Eteri Tutberidze interview 05.05.2017

[ewdokia]

Oh I complitely agree with you. I am not Eteri hater but Polina totally broke my heart with her injuries and I do not trust enough her words that this is heredity but not too hard training (on the other hand I can understand why Polina's mom doesn't want share info about hereditary disease before Olympics because noone wants to have girl with it for Oly whereas the conventional injury can be cured by the time).

Polina’s mom says it’s not heredity:
http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20170428/1119739454.html
She says that in the past Polina suffered from a torn ligament and Koenig's disease but the injury she is dealing now is a herniated disc (= back injury). There is NO disease related to heredity. (German Wiki by the way states overuse as a cause for Koenig: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteochondrosis_dissecans.)

Anna and her quads upset me even more. It was always hard question for me about "pushing sport forward". I love to watch quads but at the same time any orthopedist will tell you that the quads destroy children's health very quick because their bones and ligaments are still fragile. If it is true that they do it stable enough for competition it means that they did it enough times to have irreversible damages.

The vids with Anna doing quads made me shake my head. Not only worrying about her health, but it makes no sense. This girl has everything to shine in all other areas – the musicality, the charisma, the blade. There is no need for her to do quads so early. She can catch up points in other areas, even when other girls would do a more difficult content. In her case I can see absolutely no benefit for the athlete. :noshake:

 

[ejnsofi]

Oh I complitely agree with you. I am not Eteri hater but Polina totally broke my heart with her injuries and I do not trust enough her words that this is heredity but not too hard training (on the other hand I can understand why Polina's mom doesn't want share info about hereditary disease before Olympics because noone wants to have girl with it for Oly whereas the conventional injury can be cured by the time). She didn't touched me last season with her chess FS, but i was impressed by her enormous jumps, but this season it was WOW, you can clearly see that she had a lot of hard times because of her health problems. Such a quiet drama, it looks like real beauty disappears before your very eyes. I do not think that this huge talent will ever be revealed, and it upsets me so much!
Anna and her quads upset me even more. It was always hard question for me about "pushing sport forward". I love to watch quads but at the same time any orthopedist will tell you that the quads destroy children's health very quick because their bones and ligaments are still fragile. If it is true that they do it stable enough for competition it means that they did it enough times to have irreversible damages. Shcherbakova and Gubanova are my favourite skaters among all prodigies. Anna is so charming, I can't even explain what I feel watching her, she was my biggest hope for the future, such an amazing talant, I didn't want her to do quads at such a young age, it'll ruine her future career because of premature injures. Children are not plants that yield a harvest of medals and i'd like Eteri and Anna's parents to understand that, they clearly want her to do that, but when their child will have health ploblems they will blame Eteri.
I know there is no sport without injuries. I know this is problem of every high competetive sport and quads are not more dangerous than stuff what all pairs doing, even juniors. I really enjoy most of Eteri's skaters (that is why their health problems and ends of career hurt me so much), this is undoubtedly her merit and I don't want to bash her. I just want more foresight of their parents and coach, work for future successes, and not impossible tasks and endless training for consistency, destroying child's health and their future career. I'd like to watch Mirai's 3A more than Anna's 4T-3T-3Lo because Mirai is not child, she understands well what she's doing and i am not afraid for her. Children are not a means to receive medals, and they are not the gladiators in the ring, they are people who need to live a long lifes and deserve long career. It seems Eteri doesn't care. She can't cope with this, she need 2-3 talanted girls in group to protect them and care about their health better. Now it is over the edge, it makes her tough.
Remember Zagitova and Gubanova competing at GPF. I love both, both had an amazing tech content, both had programs suited them and their strengths. Zagitova looked like tired but winning gladiator, Gubanova like healthy happy child. I know that she is attending a regular school and has many friends. But she is not consistent. What is better? Who knowshwell:
All that Russian girls break my heart, such a tough pity competition

The thing is pushing young children to the edge isn't only Eteri thing. I believe You Young was 11 when she was practicing 3A and Gogolev had first quad when he was 10. Marin Honda announced she is going to train 3A and 4T and she hasn't stop growing as well. Plushenko's academy just posted video of 11 yo girl trying 4S in harness

Also I think Alina also attends normal school or at least she used to because during instalive she mentioned that at the beginning she had been practically invisible in her class and only recently she made some friends

 

[OniBan]

That's an interesting perspective - especially when you consider the women like Tarasova, Moskvina, and Nina Mozer who have had lots of success working with men (though many have not been in singles.) But I do think younger, attractive women like Eteri and Kori Ade have a harder time (at least in the US, can't speak for Russia).

