Has Sotnikova finally learned how to control her nerves?

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

gracie does have a true lutz but her flip is a lip... She and adelina are in the same boat.

Gracie falls, pops and succumbs to nerves just as much as adelina does so again, those two are relaxing in the same boat.

They are both young skaters and it's way to early to be making huge predictions about their futures. Why not chill on the animosity and ill will and give adelina a few years before you declare her a lost cause?

ita.

 

[coolboogie22]

I actually enjoy Adelina FS, She looks so happy to skate to this music, we can see it in her face during the footwork section. Her program this year shows off her great personnality especially in the FS. Compared to last year, that she seems to immitate her favorite skater Mao Asada by taking Libestraum.

It's great to see a skater who express herself and make their personnality unique and different from the others. Adelina make me a fan this year. And, she will certainly skate a clean FS soon, there is no reason why she couldn't do it.

 

[hanca]

Sotnikova will be the New Kiira Korpi a skater who can NEVER skate a clean FS
I too used to be her fan but I gave up on her last year, her inconsistency is really a turn off
she needs to be more stable like Gracie Gold who she has never beaten this season.

Gracie has a true lutz and Flip is more reliable
Sotnikova has a Flutz and her Flip is 50/50 either lands them of pops them
her technique and nerves are making her too much of a headcase.

I am really glad that Gracie is so talented; however, the fact remains that Adelina's season best is nearly 10 points higher than Gracies. Adelina's season's best is 193.99, which is 4th SB from all ladies this season (straight after Yu-Na, Mao and Carolina). Gracie's season's best is 184.25, which is 9th season's best from all ladies.

 

[pangtongfan]

Her TES in the SP was only 0.26 below Yuna's outstanding SP at Worlds. Think about it; Adelina (with an "e" and a UR) is on par with Yuna (with an "e") technically, and gives up < 3 points on PCS to Yuna. Of course, in the LP where the jumps factor in to the score to a greater extent Yuna will widen her lead but by next season a clean Adelina with a 3/3 is going to be capable of scoring 70+ in the SP. I don't think anyone outside the top 3 can do this.

If Yu Na does a similar SP at the Olympics or any other event she will score over 75 guaranteed. Her SP score at Worlds was held down by a variety of factors. If you think the judges would ever place a clean Sotnikova or a clean Yu Na Kim in any program though in a head to head same competition (even the short) then you are more than a little optimistic and unrealistic.

 

[PftJump]

Don't be serious about WTT score.
It's a kind of gift for forced participants.

IMO, No one nervous in WTT.
Cruel?

 

[LRK]

Don't be serious about WTT score.
It's a kind of gift for forced participants.

IMO, No one nervous in WTT.
Cruel?

So that's why we are seeing so many clean skates, is what you're saying?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

If Yu Na does a similar SP at the Olympics or any other event she will score over 75 guaranteed.

Where in particular was she undermarked 5+ points in her Worlds SP? Five points is a HUGE margin in the SP. Go element by element and let me know where those 5 points would come from.

 

[ForeverFish]

Um, you mean the Gracie Gold who lost to Kiira Korpi at Cup of Russia this season?

As for "never beaten this season" -- they only competed ONCE against each other, at Worlds! And at Worlds she was actually ahead of Gold after the SP.

Also, Sotnikova's Euros performance would have easily beaten Gold's 4CC performance (which were at the same time essentially).

Nope. Sotnikova and Gold also competed against each other at the 2012 Rostelecom Cup, where Gold placed second and Sotnikova fifth.

 

[chuckm]

It's the head-to-head competitions that tell the tale.

Gracie beat Adelina at CoR, Worlds and WTT. That's 3 of 3 head-to-head competitions.

