Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

[MrBerkeley]

Brian definitely broke skating protocol by revealing her program under these circumstances. He had no right so it was wrong.

OTOH, look at it objectively. Yu Na is getting a lot of criticism for her treatment of Orser right now. The one super- positive thing about her that people are discussing right now is her wonderful new program. So Brian, while acting wrongly, also injected a huge positive note about Yu Na into this melee. At least that's what he did if you see the whole picture and not just one aspect of it.

Mmm... lol . I think that's subjective, not objective.

I agree its positive right now. But a surprise birthday party > birthday party, maybe not for the receiver of the party really but for the joy of the organizer of the party. You know the expression on the birthday boy's face. That kind of stuff. The unprepared gushing of emotion etc.

To dismiss that value is to ignore Yuna's feelings on the matter which I think is willfully ignoring her on our part. Its disrespectful. As is ignoring Orser all summer (regardless of degree).

I already gave my opinion about what happened. Emotional feelings of betrayal stemming from Vancouver pressure and weirdly Sochi pressure broke them both.

 

[MrBerkeley]

Yes, Brian was a fantastic coach to Yuna, and yes, she certainly could have ended her relationship with Brian in a more respectful way.

But I do not think she was particularly disrespectful when she parted ways with Brian. Many skaters terminate their relationships with their coaches at will; a single phone call, an email, or sometimes the oral agreement would run out and the skater would simply choose not to re-enter into it, and silenty part ways with their coach. I think the last synario is what had happened here.

No she should have met him face to face. That required guts, which she lacked. So she was disrespectful (but not in a malicious I want to take you down kind of way).

And NO. We cannot say she's 19 so she should have had the guts. LOL. I've never yet met a man or woman who has not run from a confrontation (sure it may be larger than this, but that's a relative view).

She was weak about it. Wrong to do it that way. That's it. We don't know what its like to break with an OGM coach after being with you for 4 years so can't say how that would be similar to breaking with any other coach or with your piano teacher for example, unless you won international championships after such a grueling lifetime.

Edit: I find the face to face comments ridiculous. Its basically taunting someone to have the balls to stand up. While it may be true, you could use that line with anything and any position. She was wrong to do it. It doesn't mean it should blow someone away and is so horribly insulting. Kind of not making a mountain out of a molehill about the release of the LP. Sure its important. Shouldn't be shoved to the side but to read people writing its like she dragged him through the mud behind her chariot ala Achilles dragging the noble Hector lol (by the way I like Hector better)

 

[janetfan]

Brian definitely broke skating protocol by revealing her program under these circumstances. He had no right so it was wrong.

OTOH, look at it objectively. Yu Na is getting a lot of criticism for her treatment of Orser right now. The one super- positive thing about her that people are discussing right now is her wonderful new program. So Brian, while acting wrongly, also injected a huge positive note about Yu Na into this melee. At least that's what he did if you see the whole picture and not just one aspect of it.

Interesting choice of words. To continue our English lessons "melee" is derived from French and is used to descibe a bunch of people fighting in a very disorganized manner.

I would rate it worse than a kerfuffle but not sure about brouhaha.
A melee might be more violent but a brouhaha can feel more annoying.

I guess one would have to be there to make the call.

 

[aftertherain]

Interesting choice of words. To continue our English lessons "melee" is derived from French and is used to descibe a bunch of people fighting in a very disorganized manner.

I would rate it worse than a kerfuffle but not sure about brouhaha.
A melee might be more violent but a brouhaha can feel more annoying.

I guess one would have to be there to make the call.

This made me laugh. Thank you!

 

[Spun Silver]

I am there. I'm including the fans. : )

 

[seniorita]

Interesting choice of words. To continue our English lessons "melee" is derived from French and is used to descibe a bunch of people fighting in a very disorganized manner.

I would rate it worse than a kerfuffle but not sure about brouhaha.
A melee might be more violent but a brouhaha can feel more annoying.

I guess one would have to be there to make the call.

but now French write it mêlée and it is the best chocolate muffins in the neighborhood

 

[janetfan]

I am there. I'm including the fans. : )

Fair enough Spun.

I have an urge to shout out Go Yunaaaaa!
and also
Go Christinaaaaaaa
and Go Adammmm
and Go Min-Jungggg

Mr Berkeley repeatledly made a case which Yuna and Brian should both be able to identify with:

Silence is Golden.

