Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged | Page 49 | Golden Skate

Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

lowtherlore said:
Orser may have been in closer communication with IMG and the Japanese federation than with Yu-Na recently. During this summer, there was a group of junior skaters from Japan training at the Cricket Club, and personnel from the Japanese federation frequented the club for monitoring. Yu-Na has been training by herself since June. Later in an interview, Orser said Yu-Na’s side might have felt neglected.

Whether the Mao coaching proposal was real is uncertain. Orser had been consistent in his remarks about the Mao contact, until he denied it only in his last interview before he finally stopped talking. Of course Mao, IMG (agent of Mao and Orser) and the Japanese federation have denied this. Regardless of the Mao situation, probably by now Orser’s interests are more in line with IMG’s and the Japanese federation’s, which are much bigger than Yu-Na and All That Sports (Yu-Na’s own agency). Of course nothing’s wrong with it, as it’s his business. But for Yu-Na the club might have become uninhabitable because of this shift in his priorities. If this was the case, it must have been obvious to Orser too, as after all these years he doesn’t need to be reminded where Yu-Na came from and what her needs are. It’s OK that he cannot meet her needs anymore due to priorities.
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:confused:

Here's what I don't get the whole IMG-JSF angle of this affair: I have no idea why people would think that Yu-Na would be particularly offended/shocked by Brian's close relationship with IMG. Brian Orser has been an IMG client for years, long before Yu-Na came to be his student (and if I recall correctly, he's been with IMG even before Yu-Na was born). Long business relationships like that tend to create close ties, and surely Yu-Na would have left Brian long ago if Brian's close ties with IMG are the issue here. Plus, is Brian's having both Yu-Na's and IMG's interests at heart truly mutually exclusive? I doubt the entire IMG is out to get Yu-Na--her team's beef is with IMG Korea, IIRC.

And about the JSF thing....well, there have been groups of Japanese junior skaters, as well as other skaters from many different countries, training at the Cricket Club every summer long before Yu-Na was a member of the Club. Surely Yu-Na would have, again, left the Cricket Club long before if she was truly uncomfortable with the presence of some Japanese junior skaters who in no way pose any threat to her competitively. And all this talk about Brian's interests being more in line with the JSF's--are they anyways? He pretty much clearly indicated that he has no interest in coaching Mao Asada, the pride and joy of the JSF, and besides, what's wrong with Brian working with Japanese skaters who pose no direct threat to Yu-Na (e.g. someone like Yukiko Fujisawa or Nobunari Oda, etc)? Is Brian supposed to have absolutely zero contact with all Japanese skaters based on their ethnicity simply because Yu-Na is his pupil? It's not even like Brian has declared himself the new Nikolai Morozov, circa 2008. All this talk about Brian working with the JSF appears to be hearsay, anyways...is Brian even directly working with any Japanese skaters right now?
 
I came across this thread on the yunaforum while looking for something else. The thread, called "The Brian Orser I Know," was written by a long-time Brian Orser fan who ran a newsletter for several years. I thought it was really thoughtful and it also has some responses from some GS posters (Daniel5555, Sylvia, Beklac....etc). I think it says much of the same of other posts, but the initial poster (who made several posts in this thread) managed to tie it all together nicely.

http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2031&st=0
 
Also my initial research was to make this point about the whole Evil IMG caused all this theory:

It is definitely not mutually exclusive for Brian to be with IMG and coach Yuna. Several IMG skaters have skated in her shows! There are several in her All That Skate shows alone:
Jamie Salé & David Pelletier and John Zimmerman skated in the Seoul show and Shen Xue & Zhao Hongbo and Tanith Belbin & Ben Agosto will be skating in the LA show.
 
seniorita said:
Hunday match isnt the show that IMG skaters take part?
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Oh :) you mean the Hyundai SM show.

I thought the SM show was hosted by Hyundai, who is also one of Yuna's major sponsers. So it will be incorrect to say any shows in Korea are hosted by IMG.

Besides, based on what I heard from my acquaintances who attended the show, (the show is not that well known in Korea) over 50% of the audience were Hyundai clients, and the main purpose of the show was to promote their product. So there would have been less competing interest even if the shows were hosted on the same day.

