and I do not trust enough her words that this is heredity but not too hard training (on the other hand I can understand why Polina's mom doesn't want share info about hereditary disease before Olympics because noone wants to have girl with it for Oly whereas the conventional injury can be cured by the time). She didn't touched me last season with her chess FS, but i was impressed by her enormous jumps, but this season it was WOW, you can clearly see that she had a lot of hard times because of her health problems. Such a quiet drama, it looks like real beauty disappears before your very eyes. I do not think that this huge talent will ever be revealed, and it upsets me so much!
Anna and her quads upset me even more. It was always hard question for me about "pushing sport forward". I love to watch quads but at the same time any orthopedist will tell you that the quads destroy children's health very quick because their bones and ligaments are still fragile. If it is true that they do it stable enough for competition it means that they did it enough times to have irreversible damages. Shcherbakova and Gubanova are my favourite skaters among all prodigies. Anna is so charming, I can't even explain what I feel watching her, she was my biggest hope for the future, such an amazing talant, I didn't want her to do quads at such a young age, it'll ruine her future career because of premature injures. Children are not plants that yield a harvest of medals and i'd like Eteri and Anna's parents to understand that, they clearly want her to do that, but when their child will have health ploblems they will blame Eteri.
I know there is no sport without injuries. I know this is problem of every high competetive sport and quads are not more dangerous than stuff what all pairs doing, even juniors. I really enjoy most of Eteri's skaters (that is why their health problems and ends of career hurt me so much), this is undoubtedly her merit and I don't want to bash her. I just want more foresight of their parents and coach, work for future successes, and not impossible tasks and endless training for consistency, destroying child's health and their future career. I'd like to watch Mirai's 3A more than Anna's 4T-3T-3Lo because Mirai is not child, she understands well what she's doing and i am not afraid for her. Children are not a means to receive medals, and they are not the gladiators in the ring, they are people who need to live a long lifes and deserve long career. It seems Eteri doesn't care. She can't cope with this, she need 2-3 talanted girls in group to protect them and care about their health better. Now it is over the edge, it makes her tough.
Remember Zagitova and Gubanova competing at GPF. I love both, both had an amazing tech content, both had programs suited them and their strengths. Zagitova looked like tired but winning gladiator, Gubanova like healthy happy child. I know that she is attending a regular school and has many friends. But she is not consistent. What is better? Who knowshwell:
All that Russian girls break my heart, such a tough pity competition

 

[ewdokia]

Yes, this is true.

And it is why the rumor posts disappeared.

That’s ok for me, I didn’t know even with a link it’s considered a rumour. Unfortunately you also erased my whole post containing links with Eteris former interview and a link to a statement of Sergei. Can you please restore it (that part)? It took me a lot of time to search for these old sources (unfortunately I didn’t store my post). But I don’t want to be accused of bashing Eteri when I brought evidence she told something else just two years ago. Thanks!

 

[dorispulaski]

ewdokia, I sent you your two long posts by Private Message. If those are not the ones you need, please Private Message me.

 

[ewdokia]

ewdokia, I sent you your two long posts by Private Message. If those are not the ones you need, please Private Message me.

Thank you so much!

So I repost part of my message:

_________________________________________________________

The question if Eteri is camouflaging her reckless, unethical coaching style by discrediting former students can be simply proven by her own words: According to her latest interview Adian behaved provocative in practice as he didn’t want to skate at Euros (so Eteri makes you think there was no reason behind). – Here is Eteri’s statement on Adian after Euros:
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-skating/news/769989/

Adian skated already at Nationals with fever, after that he was laying (in bed) with 38, 39 fever (the flu and sinusitis) for three weeks, took antibiotics and returned to practice till about one week before Euros started. In another interview Eteri also mentioned that Adian skated the LP on painkillers as he was having heavy muscle cramps. And he skated with a taped back (after three weeks in bed and jumping quads shortly afterwards there certainly was no core strength left). I can see why Adian didn’t want to go to Euros with just one week of preparation back on the ice and the most important competition of the season for him (JW) still ahead. He should have withdrawn, but his coach took the wrong decision and now even attacks the skater.

She also made it look as if Adian gave horrific performances with his only mistake a fall on his Quad in the Short and a doubled quad and a stepped out 2A at the end of his LP. He placed 7th at age 16. Alexander Petrov or Alexander Samarin didn’t deliver better results at older age.

But leaving aside Adian, where Eteri’s comments can be proved just so easily wrong and unethical, the comments on Sergei Voronov were just classless as well. Sergei had many coaches in the past, no one ever complained about him not being able to get around with other skaters (even when he is training with those, who don’t have such a vitae, like Maxim Kovtun). Not to tell he is one of the nicest guys out there. And again: either Eteri is lying now, or in the past, cause before World in 2015 she herself mentioned in an interview how good Adian and Sergei were getting around, that at the end of the season they were tired of their programs and just for fun skated the programs of the other one. Plus Sergei himself mentioned how good they were getting along, he even thanked Adian:
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1026589171.html

Though I believe there was a conflict related to his teammate: when Sergei detected that Eteri only took him as a sparring partner, with no major interest in Sergei himself.
And about talking to his mom during practice: why didn’t Eteri simply tell Sergei she doesn’t like it? Obviously she isn’t shy with criticism. With Julia I don’t even get started, cause e.g. Eteri’s behavior towards her e.g. during SA 2015 has been commented also on this board.

So I stop here, those who idealize Eteri just for success and amount of medals, will continue, no matter how many skaters she’ll break. Some people only care for results and not how they are achieved. I don't and I'm personally deeply disappointed by her – I formerly liked her so much for having so many well-balanced athletes skating in a cultivated style. But my opinion changed gradually with Polina at JW being the final blow. Formerly I thought she is young, she will learn from mistakes. But she won’t, she is just that reckless. This interview it the final proof. And what is bothering me most, is not only that some of my favorite skaters left her with all kind of problems, some of my favorite skaters still train with her (Polina, Anna Shtcherbakova) and I worry about them, but posting here won’t help anyways.
______________________________________________________________________

Thank you dorispulaski!