 

[R.D.]

Since I m practising my english here, what is brouhaha?

The exact situation you see unfolding before your eyes.

 

[janetfan]

but now French write it mêlée and it is the best chocolate muffins in the neighborhood

There are already enough fights at GS so for the sake of peace the French spelling is OK.

Your "kerfuffle" comment made me laugh and also think of ant. Where is he?
And where is Joesitz? And kwanfordwife? I hope they are all well and wanted to say I miss reading their posts.

 

[seniorita]

I know where is Ant only, but I cannot reveal his place before he wishes to do it in the season cause I might get a legal note from his company.

 

[i love to skate]

I know where is Ant only, but I cannot reveal his place before he wishes to do it in the season cause I might get a legal note from his company.

 

[Olympia]

I know where is Ant only, but I cannot reveal his place before he wishes to do it in the season cause I might get a legal note from his company.

Seniorita, thanks for the laugh!

By the way, I have a really obscure word for you: upscuddle. It means a quarrel, and I originally thought it was Scots English, but the only source I can find labels it as Appalachian Mountain dialect. In any case, it's another word like brouhaha that almost sounds like what it means, doesn't it?

Not that I'm trying to trivialize what's going on, but I think sometimes we have to have a bit of comic relief. Normally skating is my escape from the trials of real life. Now it seems we need to find an escape from the trials of skating!

 

[bekalc]

I'll say it this the music thing isn't that big of a deal in someways in and of itself. I almost felt Brian slipped into the old "coach role" He mightn't have meant anything about it. BUT then again he knows how Yu-na is.

What is a big deal though is the concept that the music is confidential information right now about Yu-na's training process, and Orser just revealed it If he will reveal that, what will he reveal next? (And that's a question of if he did it on purpose). The fact that he's the Director of the Cricket Club and just did this because he got in a personal rift with a student, is troubling. And yes, it could cause trouble for David. Not at all because David himself isn't trustworthy but because Brian proved himself to be untrustworthy.

And then there's inviting a reporter into the Cricket Club, who wrote about seeing Yu-na cry. Once again IMO unacceptable on Orser's part-as the Director of the Cricket Club-and as Yu-na is a member of the Club-he's suppose to respect her privacy. Even if he has issues with the split.

So in that since I actually think it was the first real professional thing ATS did when they told Orser to stop or they will take action. They didn't say they will take action for revealing the music, but rather just action if he continues to talk about her training, etc. Its fair and they did him a favor to by telling him to shut up.

Orser's slip suggests that it was definetly time for him to stop talking. And I'll say this BC, you don't know what went down between Yu-na and Brian. We are talking about a situation that probably had a TON of miscommunication, language barriers, and clutural differences. The way a Korean may handle such a break up, might be different from how a Canadian person will handle a break up. And a lot of Skating Parents end the relationship for their kids. I mean you have to understand this is a 19 year old, how many 19 year olds have to fire people? And how many 19 year olds will feel comfortable firing a former authority figure. For a lot of skaters its highly emotional to break up with the coach and the parents/agent step in. Its not meant necessarily to mean I hate you to the coach. I know you can say "suck it up" but really these are teenagers. The fact that Yu-na talked with him and Tracy later on suggests that she wasn't necessarily trying to be rude.

I think Brian was with Doug Leigh most of his career as a skater, and also this was his first student publically leaving him. And I think a huge part of the problem is Brian himself doesn't know how to handle it. Even if Yu-na did all of this in a way he doesn't like, it wasn't absolutely necessary for Brian to do somethings he's done. Hopefully this whole thing will be a learning experience for all.

 

[Noah Body]

Oh for the love of... People are being way too overdramatic about all of this. Look at Orser's quotes... they are all 95% about how great Yuna is, and 4.5% giving details and explaining things he is asked about. 0.5% are kind of, a little negative (about how the decision was made or Yuna's role in it or whatever). But he is overwhelmingly positive and kind about Yuna (read his actual, raw quotes, not the press spin on his quotes).

Like the current drama about him revealing her program. What he said was "her program is great, it's amazing, she's great" and then he mentioned to the music. Big wup. If you look at Adam Rippon's blog, he talks about his fall program in great detail. Yuna is not competing in the Grand Prix this fall. Anyone going to the Cricket Club can hear her music being played. It is not a state secret. Yes, he broke protocol (bad Brian), but this was certainly no "betrayal" and will not hurt Yuna competitively.