Also, after ATS started managing Yuna, this year's Hyundai show and ATS show were held in different dates.
Afterall, it was IB sports, Yuna's former management, who had a multimillion dollar lawsuit against IMG, not Yuna :)
 
R.D.
Can't disagree here. How many "newcomers" in both this thread and the one on FSU came out of the woodwork just to put in their 2 cents in? And mostly going in on Orser, too. Fanboys...(or the lesser term more frequently used- "bots")

Always weary when a person is perceived in such a high manner, put on such a tall pedestal. It almost makes me wish to look for faults in said person just to prove these fanboys wrong. But I don't need to do that- eventually, true colors will be shown and these people will defend her to the hilt anyway. she just CANNOT DO WRONG NO MATTER WHAT in these folks' eyes. The perfect person is a fantasy...and in the case of many people who idolize a celebrity, that fantasy is projected onto him/her...and should the fan ever meet his/her idol, reality comes crashing down...
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While I agree with you generally, I would like to know what are those people who you include in the list of those fanboys. I don't want to try to convince you about anything, but I'm really interested in this, so feel free to PM me if you have anything to say.

You say, that Michelle Kwan is a walking PC/PR dictionary. I'm not her fan, but I would disagree with you. What else, besides your unrelated to Michelle experience tells you, that she is not really like this and she is not thinking what she says? What makes you think that she can't be very good person (not even an ideal)? I find those prejudices really baseless. I know that there are people who can be considered heroes by their acts and their personalities. I never idolize anyone, including Yuna. She is not my idol, she is my hero.

Hanaka
By the way, there's something I'm interested in. Why does Yuna always set the date of her company's shows on the same date of IMG shows? She did it twice, so this is not a coincidence, but it is clear it was from her intention.
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In Korea the show of ATS was not a competition to Japanese IMG show. Korean IMG show which featured Mao Asada was held on different date. Is there any show that will go on the same date with ATS LA?

Wow, how scary! Mao had a betrayer in her side! who simply ignored her determination(she repeatedly made it clear to media that she would search for a Japanese caoch.)and will and hope to remain in Japan with her family and friends , train at Chukyo University Rink (and the owner of the rink, Chukyo University wants her to remain there because it makes a huge PR for them.)in Nagoya with her mates like Kozuka, and to have a Japanese coach who can communicate with her in Japanese!
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I agree with you. It's ridiculous that Mao's name is there. She has nothing to do with this.

Mrs. P
I came across this thread on the yunaforum while looking for something else. The thread, called "The Brian Orser I Know," was written by a long-time Brian Orser fan who ran a newsletter for several years. I thought it was really thoughtful and it also has some responses from some GS posters (Daniel5555, Sylvia, Beklac....etc). I think it says much of the same of other posts, but the initial poster (who made several posts in this thread) managed to tie it all together nicely.
Click to expand...
I referred to this thread not so long ago.

Also my initial research was to make this point about the whole Evil IMG caused all this theory:

It is definitely not mutually exclusive for Brian to be with IMG and coach Yuna. Several IMG skaters have skated in her shows! There are several in her All That Skate shows alone:
Jamie Salé & David Pelletier and John Zimmerman skated in the Seoul show and Shen Xue & Zhao Hongbo and Tanith Belbin & Ben Agosto will be skating in the LA show.
Click to expand...
The Evil IMG conspiracy is baseless, in my opinion.

skatinginbc
Daniel, p (= p'→q') → q (= p"→q"). If you understand it, good. If not, let's move on.
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Can you write something relevant to the topic?
 
Mrs. P said:
I came across this thread on the yunaforum while looking for something else. The thread, called "The Brian Orser I Know," was written by a long-time Brian Orser fan who ran a newsletter for several years. I thought it was really thoughtful and it also has some responses from some GS posters (Daniel5555, Sylvia, Beklac....etc). I think it says much of the same of other posts, but the initial poster (who made several posts in this thread) managed to tie it all together nicely.

http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2031&st=0
Click to expand...

Very edifying to read. Thanks for the link! The first person who responded made some excellent points, and I think they explain the situation in a way that makes sense. Like both of the people on that thread, I have liked and admired both YuNa and Brian, and I can't imagine that under their facades, either of them is a snake. Both are obviously honorable people. It's very easy for one party to see something one way and another party to see it another way without either of them being a liar about it. (I had one unusually forceful aunt who could see black as white and white as black and be so sure of it that I would begin to question what I saw. She wasn't trying to pull one over on me. She just came at things from a completely different angle.)

