How Would You Explain And Apply GOE Rules?

[Mathman]

The plan B is simple - to make figure skating go modern. Bring in Justin Bieber, I'm sure new fans of figure skating will come. ISU has already thought about it. The vocals will be introduced into singles skating after 2014. Don't worry about the old fans - they'll become dinosaurs before long.

This is why I don't think Justin Bieber is the answer. If people want to hear Justin Bieber they can go to a Justin Bieber concert. Or they can download Justin Bieber songs to their I-thingy. Why would they want to see someone SKATE to Justin Bieber?

The Disson shows have tried that tack. Have some sort of live band playing and at the same time someone is skating. That's one thing too many.

Plus, you can hear Justin Bieber any hour of the day or night. When do you get to hear Carmen except at a figure skating contest?

 

[Tonichelle]

they already do skate to the hit songs... it's called the 5 minute smack down... I mean warm-up.

... it's weird to think that at 29 (which is what I will be in 2014) I will be a "dinosaur fan". :disapp:

 

[Bluebonnet]

... it's weird to think that at 29 (which is what I will be in 2014) I will be a "dinosaur fan". :disapp:

Don't worry! I'm already a "dinosaur fan". I mean how many people love classical music but hate modern music?

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Question: "How Would you explain and apply GOE rules?"

My Answer:
1. GOE stands for "Grade of Execution"
2. It ranges from -3 to +3 in increments of one (seven possible grades)
3. GOE applies to the technical elements.
4. The number and type of elements varies from discipline to discipline; the free program has more elements than the short program.
5. Each element is assigned a base value, depending on it's difficulty.
6. The judges judge each element based on a variety of factors (for example, a jump is judged on it's entry, rotation, and landing, among other things).
7. Once the judges give the element a grade of execution (from -3 to +3), that number is factored (based on the base value of the element; so a harder element getting +1 gives a higher GOE than an easier) and then added to the Base value to get the element score.
8. The total element score is the sum of the scores of each element.

when were senior B competitions ever shown on tv?

Anyone have an answer? Particularly an event that features only one skater that has made the top ten at worlds (MT/M). Was there a particularly poor Nebelhorn that graced the small screen at one point?

That's Plan C. I haven't given up on Plan B yet. I just haven't figured out what it is.

Still, what do we gain by being dismissive of potential friends of the sport who just want to enjoy its beauty and excitement? Granted we get to feel superior to the unwashed masses (always a good thing ). But there ought to be a way to draw a bigger perimeter and take them in, rather than circling the wagons with every criticism.

It's an interesting question, thinking about it. I'm trying to conjure up an example of a sport that in content (rules/structure/judging/etc) and image (narrative/marketing etc) encouraged knowledge and understanding of the sport itself while at the same time still allowed a relatively ignorant audience to enjoy it. I don't think 6.0 figure skating fits the bill (sold as a soap opera, it reveled in nationalist ideals and ignorance)... the closest I can think of would be modern tennis (though I'll say that I do think COP skating works that way for me, it's clearly not working that way in toto - and I don't think that's plausible, based on our previous conversations).

 

[Bluebonnet]

This is why I don't think Justin Bieber is the answer. If people want to hear Justin Bieber they can go to a Justin Bieber concert. Or they can download Justin Bieber songs to their I-thingy. Why would they want to see someone SKATE to Justin Bieber?

The Disson shows have tried that tack. Have some sort of live band playing and at the same time someone is skating. That's one thing too many.

Plus, you can hear Justin Bieber any hour of the day or night. When do you get to hear Carmen except at a figure skating contest?

Do young people really want to hear Carmen? Most of them don't.

 

[janetfan]

Do young people really want to hear Carmen? Most of them don't.

It's the "dinosaurs" in most cases who actually PAY for the tickets.

And they might prefer "Carmen" to Justin or other teen flavors of the month.

Besides "Carmen" is familiar enough to the judges that skaters will continue using it.

 

[gkelly]

when were senior B competitions ever shown on tv?

In the US? Well, Piruetten was shown in 1993 when it was the test event for that season's Olympics and a lot of potential medalists attended to check out the venue.

 

[Tonichelle]

Don't worry! I'm already a "dinosaur fan". I mean how many people love classical music but hate modern music?

I don't enjoy 98% of the pop music out there... it was the same when I was a teen... it sucks. (btw, I prefer Carmen to Justin Bieber)

 

[FSGMT]

Do young people really want to hear Carmen? Most of them don't.

I'm young and I LOVE Carmen, as well as most of the classical music (but I do listen to pop or rock music), and I think that, for figure skating, classical music is the best to express feelings and create something unique on the ice! I'm a violinist, so you can consider me biased but I'm part of that "young" public that figure skating needs at the moment!

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Where can I hear Carmen? You mean besides at the ballet and opera? Besides the countless discs and video recordings? Heck, the Doctor Who premiere featured Carmen (in order to disturb the Daleks).

 

[Bluebonnet]

I'm young and I LOVE Carmen, as well as most of the classical music (but I do listen to pop or rock music), and I think that, for figure skating, classical music is the best to express feelings and create something unique on the ice! I'm a violinist, so you can consider me biased but I'm part of that "young" public that figure skating needs at the moment!

OT: No wonder! That's a critical reason! String instrument players almost all love classical music. The vast majority of North Americans don't learn string instruments. Besides, the environment in school and home don't give them the opportunities to listen to classical music. That is the main reason that most Americans don't like classical music. However, even though classical music market, just like figure skating, is shrinking, it will never die, even in North America.:yes:

 

[janetfan]

OT: No wonder! That's a critical reason! String instrument players almost all love classical music. The vast majority of North Americans don't learn string instruments. Besides, the environment in school and home don't give them the opportunities to listen to classical music. That is the main reason that most Americans don't like classical music. However, even though classical music market, just like figure skating, is shrinking, it will never die, even in North America.:yes:

That's a common perception that is not true.

More Americans by far learn to play string instruments than any other country.*

Part of it is econonomical and part of it was having the most string teachers and music programs in schools.

ASTA, the American String Teachers Association is huge....bigger than similar associations in Germany, France and England combined.

http://www.astaweb.com/Public/Home/Public/Default.aspx?hkey=434a826e-b3c6-4035-9617-860942a049d2

Another tidbit - Germans buy more sheet music than any country (USA is second) but the majority of Germans play wind instruments and keyboards, not string instruments.

*I don't know as much about China but string programs there are growing and are certainly bigger than in Euro countries.
Sheet music sales there like CD's are a problem due to massive piracy and any real statistics released from China are dubious at best.

 

[Bluebonnet]

That's a common perception that is not true.

More Americans by far learn to play string instruments than any other country.*

Part of it is econonomical and part of it was having the most string teachers and music programs in schools.

I highly doubt this assertion. The fact is that the band programs in schools are much much more popular than orchestra programs which normally contain only string instruments. Some schools don't even have orchestra. They just have band, no choice if you want to learn musical instruments. I've never heard anywhere that a school has only orchestra program but no band program. Also, most string instrument players started at home at very young for violin, a few years later for viola and cello. Bass players start in school either never learned music instruments or switched from cello. But the kids who never formally learned any musical instruments are mostly going to band. And they progress fast in band programs. The families who can't afford the expenses of band programs would choose chior, art, or theatre art.

 

[janetfan]

I highly doubt this assertion. The fact is that the band programs in schools are much much more popular than orchestra programs which normally contain only string instruments. Some schools don't even have orchestra. They just have band, no choice if you want to learn musical instruments. I've never heard anywhere that a school has only orchestra program but no band program. Also, most string instrument players started at home at very young for violin, a few years later for viola and cello. But for the kids who never formally learned any musical instruments are mostly going to band. And they progress fast in band programs. For the families who can't afford the expenses of band programs would choose chior, art, or theatre art.