CoR: Gold 2nd; Sotnikova 5th
62.16 34.92 27.24 6.86 6.57 7.04 6.86 6.71 0.00 Gold, SP
57.11 29.11 28.00 7.07 6.64 7.07 7.21 7.00 0.00 Sotnikova, SP

112.87 54.77 58.10 7.54 6.93 7.32 7.39 7.14 0.00 Gold, FS
100.87 48.28 55.59 7.14 6.50 6.79 7.25 7.07 3.00 Sotnikova, FS

WORLDS Gold 6th; Sotnikova 9th
59.62 30.97 28.65 7.36 6.89 7.18 7.25 7.14 0.00 Sotnikova, SP
58.85 30.23 28.62 7.18 6.89 7.25 7.25 7.21 0.00 Gold, SP

125.40 65.22 60.18 7.57 7.25 7.61 7.57 7.61 0.00 Gold, FS
116.36 55.73 60.63 7.71 7.32 7.61 7.57 7.68 0.00 Sotnikova, FS

WTT Gold 3rd; Sotnikova 4th
67.13 36.53 30.60 7.64 7.36 7.86 7.68 7.71 0.00 Sotnikova, SP
60.98 33.47 28.51 7.29 6.82 7.18 7.18 7.18 1.00 Gold, SP

127.05 65.28 61.77 7.79 7.32 7.96 7.79 7.75 0.00 Gold, FS
115.97 56.28 60.69 7.82 7.36 7.61 7.64 7.50 1.00 Sotnikova, FS

 

[pangtongfan]

Where in particular was she undermarked 5+ points in her Worlds SP? Five points is a HUGE margin in the SP. Go element by element and let me know where those 5 points would come from.

2 points atleast on the flip, 2-3 points (atleast) in PCS, that is already a good 4-5 points, and a little bit here and there on other elements. Why focus only on elements, when it is clear Kims PCS will be higher for future clean shorts, do you really think it will happen again that Kostner falls on her combination and still beats a clean Yu Na in PCS in the SP. Sorry no. Anyway the triple flip and the PCS difference to what her next clean short will likely be scored is almost already most of the points to take her up to 75 atleast. The obvious point is if Sotnikova can get a 70ish score with a downgraded triple lutz-triple toe, than Yu Nas typical short will get 75+ easily now that she is the top dog again. Yu Nas SP score at Worlds was lower for a variety of factors- her first big competition in years and no longer established the frontrunner (which she now is again and will be scored as such), false edge call on the triple flip which she usually gets huge GOE for as opposed to the -GOE she got at Worlds, program and performance both a bit flat relative to usual which along with being away awhile led to MUCH lower PCS than she normally gets (as the LP would go on to show what is more common for her again), drawing early in the event to skate due to her ranking.

If you think a clean Sotnikova will get 72 in the short then you shouldnt even be questioning Kim will be getting several points higher than that. Like I said do you ever think the judges would place a clean Sotnikova over a clean Kim in the short program, ROTFL!! Maybe if Kim only did a triple toe-double toe combo.

 

[bramweld]

The problem with all Russian Skaters today stems from their Fed IMHO; barring the kerfuffle moments of any a developing athlete. They treat their athletes like meat, and within their ranks they don't know how treat each other with respect. Coaches tearing down other coaches and teams in the press and such the like. From top to bottom they're all headcases. V/T could not compete so dominantly with the Sale and Pelletier's of 2002 because those two were solid. V/T are just lucky not to have much real competition right now, S/S are in their twilight years and that's why they're running away with it. The Fed seems to want instant gratification, case in point the Menchov/Kovtun embarrassment. They hype up the athletes early, when mere babies, such as Tuk, Sot, I/K, Gach etc., but they rarely exhibit the poise and patience needed to develop their teams. As soon as someone struggles, teams know they will be benched in favor of new talent or they will be skewered in the press, savagely. I think all this has played havoc on the athletes, its just very noticeable in Sotnikova. I hope however things will change in time with better leadership and possibly the maturity of the athletes themselves.

 

[pangtongfan]

Don't be serious about WTT score.
It's a kind of gift for forced participants.

This too. Sotnikova would not have gotten her WTT SP score for that skate anywhere else. She would need to be squeeky clean (no downgraded combo) to get a score like that. Suzuki also would not get the score she got for her WTT LP anywhere else, as much as I like her and was happy for her here. Alot of men got generous scores for their skates too.