I agree with you that younger attractive women do have a harder time in commanding respect (something I commonly see in corporate settings as well).
The women coaches you mentioned I think have these in common - they seem more matronly in their approach and stance (don't take my word for it, it is just my observation), and as you mentioned as well (in the case of Moskvina) many of their male students are also in pairs.

 

[Miller]

The thing is pushing young children to the edge isn't only Eteri thing. I believe You Young was 11 when she was practicing 3A and Gogolev had first quad when he was 10. Marin Honda announced she is going to train 3A and 4T and she hasn't stop growing as well. Plushenko's academy just posted video of 11 yo girl trying 4S in harness

Also I think Alina also attends normal school or at least she used to because during instalive she mentioned that at the beginning she had been practically invisible in her class and only recently she made some friends

Worth noting that Nathan Chen didn't even start to train quads until he was 15, https://web.archive.org/web/2015090...70/armed-with-quads-chen-ready-for-greensboro and only landed his first one in competition at the 2015 World Junior Championships i.e. only 2 years ago, but look at him now. Do these young men/women really need to be doing quads/3As so early. Totally agree with Live Undertone/Evdokia re Anna S, she is a precious talent and does she need to be doing so much so young. Skaters needs to develop and she will need to tackle a quad at sometime, but she's still 2 years away from Seniors and may not even have her quad then. Seems such a risk.

 

[moriel]

Just to keep it grounded.

boys growth chart: http://myria.com/wp-content/uploads/growth-chart-boys-myria-1.jpg
indeed, at 15, boys are done with most of their bone growth (small stature increase after that).
Girls growth chart: http://myria.com/wp-content/uploads/growth-chart-girls-myria-21.jpg
The age is 13 here. Girls are mostly done growing at 13, as they develop earlier than boys.
So if its fine for a boy to do harder jumps at 15, its fine for a girl to do harder jumps at 14.


Also, if bashing Eteri for letting young kids do quads, i suppose we also should add to bash list:
- Brian Orser for Gogolev.
- Whoever coaches Young You
- I think Tuktamysheva trained 3A as a junior, so add Mishin also.
- Mao landed her first 3A in competition when she was about 14. So whoever coached Mao then.
I think we can continue and make a huge list - and imho, if we bash one coach for allowing junior skaters do hard jumps, we should bash them all, no? They are all wrong and endanger the health of their students.

 

[Tutto]

The question if Eteri is camouflaging her reckless, unethical coaching style by discrediting former students can be simply proven by her own words: According to her latest interview Adian behaved provocative in practice as he didn’t want to skate at Euros (so Eteri makes you think there was no reason behind). – Here is Eteri’s statement on Adian after Euros:
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-skating/news/769989/

He should have withdrawn, but his coach took the wrong decision and now even attacks the skater.
She also made it look as if Adian gave horrific performances with his only mistake a fall on his Quad in the Short and a doubled quad and a stepped out 2A at the end of his LP. He placed 7th at age 16. Alexander Petrov or Alexander Samarin didn’t deliver better results at older age.

But leaving aside Adian, where Eteri’s comments can be proved just so easily wrong and unethical, the comments on Sergei Voronov were just classless as well. Sergei had many coaches in the past, no one ever complained about him not being able to get around with other skaters (even when he is training with those, who don’t have such a vitae, like Maxim Kovtun). Not to tell he is one of the nicest guys out there. And again: either Eteri is lying now, or in the past, cause before World in 2015 she herself mentioned in an interview how good Adian and Sergei were getting around, that at the end of the season they were tired of their programs and just for fun skated the programs of the other one. Plus Sergei himself mentioned how good they were getting along, he even thanked Adian:
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1026589171.html

Though I believe there was a conflict related to his teammate: when Sergei detected that Eteri only took him as a sparring partner, with no major interest in Sergei himself.
And about talking to his mom during practice: why didn’t Eteri simply tell Sergei she doesn’t like it? Obviously she isn’t shy with criticism. With Julia I don’t even get started, cause e.g. Eteri’s behavior towards her e.g. during SA 2015 has been commented also on this board.

So I stop here, those who idealize Eteri just for success and amount of medals, will continue, no matter how many skaters she’ll break. Some people only care for results and not how they are achieved. I don't and I'm personally deeply disappointed by her – I formerly liked her so much for having so many well-balanced athletes skating in a cultivated style. But my opinion changed gradually with Polina at JW being the final blow. Formerly I thought she is young, she will learn from mistakes. But she won’t, she is just that reckless. This interview it the final proof. And what is bothering me most, is not only that some of my favorite skaters left her with all kind of problems, some of my favorite skaters still train with her (Polina, Anna Shtcherbakova) and I worry about them, but posting here won’t help anyways.