I'm so glad this poster spoke out so eloquently for Brian. What a lovely thing to do. He has deep roots in skating and deserves to be supported. And so does YuNa. Whatever went on does not diminish the quality of either person, or their remarkable achievement. I hope they both can remember that as time distances them from the unfortunate events of the summer.
 
Mathman said:
Obviously Orser's actions could be construed in many different ways.

From a logical point of view it would have been more interesting if All That had said, "We can reach no other conclusion than that this move was intended to hurt the skater."

This statement could conceivably be true, I suppose, depending on the limits of the imagination of "We."

Anyway, discursive natural language is immensely richer in nuance than the kind of statements that we apply the rules of formal propositional calculus to. To me, the more important point is that I am pretty sure Brian did not make this announcement with any sort of malice toward Yu-na.
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You cunning man, HAHA!

If I intented to be malice yet logically sound, I would have said, "Given the circumstances, we can not exclude the possibility that it was a move intended to hurt the skater."
 
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evangeline said:
:confused:

Here's what I don't get the whole IMG-JSF angle of this affair: I have no idea why people would think that Yu-Na would be particularly offended/shocked by Brian's close relationship with IMG. Brian Orser has been an IMG client for years, long before Yu-Na came to be his student (and if I recall correctly, he's been with IMG even before Yu-Na was born). Long business relationships like that tend to create close ties, and surely Yu-Na would have left Brian long ago if Brian's close ties with IMG are the issue here. Plus, is Brian's having both Yu-Na's and IMG's interests at heart truly mutually exclusive? I doubt the entire IMG is out to get Yu-Na--her team's beef is with IMG Korea, IIRC.

And about the JSF thing....well, there have been groups of Japanese junior skaters, as well as other skaters from many different countries, training at the Cricket Club every summer long before Yu-Na was a member of the Club. Surely Yu-Na would have, again, left the Cricket Club long before if she was truly uncomfortable with the presence of some Japanese junior skaters who in no way pose any threat to her competitively. And all this talk about Brian's interests being more in line with the JSF's--are they anyways? He pretty much clearly indicated that he has no interest in coaching Mao Asada, the pride and joy of the JSF, and besides, what's wrong with Brian working with Japanese skaters who pose no direct threat to Yu-Na (e.g. someone like Yukiko Fujisawa or Nobunari Oda, etc)? Is Brian supposed to have absolutely zero contact with all Japanese skaters based on their ethnicity simply because Yu-Na is his pupil? It's not even like Brian has declared himself the new Nikolai Morozov, circa 2008. All this talk about Brian working with the JSF appears to be hearsay, anyways...is Brian even directly working with any Japanese skaters right now?
Click to expand...

It may not be unreasonable to assume that these usually normal relationships and background events took on a more bothersome tone once rumors start circulating about possibility, unless personally disclaimed, of Orser's contact with the rival(or vice versa).

One of those "Sixth Sense" now I get it movie moment.
 
Michelle/Yu Na

MrBerkley, you are right, Michelle's break with Frank wasn't as nasty as this one is. Michelle actually went in person and talked to Frank. While he truly didn't understand why it happened, they both handled it in a dignified and decent manner.

This whole episode lacks diginity and decency. It was done in a very backhanded manner and caused hard feelings on all sides. I am with Brian Orser on this and I was with Frank before. Skaters need to realize that it takes a group effort to get them to the top. Without a first rate coach, they are toast. Once they get to the top, they would still be wise to keep the coach that got them there. That is why I hold Evan in such high regard. He knows how he got that OGM and that Frank was instrumental. He made sure everyone knew that. A very decent thing to do.
 
samsarah said:
Oh :) you mean the Hyundai SM show.


Besides, based on what I heard from my acquaintances who attended the show, (the show is not that well known in Korea) over 50% of the audience were Hyundai clients, and the main purpose of the show was to promote their product. So there would have been less competing interest even if the shows were hosted on the same day.
Click to expand...
Hunday show is the show Yuna was also participant in 2006, then 2007 got fire and the rest is known, I think it is a big show and eveyr year it goes bigger, this year it gathered all the Olympic Medalists, i find strange koreans dont know it cause it has big coverage and looks like a great deal of ads are happening. I mean in europe it is known, how is not known in korea?
 
kyla2 said:
This whole episode lacks diginity and decency. It was done in a very backhanded manner and caused hard feelings on all sides. I am with Brian Orser on this and I was with Frank before. Skaters need to realize that it takes a group effort to get them to the top. Without a first rate coach, they are toast. Once they get to the top, they would still be wise to keep the coach that got them there. That is why I hold Evan in such high regard. He knows how he got that OGM and that Frank was instrumental. He made sure everyone knew that. A very decent thing to do.
Click to expand...