 

[gmyers]

The problem with all Russian Skaters today stems from their Fed IMHO; barring the kerfuffle moments of any a developing athlete. They treat their athletes like meat, and within their ranks they don't know how treat each other with respect. Coaches tearing down other coaches and teams in the press and such the like. From top to bottom they're all headcases. V/T could not compete so dominantly with the Sale and Pelletier's of 2002 because those two were solid. V/T are just lucky not to have much real competition right now, S/S are in their twilight years and that's why they're running away with it. The Fed seems to want instant gratification, case in point the Menchov/Kovtun embarrassment. They hype up the athletes early, when mere babies, such as Tuk, Sot, I/K, Gach etc., but they rarely exhibit the poise and patience needed to develop their teams. As soon as someone struggles, teams know they will be benched in favor of new talent or they will be skewered in the press, savagely. I think all this has played havoc on the athletes, its just very noticeable in Sotnikova. I hope however things will change in time with better leadership and possibly the maturity of the athletes themselves.

After the catastrophic embarrassment of Vancouver they didn't even fire Piseev. They don't even know what to do. They shuffle some chairs around announce Gorshkov as the leader but still leave Piseev with lots of power. They are all crazy and destructive toward the sport at the very top of it! The singles discipline is in a state of continual collapse in seniors and if anything it's getting worse! They imported a great partner for Trankov so the pairs is not so disastrous. Dance shows also no sign of strengthening regardless of B/S bronze which came with a 4th in the FD and not a close third to V/M. If it was a strong bronze there would have been near second in the FD not a 4th place.

 

[ForeverFish]

Where in particular was she undermarked 5+ points in her Worlds SP? Five points is a HUGE margin in the SP. Go element by element and let me know where those 5 points would come from.

ITA. Even with a clean 3F, which she lacked at Worlds, her SP score would have been slightly over 72. If you factor in a clean flying camel spin, it would come close to 74. Nowhere was Yuna docked more than five points.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Yu Nas SP score at Worlds was lower for a variety of factors- her first big competition in years and no longer established the frontrunner (which she now is again and will be scored as such), false edge call on the triple flip which she usually gets huge GOE for as opposed to the -GOE she got at Worlds, program and performance both a bit flat relative to usual which along with being away awhile led to MUCH lower PCS than she normally gets (as the LP would go on to show what is more common for her again), drawing early in the event to skate due to her ranking.

What is a false edge call? Are you saying she took off on the wrong edge but still should have gotten +GOE, or that the technical caller lied? And they would never score Yuna's PCS in the short THREE points higher than Carolina anymore; that's the difference between Carolina's PCS and Adelina's! I'm not sure why you think she would get some PCS bump now that she's won a world title, when she was already a reigning Olympic champion.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

This too. Sotnikova would not have gotten her WTT SP score for that skate anywhere else.

She did at Europeans. Also, she quite constantly receives around 58 for skates with 3T3T and some msitakes like a popped Flip. 58.93 at SA with 1F and level 2 steps. 3F is 5.3, with about +1 GOE this already equals 6 points lost. So 64.93 with all the jumps. Get the steps up to level 4 (which she managed more than once this season) and you have about 67 points again.
I'd say it looks quite good for her to receive her WTT score at other events too.

 

[EricRohmer]

Yu Nas SP score at Worlds was lower for a variety of factors.

I would add this factor as well.
What judges seem not to have liked that a not-deep ladies field(Korea) gains 3 spots for Olympics.

 

[pangtongfan]

ITA. Even with a clean 3F, which she lacked at Worlds, her SP score would have been slightly over 72. If you factor in a clean flying camel spin, it would come close to 74. Nowhere was Yuna docked more than five points.

and then you factor in higher PCS which she will DEFINITELY get for her next clean short you are even higher than that, probably 76 or so. Thanks for only helping to prove my point. Anyway the 74 is already higher than drivingmissdaisy`s projected score Sotnikova can reach next year, and my only point was that drivingmissdaisy implying by next year Sotnikova could beat a clean Yu Na Kim in the SP is frankly laughable.

