Free Dance - The Battle of The Medalists

[blue dog]

Oksana Domnina reminds me a lot of Pasha Grishuk in the way of arm flailing...even her blonde hair reminds me of later Pasha...

I'm not crazy about their free dance. If we're using Polovetsian Dances, I prefer Davis and White. I just hate the arm flailing, and how ragged they look in some places.

 

[Jasper]

I really love DomShab's OD and FD this season, although I'm yet to watch Davis/White's FD of Polovetsian Dances to compare.

But now with the awful Navka/Kost gone for good from the sport, ice dance is really lighting up and becoming a fun competition to watch! It amazes me that it's taken this long for Den/Stav and Dub/Lauz to be rewarded by the judges but now they finally are and it's wonderful. I think last year's Olympics was really a low for ice dance because the three medalling teams had (for me, personally) horrible free dances not worth watching twice, especially the gold and bronze winners.

 

[1795]

I really love DomShab's OD and FD this season, although I'm yet to watch Davis/White's FD of Polovetsian Dances to compare.

But now with the awful Navka/Kost gone for good from the sport, ice dance is really lighting up and becoming a fun competition to watch! It amazes me that it's taken this long for Den/Stav and Dub/Lauz to be rewarded by the judges but now they finally are and it's wonderful. I think last year's Olympics was really a low for ice dance because the three medalling teams had (for me, personally) horrible free dances not worth watching twice, especially the gold and bronze winners.

i prefer davis/white's FD on the Polovetsian Dances as well...
it's more refined and clean looking

i agree with the "perfect" russians gone for good...

while you think the bulgarians and the canadians are "finally" being rewarded...
ever thought of the extreme underscored french team?

i wonder why the judges didn't markdown the teams who happened to make "minute" mistakes so harshly ( "slightly tripped")
but on the other hand...at COR...a step out of a perfect twizzle with a perfect comeback was downgraded extremely....

 

[lanadd]

I must disagree with you about D/L's FD. They had some problems with it at this competition, but I adore their dance — my favorite of the top teams. It's jazzy and sexy and difficult, and suits their style to a "T". Their opening lift where he holds her parallel to his body is one of the most impressive I've ever seen. Too bad they had a tough time today with it. At least you can't complain anymore about them not being dinged for mistakes!

Even if they hadn't make that mistake they still would have been second(D/S also made a mistake in the OD, and not only that but their spin-which was executed without mistake was rewarded only level 1) You could compare the judges scores for D/L from SC/NHK with the GPF-lets take SC -where they were overscores their twizzles are 5.2 points (at NHK-4.2) at the GPF 3.5.The difference is 1.7 plus the 1 point deduction for the ext.lift=2.7 points.So if we add these points to their TSS-95.90 we get 97.6.And when we substract it from 101.12(D/S FD Scores) it is still 3.52 points difference which is huge for Ice Dancing. And their mistake was too obvious this time so the judges couldn't close their eyes(and by the way D/S executed their FD without obvious mistakes,but not brilliantly-so still to come...). And that big difference is because their FD is lacking enough difficulties-if it stays at the same level not only they won't win gold but i think the will drop.The comentator was even amazed by the high TES they got. I agree that it is very pleasant, but difficult-not at all-That's why IMO it is pleasant to watch-most of the time they are just skating:chorus: :chorus: And i believe if they just skate you ll still say they are very good:chorus:
That is understandable-everybody has a favourite. Thats why the results are important. And we all saw who is the best at the moment. And this 5 or if you wish 3.50 points don't leave any place for discussion So please get over it (i mean it in a good way)

 

[lanadd]

no offense to anyone ...but what if they or one of them gets an injury?
ever thought of that...look at the two american men(right?)
and belbin anf agosto...etc....but if they didn't ....probably....
we'll see....

I don't think it is good to wish injuries of other teams so that your favourites gets a medal. D/S will most probably defend their World Tittle if everything is ok for them. I really feel pitty for Del/S.I trully believe they should be second.They are technically a cut above not only Dom/S but also D/L. As i wrote here IMO their mistake is that they hadn't changed coaches. And about D/L- they think they've found a way winning medals without having to execute strong technically programs-and that way is so cheeseee it makes me sick sometimes.All this little tricks before they begin their programs-these are such a cheap tricks...

