Johnny Weir Robbed Big Time

[dizzydi7]

All I know is that if I were judging the competition I would have put Johnny in first place simply because his style is more to my liking. I don't really care about what Johnny says or doesn't say----wish he would just shut up. Same goes for Evan. My only interest in them is their skating.

Johnny skates with a passion, interpretation of the music and has a smooth, deliberate style that makes for a beautiful program.

In my opinion, Evan has a mechanical approach to skating. It comes across as sloppy. His footwork which gets so much praise to me looks frantic, lots of arm flapping which he manages to flap to the music. He skates much like Pleshenko who I also feel is a mechanical skater.

Was Johnny robbed? Probably not because the rules are the rules. Did the judges score Evan too high? In my opinion----yes! In that respect maybe Johnny was robbed.

Dizzy

 

[georgia]

georgia - It may be that Johnny has taken in too much of 'what's wrong with Johnny' from various sources. He should have stayed with Tarossova even if he had to be an ex-patriot. TT knew him better than others.

Yes, indeed, it was more than just Johnny and Evan for that Nats.

Joe

It's very hard to leave your birth place. I know first hand. Especially for skating purposes. I am not sure Tatiana had it in her anymore. She looked tired of skating. It's mega pressure not only for the athletes, but for the coaches.
It's different for the kids, who come to the States looking for coaching. English is now an international language and mastered by the young.
So the adjustment is a little easier. From getting a taxi, to shopping, to as simple as going to a movie theater.
It's extremely difficult to adjust to a new environment. It took me what, 30 years?

 

[megsy]

There's a group now on Facebook - "Johnny got robbed," with Timothy Goebel having started a thread with the post:

"Ok so when you break on every landing, that constitutes a minus on GOE- I know I'm a Tech. Specialist. And when you 2 foot and dbl three out of a jump thats a mandatory -2, one for each error. Unless they were going to give Evan plus 57 on every element, it should have been impossible for him to even tie Johnnie's score. THIS IS WHY I QUIT!!!!"

There's quite a few notable other skaters in that group - a brief glance showed at least ten other Nationals competitors.

 

[Dee4707]

In my opinion, Evan has a mechanical approach to skating. It comes across as sloppy. His footwork which gets so much praise to me looks frantic, lots of arm flapping which he manages to flap to the music. He skates much like Pleshenko who I also feel is a mechanical skater.Dizzy

That's my biggest complaint about Evan. I didn't feel he had any connection to the music. Tosca is soooooo passionate and all I saw was a wild crazy frantic person on the ice!!!

Dee

 

[Babyskates]

Not Robbed

I tried to post a rebuttal to previous notes and it disappeared. Conspiracy? :scratch:

Anyway, I dont' think Johnny was robbed. The problem is the system. Johnny had the cleanest program with tough elements in it. He should be the clear winner, right? Under 6.0 I would bet he would have won. Evan had the highest scoring program under IJS. His program was jam packed with points giving him a cushion, even if he got small dings on GOEs. Johnny left out small elements that he needed to give his program full points. Johnny had higher PCS than Evan so apparently the judges thought that Johnny was the more put together of the two.

Johnny was mistaken when he said if both he and Evan skated their best, he would win because he (Johnny) is better. IJS doesn't care who the "better" skater is. Evan's long program has built in more points than Johnny's. Evan's program has wiggle room for small errors. Johnny's does not. The result is that Evan, with a flawed program can beat Johnny with small errors. Johnny was rewarded for good jumps and even on his quad toe which was 2 footed, he managed to get as high as +1 GOE. If the GOE was lowered as by all of the judges, Johnny would have lost by a bigger margin and there wouldn't have been a tie in the total. That is not how it went this time. When it was totalled up, Evan got the gold. If the judges were trying to hold Johnny down, they didn't do a good job of it. They cut it incredibly close. I don't blame the judges in this case. I blame IJS.

This is happening on all levels. At regionals I saw some seriously ugly stuff triumph over some beautiful stuff. Skaters are falling all over the ice but still placing well. Little juvenile level kids are working with major choreographers like Lori Nichol to build programs packed with points. It seem's absurd but these days, it's all about racking up points however you can.

This system also rewards speed as if it is the number 1 component of a superior program. Evan was faster in general and particularly in footwork and spins. I'm not saying he was better but he got the job done and did it with more speed.

I don't think there was any conspiracy to keep Johnny down. He got high marks for his spins despite the fact that they weren't very fast. He got good GOE for his jumps. He had a lower level straight line footwork, decreased the base value of a combination by leaving off a double. Any little thing would have put him over Evan. It almost happened. Next time, I think we can expect Johnny to blow it out.

 

[GoldMedalist]

Anyway, I dont' think Johnny was robbed. The problem is the system.

The problem is the judges, not the system. Most of Evan's jumps should have had lower GOE and his Program Components should have been lower as well.

The judges are either extremely biased towards Evan or simply don't understand how to judge.

Either answer is unacceptable.

 

[Babyskates]

There's a group now on Facebook - "Johnny got robbed," with Timothy Goebel having started a thread...

Timmy may have a bias towards Johnny. Let's not forget that Evan was training at Timmy's rink with Frank Carroll as his secondary coach. Frank was unable to take Evan as his primary student initially because he already had Tim. Then, as Tim put it, Frank "fired" Tim and took on Evan as his primary student. Timmy may be less than impartial in this case.

Anyway, he, like everyone else, is entitled to his opinion. I don't think anyone has proven a clear case of bias in any direction with the results of this Nationals.