:scratch:

While agree that the Orser/Kim breakup could have been handeled much better (and I am even going to go into who's fault it was), I don't see how Yuna failed to acknowledge Brian's contribution to her OGM. Even in her last statement about the breakup, she seemed very grateful to him.
 
seniorita said:
Hunday show is the show Yuna was also participant in 2006, then 2007 got fire and the rest is known, I think it is a big show and eveyr year it goes bigger, this year it gathered all the Olympic Medalists, i find strange koreans dont know it cause it has big coverage and looks like a great deal of ads are happening. I mean in europe it is known, how is not known in korea?
Click to expand...

This show is known in North America as well.
 
Daniel5555 said:
R.D.

Mrs. P

I referred to this thread not so long ago.
Click to expand...


If you did, I didn't see it in the myriad of posts made on this thread. In any case, it looks like others did not see it either, so I'm glad to have linked it here.
 
You say, that Michelle Kwan is a walking PC/PR dictionary. I'm not her fan, but I would disagree with you. What else, besides your unrelated to Michelle experience tells you, that she is not really like this and she is not thinking what she says? What makes you think that she can't be very good person (not even an ideal)? I find those prejudices really baseless.
Click to expand...

You must understand, I'm not saying she isn't a good person. (No way to know unless we're part of her immediate friends/family circle.) I'm saying that there is often a difference between the way people act when the cameras are rolling, and the way these same people act when the cameras are off. I've seen this firsthand...

Her choice of words often times leaves me with the impression that she is going out of her way to be less candid and more PC. Nothing wrong with that, but don't you think for a minute that it means that she's this perfect "can-do-no-wrong" angel. (Think Tiger Woods, how he was portrayed by the press and fans before his private dealings came out.) Just like Yuna- so many of her fanboys (or "bots", insert your favorite word here) always MUST blame the other party in case of conflict or controversy. Maybe, guys, it's possible that Yuna took a misstep or two as well? Especially her Twitter outburst? But of course, such action will be defended with blind fandom. It can NEVER be her fault...



___________________________

Anyway, not too related to the above, but MK was a guest analyst for NBC sports during their much abbreviated coverage of the 2009 World Championships in LA. Now, the point of an analyst is to dissect the field, each competitor, weigh the strengths and weaknesses among the athletes to reach a prediction as to who might come out on top. She was paired with Dick Button and Bob Costas in the booth. At the conclusion of the broadcast, Costas posed a short series of questions to Button and Kwan. Now, to be fair to MK, Button has a lot more experience as a commentator, and isn't afraid to speak his mind about what he thinks about a particular skater. But what struck me about MK is that she always seemed to go out of her way not to say anything controversial or critical about any of the skaters. Once Costas FINALLY stopped asking her about a possible return (seriously), he then pointed out that only 2 Americans are going to the Olys. MK responded with "but we're improving, Americans are improving" (Button laughed) She clearly tried to put a positive spin on the whole thing. :laugh:

Sorry Michelle, but our lady skaters are NOT improving...with the exception of Nagasu's surprisingly good Olympic turnout, we're right back where we started once Meissner and Hughes sunk in the standings. Tell it like it is for once! :p



I know that there are people who can be considered heroes by their acts and their personalities. I never idolize anyone, including Yuna. She is not my idol, she is my hero.
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Idol, hero, same difference to me :p :p

(half-kidding, btw, hence the :p )
 
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kyla2 said:
Skaters need to realize that it takes a group effort to get them to the top. Without a first rate coach, they are toast. Once they get to the top, they would still be wise to keep the coach that got them there. That is why I hold Evan in such high regard. He knows how he got that OGM and that Frank was instrumental. He made sure everyone knew that. A very decent thing to do.
Click to expand...

Significant difference in circumstances though: With Kim/Orser this happened AFTER she won the OGM. Yuna, for whatever reason, stuck it out with Brian until she won that OGM, then the differences began. However, with Kwan/Carroll, MK broke it off a few months BEFORE the Olympics. It wasn't so much the decision to let go of Carroll as it was the decision to not have someone to replace him that I thought was a completely idiotic move. Sometimes I wonder if deep down she regrets doing that, but what's done is done and we have no choice but to move forward.
 
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