The real bad guys in this are ATS (or at least dumb guys), who are clearly one of the worst management companies ever. The point of a management company is not to win the PR war ... the point is to not have the PR war in the first place. This was completely and totally avoidable if they had the least bit of sense. If you can read Korean, you can see Yuna is getting killed on the Korean bulletin boards. She really has a big PR problem in Korea, thanks to 2-3 years of mismanagement.

 

[samsarah]

No she should have met him face to face. That required guts, which she lacked. So she was disrespectful (but not in a malicious I want to take you down kind of way).

And NO. We cannot say she's 19 so she should have had the guts. LOL. I've never yet met a man or woman who has not run from a confrontation (sure it may be larger than this, but that's a relative view).

She was weak about it. Wrong to do it that way. That's it. We don't know what its like to break with an OGM coach after being with you for 4 years so can't say how that would be similar to breaking with any other coach or with your piano teacher for example, unless you won international championships after such a grueling lifetime.

Edit: I find the face to face comments ridiculous. Its basically taunting someone to have the balls to stand up. While it may be true, you could use that line with anything and any position. She was wrong to do it. It doesn't mean it should blow someone away and is so horribly insulting. Kind of not making a mountain out of a molehill about the release of the LP. Sure its important. Shouldn't be shoved to the side but to read people writing its like she dragged him through the mud behind her chariot ala Achilles dragging the noble Hector lol (by the way I like Hector better)

I do not think it was her guts or her weakness which prevented her from confronting Brian. It would have been careful consideration on her part not to further damage Brian's (already) unstable emotions. Looking at Brian’s reaction after the split, I think Yuna was right about her decision. He looks to me devastated (maybe vengeful is the correct word, but I do not want to use this word since it will be disrespectful) after the split. He had done interviews with practically every major media agencies in Korea, insisting it was Yuna’s mom and not Yuna’s decision to split up with him.

If Yuna had confronted him and told him face to face that it was over, I still do not think Brian would have accepted it, that it was over. Even after Yuna made her statements in Cyword and twitter, that she knew about the split and it was her decision, Brian continues to disbelieve her. It seems to me that he cannot accept the fact that Yuna may have been the decision maker. His exact words to CTV, or maybe Sun, (or maybe both) is that “she is just a kid, you know that they try to protect their parents.”

So, hypothetically speaking, if Yuna did fire Brian after meeting him face to face, he still could have felt insulted and disrespected. Only this time his reasons might have been slightly different. He might have felt disrespected by the wording of her notice of termination, its timing, or her demeanor..blah blah. Or, even worse, he could have disbelieved Yuna’s words entirely. Because, Yuna is only a kid and she mindlessly follows her mother’s orders

 

[i love to skate]

Oh for the love of... People are being way too overdramatic about all of this. Look at Orser's quotes... they are all 95% about how great Yuna is, and 4.5% giving details and explaining things he is asked about. 0.5% are kind of, a little negative (about how the decision was made or Yuna's role in it or whatever). But he is overwhelmingly positive and kind about Yuna (read his actual, raw quotes, not the press spin on his quotes).

Like the current drama about him revealing her program. What he said was "her program is great, it's amazing, she's great" and then he mentioned to the music. Big wup. If you look at Adam Rippon's blog, he talks about his fall program in great detail. Yuna is not competing in the Grand Prix this fall. Anyone going to the Cricket Club can hear her music being played. It is not a state secret. Yes, he broke protocol (bad Brian), but this was certainly no "betrayal" and will not hurt Yuna competitively.

The real bad guys in this are ATS (or at least dumb guys), who are clearly one of the worst management companies ever. The point of a management company is not to win the PR war ... the point is to not have the PR war in the first place. This was completely and totally avoidable if they had the least bit of sense. If you can read Korean, you can see Yuna is getting killed on the Korean bulletin boards. She really has a big PR problem in Korea, thanks to 2-3 years of mismanagement.

What a great post! Welcome to the forums! :thumbsup:

I agree with your observations of ATS - they have done nothing to help this situation. How can they not even employ a skilled translator to give interviews?? This boggles my mind.