And i don't think Dom/S will win either bronze or nothing at Worlds, but not silver

 

[JonnyCoop]

i prefer davis/white's FD on the Polovetsian Dances as well...
it's more refined and clean looking

i agree with the "perfect" russians gone for good...

while you think the bulgarians and the canadians are "finally" being rewarded...
ever thought of the extreme underscored french team?

I don't feel that Domnina/Shabalin use the music well enough for this to be all that great of a free dance; Polevetsian Dances is one of my favorite classical pieces so I tend to be a little more picky when assessing programs done to my favorites.

And certainly most of the last 2 or 3 top Russian couples have hardly been on the level of any of the great couples they had during the 80s. I question whether Domnina/Shabalin or Lobacheva/Averbukh would even be able to finish in the top 5 of any of the Russian Dance Nationals of the 80s against the likes of Klimova/Ponomarenko, Usova/Zhulin, Annenko/Sretensky, etc, etc.

re. the Bulgarians and Canadians "finally being rewarded" while the French have yet to be: Well, Deloebel & Schoenfelder have been around a pretty long time -- BUT -- Albena Denkova and Marie-France Dubreil, with other partners, competed in the 1990 JUNIOR Worlds; Deloebel & Schoenfelder didn't pop up till a few years later, so if we're looking at this from a "gotta wait your turn" perspective, DelSch still have a couple of years of waiting. Doesn't make it right, certainly, but that seems to be the way it works. If the unwritten ISU rule about holding a spot in the top 3 for the Russians was rescinded, we'd probably be looking at an entirely different competition among these 3 "old-timer" couples.

 

[chuckm]

Delobel/Schoenfelder have been competing at Senior Worlds since 1998, when they finished 18th, right behind Denkova/Staviiski, who appeared in their first Worlds the year before that, 1997. 2007 Worlds will be DelShoes' tenth Worlds, where it's only Belgosto's seventh appearance, and DomShab's fifth.

Paying dues has nothing to do with anything. I think the French may be paying the price for Marie Reine LeGougne into perpetuity.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I haven't seen Davis/White so I will hold off on the comparison. I would like that a concept could be adopted so that the final top six skaters should all do their thing to the same music. The average spectator who likes sports would get something out of this.

Borodin's music is tuneful and based on a story. I would like to see it danced without the story. Captive princesses belong in a show setting not a competitive setting. I think that is the discrepancy between Eastern and Western Europe. One culture wants a story-telling-dance. The other wants a dance. That's a big cultural difference.

I have no idea what the make up of the judges and official panels in Dance, but this is a case where several teams are first rate and any team is capable of winning, imo. I would not want to see a deal involving Joubert over Lambiel
for Dom/Shab over Del/Schern.

Joe

 

[JonnyCoop]

Delobel/Schoenfelder have been competing at Senior Worlds since 1998, when they finished 18th, right behind Denkova/Staviiski, who appeared in their first Worlds the year before that, 1997. 2007 Worlds will be DelShoes' tenth Worlds, where it's only Belgosto's seventh appearance, and DomShab's fifth.

Paying dues has nothing to do with anything. I think the French may be paying the price for Marie Reine LeGougne into perpetuity.

Yes, Del/Sch have been around longer as a UNIT, but Denkova and Dubreil have still been around longer, even if some of that does involve the Junior level and other partners. The point I was trying to make was, IF you are going to assume that "paying dues" is a factor in current dance standings, Dubreil/Lauzon and Denkova/Staviysky STILL trump Deloebel &Schoenfelder, even if Del/Sch have been around that long. Certainly Tatiana Navka in part benefitted from longetivity; she was a judges favorite with previous partners and probably would have made the podium sooner or later had she even been paired up with Homer Simpson.

ITA that the LeGougne fallout is definitely dumping out onto Del/Sch; I can't think of any other reason why they just can't pull in the numbers.

 

[1795]

I don't think it is good to wish injuries of other teams so that your favourites gets a medal. D/S will most probably defend their World Tittle if everything is ok for them. I really feel pitty for Del/S.I trully believe they should be second.They are technically a cut above not only Dom/S but also D/L. As i wrote here IMO their mistake is that they hadn't changed coaches. And about D/L- they think they've found a way winning medals without having to execute strong technically programs-and that way is so cheeseee it makes me sick sometimes.All this little tricks before they begin their programs-these are such a cheap tricks...