 

[Tonichelle]

I am not sure it was bias so much as the USFSA feels they really need this rivalry the boys have... and they were trying to keep it a very close race... I honestly think the judges were playing games but would have had Johnny first if they hadn't been keeping it so close.

I was there in the Arena that night. I prefer Evan to Johnny just for myself, but Johnny has always had the better basic skating. I won't deny him that. He was also the better of the two Sunday night. Evan was clearly aware that he was the hunted and that he had to be careful. He squeaked out every landing, and blatently two footed the quad (both in the short and the long) he stood up, which is more than I thought he'd do. And he was very powerful and captured the crowd.

Johnny came out looking very nervous, but as he took his opening pose he looked ready. It was like the nervousness just melted away and he knew he was going to lay it down. He fell hard in the warm up on the quad and then went out and hit it. Granted it was two footed but it was so easy we all were asking each other if it was a triple or a quad. It just happend so fast.

Denis Petukhov created an amazing program for Johnny and Johnny came out and skated it like no body's business. I loved every second of it. He should have been first and when the scores came up and were tied (it took a minute for that to register) I was ticked. Especially after the announcement was made that Evan won the free skate. I booed right along with most of the rest of the crowd.

That being said I'm glad the crowd behaved and were accepting of the skaters. Johnny and Evan behaved and were even talking during the ceremony. I have no idea what Evan or Johnny said, but they both cracked up. If I had to nit pick them: Evan was chewing gum on the podium and that's just not cool. It also made him look like he was sneering, when really all he was doing was chewing cud (that's what gum chewing looks like to me. It's gross lol)

All in all... the judges played games and the wrong guy came out on top. As much as I would love to say Evan's a two time champ, that's not the way I want to see him win (and I'm sure he's less than thrilled it ended in controversy) but Johnny's acceptance that night was great to see and I hope they're as civil in the papers as they were that night.

 

[yelyoh]

They both skate this way at World's and Johnny beats Evan hands down thumbs up toes tapping. The international judges are not going to have the same agenda as the US judges. I hope JW lands on his feet and on the podium.

 

[attyfan]

They both skate this way at World's and Johnny beats Evan hands down thumbs up toes tapping. The international judges are not going to have the same agenda as the US judges. I hope JW lands on his feet and on the podium.

IMO, they both skate at Worlds the way they did at Nats, and neither will end up on the podium, unless others (Verner, Lambiel, Dai, Chan, Joubert -- just to name a few) make a lot of mistakes. Neither guy has enough cushion to leave a single hundredth of a point on the table.

 

[jennylovskt]

Toni, thank you so much for the first hand review. I am really touched by what you said. I am sure that Evan wants to win but not like this. Poor Evan. And poor Johnny, of course.

 

[Germanice]

They both skate this way at World's and Johnny beats Evan hands down thumbs up toes tapping. The international judges are not going to have the same agenda as the US judges. I hope JW lands on his feet and on the podium.

I truly hope you're right, but what happend 2005 in Moscow, when Lysacek won a fluky Bronze medal?

 

[emma]

Toni - thanks for sharing your first hand observations, and I hope you had a total blast at nationals!!!!

 

[MissIzzy]

I truly hope you're right, but what happend 2005 in Moscow, when Lysacek won a fluky Bronze medal?

Wasn't that one of those Worlds when noone skated up to par? I seem to remember even Stephane messing the triple axel up as per usual and winning anyway because he landed his quads, Plushenko withdrew, and Brian Joubert melted down!

Of course, considering that Brian may or may not be up to full health, Stephane hasn't been entirely consistent, Tomas Verner didn't have the best Grand Prix season and Jeffrey Buttle's was also less than stellar, the only person who I'd be willing to bet money on medaling is Daisuke Takahashi. If either of them skates clean and with the quad their chances are starting to look pretty good.

 

[Tonichelle]

Toni - thanks for sharing your first hand observations, and I hope you had a total blast at nationals!!!!

Compared to Portland and St. Louis - just where skating is concerned this was the BEST I've been to yet. All of the skaters had amazing nights and it wasn't just one splatfest after another.

I got to hang out with people I only see once a year (if that, it'd been 2 years this time around) and it was just one really big really long incredibly fun party!

 

[Ptichka]

georgia - It may be that Johnny has taken in too much of 'what's wrong with Johnny' from various sources. He should have stayed with Tarossova even if he had to be an ex-patriot. TT knew him better than others.

Leaving aside the difficulties of moving from US to Moscow, it wouldn't have worked anyway. Tarasova does not have her own ice where she can train athletes on her own. The best she would be able to do would be having Vodorezova train Johnny, and coming in as a consultant. Much better to go to Zmievskaya, who can give him her all.

 

[Tonichelle]

She and Victor seem to have a great rapport with Johnny, the little bit I got to witness anyway.

 

[Hsuhs]

There is this rumor flying around that Tarasova's been approached by Lysacek's team and that she hasn't said 'no'. I've seen it on several blogs.

tbc, I guess.

 

[Dee4707]

I As much as I would love to say Evan's a two time champ, that's not the way I want to see him win (and I'm sure he's less than thrilled it ended in controversy) but Johnny's acceptance that night was great to see and I hope they're as civil in the papers as they were that night.

Toni, I really appreciate your comments.

Dee

 

[Tonichelle]

Thanks, Dee... I've been debating back and forth whether to say anything at all... it's tough because I adore Evan's skating. But at the end of the day you want the rules followed and everything to work out fairly...