I do not think it was her guts or her weakness which prevented her from confronting Brian. It would have been careful consideration on her part not to further damage Brian's (already) unstable emotions. Looking at Brian’s reaction after the split, I think Yuna was right about her decision. He looks to me devastated (maybe vengeful is the correct word, but I do not want to use this word since it will be disrespectful) after the split. He had done interviews with practically every major media agencies in Korea, insisting it was Yuna’s mom and not Yuna’s decision to split up with him.

So what is the worst thing that Brian said? That Yuna seemed to be confused about the situation and was in tears one day? Why is that so bad? To me that does not come across as vengeful - at all. Then he was saying how absolutely wonderful her new long program is - and the music slipped out. Considering she will only compete with this program one time this season (maybe none at all) I don't see how this is such a devastating incident. It was a slip.

As for unstable emotions - Brian has been through much worse in his life; the 1988 Olympics, his mother's death and it being publicly reported that he was gay (he was not the one to announce this). In this situation, do you know what Brian was most worried about and scared of? Fathers not putting their sons in figure skating for fear that it would turn them gay. That gives you an idea of how much he cares about his sport and others. The breakup is simply a little bump in his life.

As for giving interviews to "every Korean media outlet" he probably just wanted to get them over with. He of all people understands how the Korean media is, and he didn't want to be dealing with them all season long.

 

[MrBerkeley]

Oh for the love of... People are being way too overdramatic about all of this. Look at Orser's quotes... they are all 95% about how great Yuna is, and 4.5% giving details and explaining things he is asked about. 0.5% are kind of, a little negative (about how the decision was made or Yuna's role in it or whatever). But he is overwhelmingly positive and kind about Yuna (read his actual, raw quotes, not the press spin on his quotes).

Like the current drama about him revealing her program. What he said was "her program is great, it's amazing, she's great" and then he mentioned to the music. Big wup. If you look at Adam Rippon's blog, he talks about his fall program in great detail. Yuna is not competing in the Grand Prix this fall. Anyone going to the Cricket Club can hear her music being played. It is not a state secret. Yes, he broke protocol (bad Brian), but this was certainly no "betrayal" and will not hurt Yuna competitively.

The real bad guys in this are ATS (or at least dumb guys), who are clearly one of the worst management companies ever. The point of a management company is not to win the PR war ... the point is to not have the PR war in the first place. This was completely and totally avoidable if they had the least bit of sense. If you can read Korean, you can see Yuna is getting killed on the Korean bulletin boards. She really has a big PR problem in Korea, thanks to 2-3 years of mismanagement.

95%? Hm. I mentioned yesterday about how Orser is talking positively about Yuna but that I was getting the impression he knows the right answers, words, and mannerisms and is speaking/ trying to display them but his heart is confused and so kept rambling on until stopping yesterday.

If you have emotionally valuable family pictures and I step on them, no big deal right? Hey they're just pictures. No permanent damage. Big deal... :think:

That is a very narrow view. What you value may not be what others value. Too mushy for you? Toughen up? No nurture in you? The very quality that makes Orser a good and supportive coach is nurture.

Sure it won't hurt Yuna competitively. Nobody was really talking about competitively. You're trying to dismiss something as "less" important. "Less important" is a subjective and relative phrase.

Example: If I have a picture of my father and you stepped on it, its not like you stepped on my father (lol). Apology and I'd definitely move on. Nothing and I'd probably still move on. But if you dismiss it or belittle its significance by saying so what I stepped on your picture... I'd still probably move on... (maybe with a single annoyed huff) but it would be insulting me and not just my father since the picture is important to me.

Sometimes you have to say grow up. But if its an artistic piece of work I disagree. I could tell every art collector to stop buying art and go pay for food for starving people. I'd be absolutely wrong to say so because its their money, their art. Basic staple of respect. I should spend my OWN money for starving people. And leave it at that. (That is an example).

Rippon talked about on his blog. Yeah, Rippon. Not saying I don't agree with you. Frankly I don't think it even has real relevance to the original point. Its almost like ATS is trying to salvage their reputation. But if its important to Yuna, regardless of whether Orser knew it or not, purpose or not, it IS a big deal if you care about her an iota (edit: aka respect her choice).

As for ATS, oh absolutely but they're a new agency. 2-3 years is incorrect. IB sports (?? someone verify me on this) managed her before that IMG (the same IMG with Orser? Where's the stirring the pot icon lol).