And i don't think Dom/S will win either bronze or nothing at Worlds, but not silver

yeah i understand....
i'm not really wishing...hahaha
i have to say... its the way the bulgarians attack the ice ...they have confidence...and a built reputation...along with the glorious music....
yeah del and sch....totally out of luck all the time...

 

[rain]

Even if they hadn't make that mistake they still would have been second(D/S also made a mistake in the OD, and not only that but their spin-which was executed without mistake was rewarded only level 1) You could compare the judges scores for D/L from SC/NHK with the GPF-lets take SC -where they were overscores their twizzles are 5.2 points (at NHK-4.2) at the GPF 3.5.The difference is 1.7 plus the 1 point deduction for the ext.lift=2.7 points.So if we add these points to their TSS-95.90 we get 97.6.And when we substract it from 101.12(D/S FD Scores) it is still 3.52 points difference which is huge for Ice Dancing. And their mistake was too obvious this time so the judges couldn't close their eyes(and by the way D/S executed their FD without obvious mistakes,but not brilliantly-so still to come...). And that big difference is because their FD is lacking enough difficulties-if it stays at the same level not only they won't win gold but i think the will drop.The comentator was even amazed by the high TES they got. I agree that it is very pleasant, but difficult-not at all-That's why IMO it is pleasant to watch-most of the time they are just skating:chorus: :chorus: And i believe if they just skate you ll still say they are very good:chorus:
That is understandable-everybody has a favourite. Thats why the results are important. And we all saw who is the best at the moment. And this 5 or if you wish 3.50 points don't leave any place for discussion So please get over it (i mean it in a good way)

Frankly, I think you're the one that needs to get over it. It's obvious your favorites are Denk/Stav, and that's your perogative, of course, but you don't have to pretend other teams are without merit . D/L had more than just the extended lift deduction. They had a couple bobbles on twizzles that cost them dearly. I do happen to think Denk/Stav are favorites for gold at worlds, but D/L are not as behind them as you like to pretend. Their dance is difficult, and they actually added more difficulty prior to this competition — they make it look effortless which is the sign of a good dance team. When you start saying things like their dance isn't difficult at all, it just makes me not take your post seriously.

 

[Saundy]

Frankly, I think you're the one that needs to get over it. It's obvious your favorites are Denk/Stav, and that's your perogative, of course, but you don't have to pretend other teams are without merit . D/L had more than just the extended lift deduction. They had a couple bobbles on twizzles that cost them dearly. I do happen to think Denk/Stav are favorites for gold at worlds, but D/L are not as behind them as you like to pretend. Their dance is difficult, and they actually added more difficulty prior to this competition — they make it look effortless which is the sign of a good dance team. When you start saying things like their dance isn't difficult at all, it just makes me not take your post seriously.

AMEN!
If they didn't have the goods, they wouldn't get the marks.
Need I remind you that D/L beat Den/Stav in the free dance (by a small margin of course) at world's this year. They can do it when they skate their absolute best.

 

[chuckm]

Yes, Del/Sch have been around longer as a UNIT, but Denkova and Dubreil have still been around longer, even if some of that does involve the Junior level and other partners. The point I was trying to make was, IF you are going to assume that "paying dues" is a factor in current dance standings, Dubreil/Lauzon and Denkova/Staviysky STILL trump Deloebel &Schoenfelder, even if Del/Sch have been around that long. Certainly Tatiana Navka in part benefitted from longetivity; she was a judges favorite with previous partners and probably would have made the podium sooner or later had she even been paired up with Homer Simpson.

ITA that the LeGougne fallout is definitely dumping out onto Del/Sch; I can't think of any other reason why they just can't pull in the numbers.

Excuse me, but Dubreuil/Lauzon have not been competing at Senior Worlds as long as DelSHoes. 2007 will be D/L's 8th Worlds, and DelShoes' 10th. I don't see that D/L are any more "entitled" to a podium spot than DelShoes. This season, they have certainly made as many mistakes than DelShoes, the difference is DelShoes got diinged badly for their mistakes, while D/L goes scot free.

 

[temperboy28]

Dubreuil/Lauzon lost the free dance by over 4 points to the Bulgarians, and were even below the Russians in the free dance so I think they lost points with their mistakes. They would not have beaten the Bulgarians even without them I think but they would have scored higher then they did so it is not like judges ignore their mistakes.