I am with you, I too was taken with Eteri at the beginning I thought she would combine the best of Russian & Western school of FS, but now I see her as hungry for her own success and nothing else.
Thanks for that link re Adian's illness before the Euros, I thought after reading the interview that something didn't add up as I vaguely remembered that Adian was ill then. If she was lying then - protecting her student - it was far too detailed statement of his condition and the treatment he received whereas a one liner would suffice. It is not the first time Eteri changed the story - I remember how at first it was known that Yulia herself chose the SL music against Eteri's will, but later on after all the acclaim the program received Eteri was trying to imply it was actually her idea.

I agree with you that younger attractive women do have a harder time in commanding respect (something I commonly see in corporate settings as well).
The women coaches you mentioned I think have these in common - they seem more matronly in their approach and stance (don't take my word for it, it is just my observation), and as you mentioned as well (in the case of Moskvina) many of their male students are also in pairs.

I don't think that Eteri's lack of success with the boys has anything to do with her being a woman. A guy might feel reluctant to be bossed by a younger or his own age woman but we are talking about young boys coached by a woman at least 3 times older than them. AFAK 90% of school teachers in Russia are women, at home many live with one parent only - mother in most cases. So no, whatever the reasons it is little to do with her sex. Kolyada, Kovtun, Samarin are all coached by women after all.

Worth noting that Nathan Chen didn't even start to train quads until he was 15, https://web.archive.org/web/2015090...70/armed-with-quads-chen-ready-for-greensboro and only landed his first one in competition at the 2015 World Junior Championships i.e. only 2 years ago, but look at him now. Do these young men/women really need to be doing quads/3As so early. Totally agree with Live Undertone/Evdokia re Anna S, she is a precious talent and does she need to be doing so much so young. Skaters needs to develop and she will need to tackle a quad at sometime, but she's still 2 years away from Seniors and may not even have her quad then. Seems such a risk.

That is probably because Nathan's parents have a medical background and understand that until 15, child's bones are still developing and too soft to withstand the force from landing of quads. Eteri sure knows that too but obviously doesn't care. I feel so sorry for those kids who are pushed by the parents from one end and a coach like Eteri from another, what chance have they got?

 

[Miller]

Just to keep it grounded.

boys growth chart: http://myria.com/wp-content/uploads/growth-chart-boys-myria-1.jpg
indeed, at 15, boys are done with most of their bone growth (small stature increase after that).
Girls growth chart: http://myria.com/wp-content/uploads/growth-chart-girls-myria-21.jpg
The age is 13 here. Girls are mostly done growing at 13, as they develop earlier than boys.
So if its fine for a boy to do harder jumps at 15, its fine for a girl to do harder jumps at 14.


Also, if bashing Eteri for letting young kids do quads, i suppose we also should add to bash list:
- Brian Orser for Gogolev.
- Whoever coaches Young You
- I think Tuktamysheva trained 3A as a junior, so add Mishin also.
- Mao landed her first 3A in competition when she was about 14. So whoever coached Mao then.
I think we can continue and make a huge list - and imho, if we bash one coach for allowing junior skaters do hard jumps, we should bash them all, no? They are all wrong and endanger the health of their students.

I don't disagree. Also worth noting it only took Nathan 2 weeks before he could do a 4T in practice (obviously several months later in competition). If you've got the technique/athleticism it appears quads can be picked up surprisingly quickly, it's just exactly when you start. 14 for girls, 15 for boys seems a good point, you've just got to watch out for any signs of injuries especially with the most extreme jumps.

 

[moriel]

I don't disagree. Also worth noting it only took Nathan 2 weeks before he could do a 4T in practice (obviously several months later in competition). If you've got the technique/athleticism it appears quads can be picked up surprisingly quickly, it's just exactly when you start. 14 for girls, 15 for boys seems a good point, you've just got to watch out for any signs of injuries especially with the most extreme jumps.

Id say probably 13 for girls would be fine still (well, i´m basing myself on the growth chart for that).
In general, for girls its a lot trickier i suppose, because while boys keep roughly same bodies, women's bodies change a lot in shape, including even a shift in the gravity center.

On the other hand, random though - well no medical experience on this one but... I broke an arm when i was 11, and i broke the other one when i was 16. The first one took less time to heal, even though it was a more serious injury. I think ive heard somewhere that kids actually heal faster and better from injuries etc, and wonder how true it is. Is there anyone with medical background to discuss it?