What is a false edge call? Are you saying she took off on the wrong edge but still should have gotten +GOE, or that the technical caller lied? And they would never score Yuna's PCS in the short THREE points higher than Carolina anymore; that's the difference between Carolina's PCS and Adelina's! I'm not sure why you think she would get some PCS bump now that she's won a world title, when she was already a reigning Olympic champion.

Yes I am saying she got in an incorrect lip call. What is so startling to you about that, that is what MOST people said at the time, and tech. callers make tons of mistakes anyway, especialy UR calls for alot of skaters, and other calls.

I did not say YuNas PCS will be three points higher than Carolina in the SP, especialy not a good Carolina, but the next time Yu Na skates cleanly and Carolina falls on a combination jump it will be atleast a whole point higher as opposed to a point lower. If you think the next time they competed Yu Na will skate a clean SP, Carolina will fall on her combination, and Carolina will still get higher PCS than you keep deluding yourself of that. The way you talk you seem to think Yu Na`s ceiling in the SP is 70 points since while Adelina can go higher than that, LOL!

Lastly being reigning Olympic Champion who hasnt competed in big competition for years doesnt make you the one to beat yet. Just look at Lysacek. I also said her SP score was lower due to an early draw, and a quite flat performance and program for her standards, which you of course conveniently ignored. Lets meet this time at the Olympics and see if Yu Na get the same PCS in her Olympic SP as Worlds though and we will see who is right.

She did at Europeans.

She had a clean short at Europeans, not one with a visibly underrotated and downgraded combo like here. Anyway scoring at Europeans tends to also be higher than other events.

 

[pangtongfan]

It's the head-to-head competitions that tell the tale.

Gracie beat Adelina at CoR, Worlds and WTT. That's 3 of 3 head-to-head competitions.

CoR: Gold 2nd; Sotnikova 5th
62.16 34.92 27.24 6.86 6.57 7.04 6.86 6.71 0.00 Gold, SP
57.11 29.11 28.00 7.07 6.64 7.07 7.21 7.00 0.00 Sotnikova, SP

112.87 54.77 58.10 7.54 6.93 7.32 7.39 7.14 0.00 Gold, FS
100.87 48.28 55.59 7.14 6.50 6.79 7.25 7.07 3.00 Sotnikova, FS

WORLDS Gold 6th; Sotnikova 9th
59.62 30.97 28.65 7.36 6.89 7.18 7.25 7.14 0.00 Sotnikova, SP
58.85 30.23 28.62 7.18 6.89 7.25 7.25 7.21 0.00 Gold, SP

125.40 65.22 60.18 7.57 7.25 7.61 7.57 7.61 0.00 Gold, FS
116.36 55.73 60.63 7.71 7.32 7.61 7.57 7.68 0.00 Sotnikova, FS

WTT Gold 3rd; Sotnikova 4th
67.13 36.53 30.60 7.64 7.36 7.86 7.68 7.71 0.00 Sotnikova, SP
60.98 33.47 28.51 7.29 6.82 7.18 7.18 7.18 1.00 Gold, SP

127.05 65.28 61.77 7.79 7.32 7.96 7.79 7.75 0.00 Gold, FS
115.97 56.28 60.69 7.82 7.36 7.61 7.64 7.50 1.00 Sotnikova, FS

Yes I think Gold is clearly above Sotnikova at this point. Sotnikova needs to start to skate clean programs and hope for mistakes from Gold to come out ahead in the future, especialy as Gold is likely to keep improving artistically and is already technically superior. I do think in the SP Sotnikova could come out ahead even if both skate cleanly, but in the LP a clean Gold would beat even a clean Sotnikova, and she has proven herself more likely to do clean or closer to clean LPs of the two as well.

 

[sky_fly20]

I think we all agree Sotnikova cannot skate a clean FS

Sotnikova will be the New Kiira Korpi