Delobel/Schoenfelder(spelling)are a team I like but they are 4th or 5th every year at Worlds or the GP final it seems so the judges must feel there is something missing with them. A couple of times even that slow and boring Ukranian team beat them for bronze at the last Olympics and Worlds a couple years back which I thought was crazy but it says how the judges feel about the French I guess. The longer it goes by the harder it is to think they will break through their personal barrier and ever win a World or Olympic medal.

 

[1795]

Dubreuil/Lauzon lost the free dance by over 4 points to the Bulgarians, and were even below the Russians in the free dance so I think they lost points with their mistakes. They would not have beaten the Bulgarians even without them I think but they would have scored higher then they did so it is not like judges ignore their mistakes.

Delobel/Schoenfelder(spelling)are a team I like but they are 4th or 5th every year at Worlds or the GP final it seems so the judges must feel there is something missing with them. The longer it goes by the harder it is to think they will break through their personal barrier and ever win a World or Olympic medal.

now thinking about it....and as a huge fan of the french....
they are kinda missing something....presentation wise...
but technicalwise...they win hands down....

 

[temperboy28]

I believe Denkova/Staviiski will successfully defend their World Championship in Toyko. But I also believe that DomShabs have the silver medal wrapped up, whether or not ice dance fans believe that is correct. I'm afraid all the other teams will be duking it out for the bronze medal.

The Russian team will have a stranglehold on the World Championship for the two years leading into the Olympics, and the OGM as well. Face it: it's all been predecided. And for those who think one of the younger teams will win in 2014, think again. DomShabs are young (21 and 24) and will hold onto that gold medal far into the future.

The GP final was in Russia and Domnina and Shabalin could not win the silver medal over Dubreuil and Lauzon with mistakes in their last dance, competing in Russia. So how do they have lock on silver for Worlds which are not in Russia then?

Domnina and Shabalin winning all the World and Olympic events starting in 2008 to 2014 Olympics? That would make them the most accomplished dance team, wins wise, in history. That would be crazy, I dont want to predetermine how good they will be since they are young and hard to tell how much they improve when they are still so young but no way on earth they are that amazingly great. If they were you could tell already, despite not knowing how much they could improve the signs of that possability would be there already.

 

[lanadd]

Frankly, I think you're the one that needs to get over it. It's obvious your favorites are Denk/Stav, and that's your perogative, of course, but you don't have to pretend other teams are without merit . D/L had more than just the extended lift deduction. They had a couple bobbles on twizzles that cost them dearly. I do happen to think Denk/Stav are favorites for gold at worlds, but D/L are not as behind them as you like to pretend. Their dance is difficult, and they actually added more difficulty prior to this competition — they make it look effortless which is the sign of a good dance team. When you start saying things like their dance isn't difficult at all, it just makes me not take your post seriously.

Rain, what do i have to get over?That they won the gold medal?That is very funny.Well i ll try hard in the next day As for the marks of D/L i explained you very detailed what were their marks for the twizzles at SC(where of course they were overscored) and added the difference+ the 1 point deduction to their total from GPF-it is still 3 points behind.I understand that no matter what happends and how and what they dance you ll still saying the same things.I haven't said that their FD is not difficult at all,but that it is not difficult enough and also 1 of the lift is an old one. And Rain, the only one thing that matters to me is my fav. winning gold, which is happening.I don't have any problems with the placement of the other couples(except that i feel pity for Del/S) And so that we finish this endless discussion i wish luck to all the couples and let the better win

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Dubreuil/Lauzon lost the free dance by over 4 points to the Bulgarians, and were even below the Russians in the free dance so I think they lost points with their mistakes.

What exactly were their mistakes? and did other teams not have mistakes? I mean, one can easily spot mistakes in Singles and Pairs but not so easy in Dance.
Joe

 

[slutskayafan21]

Dubreuil/Lauzon did have a 1 point deduction for an overtimed lift I believe, as well as a very shaky twizzle sequence.

 

[dfj]

Dubreuil/Lauzon did have a 1 point deduction for an overtimed lift I believe, as well as a very shaky twizzle sequence.

I read an interview with Marie-France saying that she missed an element entirely. But, we must carry on...I'd rather they make their mistakes at the GPF and save their best FD Worlds.