Long term, i suppose it doesnt matter much - most if not all top level athletes will have sport related issues later in their lives, its just too much stain, and its not like we get a lot of info of their health in their 40s or 50s

 

[Tutto]

Kudos to Eteri for such an open interview. She just laughs at the Western notion of political correctness telling directly not only what she does but also what she thinks. She can do it only in Russia - in the West, I am sure, she would be bashed immediately by the media.

I am a bit annoyed with this kind of posts from our Russian posters presenting Russia as a some sort of uncivilised country, I am not sure about Western political correctness but the Russians haven't lost some common decency of doing all the bashing necessary when they see a coach breaking all the rules in regard to her former students, the children at the time in HER care. I looked through lots of discussions on Russian forums and in the comment sections and can say that most people are as disgusted with Eteri as many posters here. So please do not present your personal opinion to which you of course entitled as of all the Russians

 

[silverfoxes]

It's one thing to be direct, honest and open, it's another thing to share every detail about former students (from only her point of view, of course) with the media & the general public. I don't think that is a "Russian" trait. Mishin may not be perfect, but I know he has enough professional ethics to keep his mouth shut about things that are nobody else's business (like when he refused to even confirm if Yulia had asked him to coach her).

 

[dorispulaski]

One reason that Nathan's progress was delayed was that he had Osgood Schlatter disease as a junior and lost a year or so of training time. He talks about it here(scroll down on the website)
https://coachalbertlim.wordpress.com/individualized-training-services/

 

[[email protected]]

I am a bit annoyed with this kind of posts from our Russian posters presenting Russia as a some sort of uncivilised country, I am not sure about Western political correctness but the Russians haven't lost some common decency of doing all the bashing necessary when they see a coach breaking all the rules in regard to her former students, the children at the time in HER care. I looked through lots of discussions on Russian forums and in the comment sections and can say that most people are as disgusted with Eteri as many posters here. So please do not present your personal opinion to which you of course entitled as of all the Russians

Do you have statistics supporting your highlighted quote? I would say that one third of posters on Russian boards are disgusted with Eteri, Yulia, Adelina, Medvedeva, Buyanova - you name it. Of course, factions are different so that you have different thirds for different skaters/coaches. Of course, a third is a generalization - the less prominent a person is the fewer active haters she has. Now those who profess the hate to anything that comes from Eteri - you can start with infamous Vaitsekhovskaya - suddenly have a nice pretext. Surely, they have jumped on it. But I would not use the term "most" unless you can prove otherwise.

 

[live undertone]

The thing is pushing young children to the edge isn't only Eteri thing. I believe You Young was 11 when she was practicing 3A and Gogolev had first quad when he was 10. Marin Honda announced she is going to train 3A and 4T and she hasn't stop growing as well. Plushenko's academy just posted video of 11 yo girl trying 4S in harness

I know that it isn't only Eteri thing, but some of her girls are my favourites (and thanks her for it) that is why I am worryed about them here. If You Young and Gogolev were my fav I would post it at an ad hoc thread. I personally don't think Eteri is a bad coach. Maybe i am not right but I've read Mishin intervew where he said that his students practice on ice two 45-minute intervals a day. He said that that way can't guarantee consistency but it is not as dangerous for health, as hardly repeated elements, so he's for limiting ice time. Liza was learning her 3A for many years since her early years to do it stable because he didn't let her to do it many times a day, while Eteri's students have more ice time and she let them to repeat hard every element to do it stable, that is why her students are so consistent but often have a lot of injuries since early years. I don't know how You Young, Marin Honda and other girls and boys practice, what Mao did, and i can't say what way is better. It is not good for young body anyway, as every high level sport, but you can minimize the consequences or get a quick result by dangerous means. This is skater's ant their families own business what way to choose, I just want my favourite skaters to have long successful career and healthy future :hopelessness:

Also I think Alina also attends normal school or at least she used to because during instalive she mentioned that at the beginning she had been practically invisible in her class and only recently she made some friends

No, almost all Russian skaters do not attend regular school, they have their personal teachers and classes once a week without classmates. Evgenia told that she can see her classmates few times a year, at start of the semester and when they meet her after competition at airport and she still can't remember them all. The same for every Sambo-70 student. Alina has one friend at her group - Eteri's daughter and they spend a lot of time together. Gubanova is one of the few Russian skaters who attend regular school, has classes and classmates and not only skating rink life. Her coach said that it is hard for her but she is for it, and I am for it too. I think personal life of skaters affects their skating a lot, so I want them to have full life, not only rink-home being, it helps to have artistry and their own style