Yuna is the biggest symbol of Korea right now lol. Control and contain the PR war into something manageable and ordered. There is no way to avoid the PR once it got rolling. ATS is making it roll faster. :disapp:

 

[MrBerkeley]

What a great post! Welcome to the forums! :thumbsup:

I agree with your observations of ATS - they have done nothing to help this situation. How can they not even employ a skilled translator to give interviews?? This boggles my mind.



So what is the worst thing that Brian said? That Yuna seemed to be confused about the situation and was in tears one day? Why is that so bad? To me that does not come across as vengeful - at all. Then he was saying how absolutely wonderful her new long program is - and the music slipped out. Considering she will only compete with this program one time this season (maybe none at all) I don't see how this is such a devastating incident. It was a slip.

As for unstable emotions - Brian has been through much worse in his life; the 1988 Olympics, his mother's death and it being publicly reported that he was gay (he was not the one to announce this). In this situation, do you know what Brian was most worried about and scared of? Fathers not putting their sons in figure skating for fear that it would turn them gay. That gives you an idea of how much he cares about his sport and others. The breakup is simply a little bump in his life.

As for giving interviews to "every Korean media outlet" he probably just wanted to get them over with. He of all people understands how the Korean media is, and he didn't want to be dealing with them all season long.

He said she was a nice, loving, talented controlled puppet of a human being (it COULD come off that way lol). I think because he didn't want to attack Yuna and absolutely NEVER at ANY point in this debacle considered Yuna an enemy or opposition (some of the fans of Brian Orser... another story), he kind of tried to shift the blame away from her and got a bit carried away. But hey, people read it with whatever slant they'd like I guess.

Brian has definitely been through a lot in his life. It doesn't somehow make you immune to the next hurt or hurt less at the next hurt, just remain composed and doggedly keep moving forward.

I hope you're not suggesting Brian Orser is less hurt about this (justifiable or not) because he's been through some rough times (different in nature too, media used to say she was like a daughter to him, which would be something new).

Edit: That's whats frustrating to me. I know Orser thinks of Yuna sort of like his child. He's invested so much. She got him into coaching in the first place even though he wasn't certain about it and its become such a big part of his life. He's a tough guy but this is a big big blow. And I DOUBT he truly likes people attacking Yuna over this. AT ALL.

Edit2: I'm kind of going over the post Yuna wrote again and wow... some notable words there. "The other side" is that a correct translation? I'm guessing Korean forums are ripping her apart right now. Canada & Korea ripping her apart. Must be nice to be Yuna right now. People need to cool off and get a bit less zealous in protecting their "hero/ friend." The fans are doing the burning of bridges for them.

"I got dumped as a coach."
"Some issues led to us dumping him as a coach." (dumping a coach in Korea apparently unacceptable and huge sign of disrespectful and dishonorable even if there were reasons to).
"No reasons at all. Mother is a controlling mother Yuna had no part in this."
"Stop telling a lie. I made the decision."
"Things not well for a long time."
"Mao?" (Lol sorry Mao).
"The other side can learn from this"
"She has a good long program. Very good."
"What!! You gave away my long program without my consent?!!!"

... "Mao??"

 

[Tonichelle]

ever since this news broke all Ive heard in my head is Neil Dimond's "Story of My Life"... Such a great song for Brian's signature...

 

[colleen o'neill]

You know, as emotional as this has been / is for Brian and Yuna...I think we're all getting totally caught up in that aspect and forgetting that ATS's tactics ( I'm not so sure it's all inexperience or stupidity ) have really messed with Brian's professional life and income for this season. :scowl:

By leaving things ambiguous for as long as they did , they made it less and less likely that Brian would be able to fill the gap left in his schedule when Yuna withdrew from the GP . The closer we come to the beginning of the season, the more likely students have already made their plans. Then, did ATS mean to leave his status ambiguous at the Aug.2 meeting, trusting that Brian would still just wait ,and therefore still have some availability when World's is a couple of months away ( if Yuna really does compete ).. Since he took it as a final decision and eventually made the announcement , they pull Min Jeung as well , which I'm sure they knew he could have predicted, if he didn't play along. So he loses the income from 2 students for this season..And people are thinking Brian's vindictive? Well, he must have been spitting nails!...yet he's remained positive in his comments about Yuna herself...and when he referred to her protecting her Mum he even said he found that noble in her.

I'm glad he's speaking through his agent now...maybe this will die down.But considering the way his livelihood as well as his emotions have been tampered with ,I'm not surprised things got a bit out of control.:sheesh: