Ice Dance SD - Cup of China 2013

[sequinsgalore]

Pechalat/Bourzat must've appealed the fall deduction, as it's no longer in the protocols. Their SD score is now 63.60 pts - 2.10 pts off the lead, which is more easy to overcome in Ice Dance.

 

[Sara]

oh no Doris

 

[Macassar88]

Pechalat/Bourzat must've appealed the fall deduction, as it's no longer in the protocols. Their SD score is now 63.60 pts - 2.10 pts off the lead, which is more easy to overcome in Ice Dance.

I don't think that's fair. She fell on that lift.
Next thing, singles skaters will be getting deductions for falls removed by saying that it was in the choreography to fall and highlight the music...

 

[dorispulaski]

The definition of a fall is

Touching the ice with the hand(s) is not permitted. Kneeling or sliding on two knees, or sitting on the ice is not allowed and it will be considered by the Technical Panel as a fall

Here's the lift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdaUK3BAh4Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=205

If you check, Nathalie only had only one knee on the ice, not 2, so it's not a fall. It is however a bad exit from a lift, and should be about -1 GOE, IMO. (Judges gave from +2 to -2) for a GOE of -0.36 overall.)

 

[sequinsgalore]

Huang/Zheng pulled out because of illness (her), not injury, according to ISU

 

[elif]

The definition of a fall is


Here's the lift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdaUK3BAh4Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=205

If you check, Nathalie only had only one knee on the ice, not 2, so it's not a fall. It is however a bad exit from a lift, and should be about -1 GOE, IMO. (Judges gave from +2 to -2) for a GOE of -0.36 overall.)

To me this was a fall. She lost control of that blade she is skating and supported with other knee.

A Fall is defined as loss of control by a skater wi
th the result that the majority of his/her own body
weight is on the ice supported by any other part of the body other than the blades e.g. hand(s),
knee(s), back, buttock(s) or any part of the arm.

 

[Mathman]

Sequinsgalore, great signature picture! :yes:

 

[dorispulaski]

that's not the def. in the ice dance Judges' tech manual for 2013, page 4, requirements for the Short Dance
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-204785-222008-173275-0-file,00.pdf

Curiously enough, it is different than for singles.

Kneeling or sliding on two knees, or sitting on the ice is not allowed and it will be considered by the
Technical Panel as a Fall.

The same is true in the FD, p. 8

Presumably, Igor challenged, and the judges/panel bought the argument.

This isn't surprising, because a number of teams, including I&K have lifts where the lifting partner is sliding on one knee, and have for years, and aren't penalized.

Why the rule is differnt in dance, I can't tell you, but that's the rule.

 

[elif]

that's not the def. in the ice dance Judges' tech manual for 2013, page 4, requirements for the Short Dance
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-204785-222008-173275-0-file,00.pdf

Curiously enough, it is different than for singles.




The same is true in the FD, p. 8

Presumably, Igor challenged, and the judges/panel bought the argument.

This isn't surprising, because a number of teams, including I&K have lifts where the lifting partner is sliding on one knee, and have for years, and aren't penalized.

Why the rule is differnt in dance, I can't tell you, but that's the rule.

No this is same for ice dance. Page 87. I think ISU don't want skaters sliding on two knees like footballers doing when they score a goal. So there is a special deduction for that. Fall is something different.
Handbook
for Technical Panels
Ice Dance
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-204786-222009-173276-0-file,00.pdf

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-206173-223396-177182-0-file,00.pdf

 

[dcnative]

P&B are my favorite ice dance team. They did not skate their best; and the lift was not executed as well as it was at Master's. I think it was nerves. Good luck to them in the Free Dance. I can't wait to see it.

I would agree that Igor probably challenged, but her exit was definitely not without flaw. I can't believe their scores were so low on the Finnstep. Not a complaint against the judges, but they know that dance.

 

[dorispulaski]

Whichever, they appear to have bought "sliding on one knee" vs. "fall".

And yes, her exit was not without flaw. As I said, I would give the overall lift -1, despite being awesome in the air, because of the exit.

If one or more of the judges had thought it was a fall, they would have given the lift -3. Not one judge did. And looking at the replay, I don't think I would have called it a fall either.

 

[semosk8tfan]

Scores and levels are lower at this competition. Is is the skaters and their level of readiness/nerves or is it the tech panel?

 

[elif]

I can understand judges, because that fall was after the lift ended (Nathalie touched down) But I can't understand technical panel. If they bought "sliding on one knee" whatever, they can't deduct anything other than that. I think falling on your buttock should be a deduction. I hope those judges won't be at the Olympic panel.

 

[caitie]

I really like P/B's program! It wasn't skated that well obviously but if it was I think it will be one of the best SDs this season for sure. Chock and Bates's program is interesting, it has some nice moments. IA with the Eurosport dudes though; I'm not sure about the music! B/S were meh for me.

 

[gmyers]

Sometimes i think kostamarev fell during the 2006 fd but it was just a knee slide.

 

[bramweld]

Went back to look at SA and SC short dances and maybe the tech panel might have been harsh here but the dances by the top teams especially V/M, D/W, W/P, C/L, probably even H/D were a cut above in general over what we saw earlier today. B/S and P/B need to step it up, but say what it's early in the season, maybe more effort at this point has gone into the FD.

 

[Mao88]

SHORT DANCE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV (RUS) - 65.70 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT (FRA) - 63.60 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
3. Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES (USA) - 56.77 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
4. Alexandra ALDRIDGE / Daniel EATON (USA) - 52.92 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
5. Pernelle CARRON / Lloyd JONES (FRA) - 50.20 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
6. Yiyi ZHANG / Nan WU (CHN)41.79 Short Dance
7. Xiaoyang YU / Chen WANG (CHN) - 41.24 Short Dance, 2nd Copy

 

[riceplate]

B/S were skating in very intricate dance holds at the end of their program that made theirs more difficult than P/B's, but I just wish they didn't front-load this program so much as to put all the elements in the beginning like that.

HAHA yup I just re-watched Bobrova/Soloviev's short dance, and the last 45 seconds of their program has absolutely no scoring tech elements. They're pretty much in dance hold with her mouth agape throughout. If you look at the other top teams this season the programs are constructed so that all the elements are spread out. I know this isn't singles where you get a bonus at the halfway mark but I think it's a cop out to be frontloading your program like that.

 

[Tonichelle]

the SD for most of the teams just felt very sloppy and rushed... were we just that spoiled with Skate Canada and Skate America with teams that seemed more polished?