I have spent my life in the music business.
As an ASCAP member not to mention many other professional music associations I have access to information that you don't.

You are right about Texas - it is the strongest Band state in USA and fairly weak in strings.
New York and many other states are much different.

You come from Canada? One of the weaker string countries in the world.

Your opinions are fine with me - I just happen to know more about this than you.

If you have any real questions about music and strings feel free to PM me.....

 

[Mathman]

Where can I hear Carmen? You mean besides at the ballet and opera? Besides the countless discs and video recordings? Heck, the Doctor Who premiere featured Carmen (in order to disturb the Daleks).

That's quite so! And that doesn't even count reruns of the Gilligan's Island episode where the castaways staged Hamlet, the opera.

(To the tune of the Toreador's song)

Neither a borr'wer nor a lender be. ♫

Do not forget: stay out of debt. ♪

Think twice, and take this good advice from me,

Guard that old solvenceeeEEEEEE! ♫♪

There's just one other thing

You ought to do

To thine own self...be...true. ♪

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXId5jOTxdg

Alas, kids these days have never heard of Gilligan and his Island. One more proof that the younger generation aint got no culture.

 

[gkelly]

I think you're talking about two different things.

Bluebonnet is comparing Americans who play string instruments to Americans who don't play string instruments.

janetfan is comparing Americans who play string instruments to non-Americans who play string instruments.

janetfan, if it's true that more Americans learn to play strings than any other country, is that measured by absolute numbers or percentage of the total population. Also, does it include only bowed string instruments (violin family) or all instruments where the sound is produced by strings?

 

[dorispulaski]

If it's a trick question, and we're not limited to orchestra instruments. sure:

An acoustic guitar and an electric guitar or , not to mention a bass guitar, mandolin, ukelele, and a pedal steel are all string instruments.

And you have to remember the number of would be country music fiddlers (and electric fiddle players) too, not to mention Appalachian dulcimers and banjoes of different sorts.

 

[janetfan]

I think you're talking about two different things.

Bluebonnet is comparing Americans who play string instruments to Americans who don't play string instruments.

janetfan is comparing Americans who play string instruments to non-Americans who play string instruments.

janetfan, if it's true that more Americans learn to play strings than any other country, is that measured by absolute numbers or percentage of the total population. Also, does it include only bowed string instruments (violin family) or all instruments where the sound is produced by strings?

I thought we were referring to string instruments that are part of orchestra so guitars, banjo, mandolins etc would not apply to my answer.

My answer to your question is that it is based on absolute numbers and not a percentage of the total population.

My job was never to calculate how many people in various countries play string instruments. But it was my job to know this information as it was reported by several different sources and methods.

 

[Bluebonnet]

If it's a trick question, and we're not limited to orchestra instruments.

It's not a trick question at all. Guitar and its family don't use bows. People who learn guitars usually don't play or even listen to classical music. I know in US guitars are popular.

You are right about Texas - it is the strongest Band state in USA and fairly weak in strings.
New York and many other states are much different.

Do you know what the most young people are doing in school in "New York and many other states"?

I don't enjoy 98% of the pop music out there... it was the same when I was a teen... it sucks. (btw, I prefer Carmen to Justin Bieber)

Yeah, it sucks because we are the fractional minority in North America.

 

[janetfan]

Do you know what the most young people are doing in school in "New York and many other states"?



.

As a former marketing director for the educational division at Warner Bros Music it was my business to know these things as it related to the music activities of students.

One of the jobs I used to do was design mailing lists for our mail promotions based on a state by state and county by county expenditure by school districts on music and the arts. This was before desktop computers

I have been to the TBA and TMEA about 15 times. The first two days of the TMEA are dedicated primarily to orchestral and string music along with elementary vocal music.

I have been to hundreds of music conferences and exhibitions all over USA and Europe.

This and many other activies related to the music business was what I did for my living for many years.

Now let's get back to skating........

but first enjoy this Brass Band, Europe's most common large ensemble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al0V6FsyNWY