 

[Tutto]

Do you have statistics supporting your highlighted quote? I would say that one third of posters on Russian boards are disgusted with Eteri, Yulia, Adelina, Medvedeva, Buyanova - you name it. Of course, factions are different so that you have different thirds for different skaters/coaches. Of course, a third is a generalization - the less prominent a person is the fewer active haters she has. Now those who profess the hate to anything that comes from Eteri - you can start with infamous Vaitsekhovskaya - suddenly have a nice pretext. Surely, they have jumped on it. But I would not use the term "most" unless you can prove otherwise.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I have my life to live so, no I can not provide exact percentage of anti v pro Eteri posts. If you are familiar with e.g FSO forum, would you deny that majority think Eteri's disclosure of her students personal information in this interview wrong and unethical?

 

[[email protected]]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I have my life to live so, no I can not provide exact percentage of anti v pro Eteri posts. If you are familiar with e.g FSO forum, would you deny that majority think Eteri's disclosure of her students personal information in this interview wrong and unethical?

I don't read FSO - I read occasionally sports.ru - just took a look now. 1500 comments. The last 100 or so - 14 posters pro Eteri - 8 against. Hence, my one third hypothesis works. Of course, those who are against write many more posts pro head - the hard life of a hater.

 

[Tutto]

I know that it isn't only Eteri thing, but some of her girls are my favourites (and thanks her for it) that is why I am worryed about them here. If You Young and Gogolev were my fav I would post it at an ad hoc thread. I personally don't think Eteri is a bad coach. Maybe i am not right but I've read Mishin intervew where he said that his students practice on ice two 45-minute intervals a day. He said that that way can't guarantee consistency but it is not as dangerous for health, as hardly repeated elements, so he's for limiting ice time. Liza was learning her 3A for many years since her early years to do it stable because he didn't let her to do it many times a day, while Eteri's students have more ice time and she let them to repeat hard every element to do it stable, that is why her students are so consistent but often have a lot of injuries since early years. I don't know how You Young, Marin Honda and other girls and boys practice, what Mao did, and i can't say what way is better. It is not good for young body anyway, as every high level sport, but you can minimize the consequences or get a quick result by dangerous means. This is skater's ant their families own business what way to choose, I just want my favourite skaters to have long successful career and healthy future :hopelessness:

Jin Boyang said recently that he managed to escape a major injury so far by practising as little as possible - I think he said something like 2 sessions an hour each a day.
I am amazed how Evgenia's body can hold such vigorous training but she seems to be an exception rather than a rule in Eteri's group - injuries wise.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I don't read FSO - I read occasionally sports.ru - just took a look now. 1500 comments. The last 100 or so - 14 posters pro Eteri - 8 against. Hence, my one third hypothesis works. Of course, those who are against write many more posts pro head - the hard life of a hater.

You personally don't find anything unethical about Eteri discussing personal details of students? I find that hard to believe. I stick up for Eteri and understand her on many things but I hope you are one of the eight who stand against her publicly disclosing potentially damaging info about her students past or present. It reflects poorly on her IMO.

 

[Tutto]

I don't read FSO - I read occasionally sports.ru - just took a look now. 1500 comments. The last 100 or so - 14 posters pro Eteri - 8 against. Hence, my one third hypothesis works. Of course, those who are against write many more posts pro head - the hard life of a hater.

Not a very good example - sports.ru as they often do, put up only that part of the interview which concerns Yulia to attract the readers, so many even didn't bother to read the original, resulting in yet another battle between Yulia fans & haters

 

[plushyfan]

Do you have statistics supporting your highlighted quote? I would say that one third of posters on Russian boards are disgusted with Eteri, Yulia, Adelina, Medvedeva, Buyanova - you name it. Of course, factions are different so that you have different thirds for different skaters/coaches. Of course, a third is a generalization - the less prominent a person is the fewer active haters she has. Now those who profess the hate to anything that comes from Eteri - you can start with infamous Vaitsekhovskaya - suddenly have a nice pretext. Surely, they have jumped on it. But I would not use the term "most" unless you can prove otherwise.

:thumbsup: I read it .

 

[Lana05]

You personally don't find anything unethical about discussing Eteri? You don't know her directly don't know how is going on a training session. Really there are also Daniil and Sergey on ice whith who you can discuss anything. It is already 16 pages. Wow. Eteri is so popular