Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged | Page 56 | Golden Skate

Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

Are you kidding? Mao is just as much known in Japan as Yuna is in Korea. Mao is probably happier because she is able to live in her hometown and be close to her family and friends.

Mao is not as dominant (I don't mean in terms of fans but in RELATION to other names) a brand as Yuna in their respective countries. It doesn't even come close.

Japan, there are other stars. Yuna is the only one. At least in figure skating.
 
Mao is not as dominant (I don't mean in terms of fans but in RELATION to other names) a brand as Yuna in their respective countries. It doesn't even come close.

Japan, there are other stars. Yuna is the only one. At least in figure skating.

The only athletes she would lose to would be the top baseball players like Ichiro. She far exceeds any other female athletes in Japan. Anyways, I was just responding to the claim that Mao has it freer in Japan which I don't think it's the case.
 
Sorry, I've not checked the 73 previous pages of this thread, but if someone was worried by the training environment in Toronto, Adam Rippon has spoken:



Source: Icenetwork (if I write the link the post disappears hahaha, I'm sorry)

Lol I tried too. Doesn't work. Go to the newest article from icenetwork if you want to read it and scroll down to Adam Rippon. I'm glad they haven't been affected by this.

Also to note, seems they knew about this for a while and seem to all be friends or w/e. To think Yuna was still skating at the CC with everyone knowing something was up... that's troubling to note. It also was obviously NOT unexpected or a surprise, although it probably still WAS a shock.

Given that Brian figured Yuna would change her mother's mind, I'm GUESSING that Brian figured Mom was behind this for a REASON. ATS anyone?

LOL WONDER IF IMG WANTED YUNA BACK. Instead of Yuna's mom wanting Orser/ 2 skaters to join ATS (which seems a ridiculous expectation), IMG wanted Yuna to join and all of them go on ice shows etc. I mean everyone else signed with IMG. ;)
 
I wish Yuna would get rid of her sideburns. It takes away from her looks. Anyway, I bet Mama is behind this breakup. Mama wanted Brian, Adam Rippon and Cristina Gao to join her agency ATS [which mama heads] and they refused, wanting to stick with their agency IMG. I hope Yuna learns to do a better layback spin, hers is not nice. Her leg drags in an ugly position.
 
The only athletes she would lose to would be the top baseball players like Ichiro. She far exceeds any other female athletes in Japan. Anyways, I was just responding to the claim that Mao has it freer in Japan which I don't think it's the case.

Mao probably doesn't have it any easier. I mean once you pass a certain threshhold, media in your face and guards, more guards and more media lol hardly makes a difference.

I wonder why in Korea, Ji Sung Park who plays for Manchester United (soccer/ futbol) isn't as big as Yuna. :think: I mean World Cup > Figure Skating normally isn't it? In most other countries anyways?

I think skating in America tanked because people don't like classical music and artistry anymore. Sex >>> everything else, a shame. Well, and the fact that male sports dominate. Football, basketball. Why don't we get a figure skating move with a Mighty Ducks theme to it? It just won't sell I guess.

LOL. Here is the first prediction that a Kim Yu Na movie opens in South Korean theaters a few years down the road. :laugh:
 
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I wish Yuna would get rid of her sideburns. It takes away from her looks. Anyway, I bet Mama is behind this breakup. Mama wanted Brian, Adam Rippon and Cristina Gao to join her agency ATS [which mama heads] and they refused, wanting to stick with their agency IMG. I hope Yuna learns to do a better layback spin, hers is not nice. Her leg drags in an ugly position.

Lol, I find it funny you sandwiched the main point in between a comment about sideburns and her layback spin. :laugh:
 
There are several reasons I know I can't understand the motivations of anyone in the Kim family. One is that I don't understand family dynamics in traditional families (not just Asian, I hasten to add). In Canada and the States, kids are encouraged to find independence from their families early, and rebellion is understood as a natural and even praiseworthy process. Our way of doing things is unsettling and even alien to a large part of the world, and it would do us well to remember that. Two generations back in my own family (from Eastern Europe), someone found her husband through a matchmaker--in this country, might I add. The girls in that generation lived at home until they married--some into their thirties. So the path YuNa, her sister, and her parents figured out among themselves is not something I can competently make any statements about. Maybe this lady is a voracious stage mother as Pat Lipinski was said to be, or maybe she's just a traditional mother with an unusually strong personality. I have no way of knowing.

The other factor is even more rarefied. What YuNa and her family achieved is not even like the achievements of most other skating families. The kid is the most famous person in any field in Korea--and a Korean is currently the U.N. Secretary General. Who know what kind of bubble she lives in? Who knows what kind of pressure she feels every day of her life? Who knows how many clues she misses about the actions of the people around her? Who knows how many clues they miss about her actions?

And then there's the language and culture barrier. An Asian poster on another forum pointed it out with an effective metaphor: in the West, we put the personal name first and the family name second: Brian Orser. In Asia, the family name comes first and the personal name second: Kim YuNa, Asada Mao. In the West, we put the date first and the year last. In Asia, the opposite. Lots of things are opposite in East and West. It makes many actions and reactions between the two spheres hard to understand.

This is why I can't side against either her or Brian. (And why I can side with both of them without contradiction.) There were certainly mistakes from both camps--golly, how much messier could this breakup have been? But both sides have done each other great good through these past years. As several of you point out, Brian may have helped make YuNa a champion, but YuNa equally made Brian a premier coach. How many decades did Frank Carroll have to wait for a gold medal winner from his students? Didn't he start coaching when the plane crashed in 1961, killing his own mentor Maribel Vinson Owen?

So when the dust settles, I hope both sides can remember how greatly valuable and fruitful their relationship was. And I hope we remember it, also. What good skating they gave us, out of the depths of their hearts.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Olympia. As usual, you make very good points in a most interesting and non-confrontational manner.

I am wondering how this all went so wrong. Like you, I don't think blame needs to be cast on Yuna or Brian.
Your last sentence, "out of the depths of their hearts" feels very true to me.

And yet this was an extremely ugly breakup. The worst I can ever recall.

I have been wondering about Brian and the new LP music. I think it shows how strained the relations were between Brian and ATS.

Did Brian just let it slip out due to emotional stress he was feeling?
I somehow doubt it. I think Brian let it out as a way of letting Ms Park know that he is a Director at the Cricket Club and he wanted her, Ms Choi and Yuna out of the Cricket Club ASAP.

When we saw Min Jung no longer able to train with Brian it was an indicator of how bad the feelings were between Brian and Ms Park.

So with the tension and a deteriorating situation both professionally and personally Brian wanted the Kim camp gone and they were not leaving quickly enough to suit him.

Brian gives an interview and mentions Yuna's new LP music. The Kim camp responds with accusations and threats but then shortly afterwards announces they will be leaving the Cricket Club.
What was next? If they stayed would Brian have talked about Yuna's new SP music and program? Or more unpleasant statements?

The thing is that for every action there is a reaction. I don't think it is necessary to take sides but do think it is difficult to make light of this mess. It was harmful and hurtful to many people and to skating fans. It's ashame that skating seems to need and even thrive on these types of controversies.

Personally I was very surprised when this story first broke. ATS could have let Brian's breaking of the news go with a polite reply. They didn't and escalated it more than any of us would have guessed. Yuna's messages surprised us all with their bluntness.

All of the talk about East vs West is interesting and has some merit. I don't know how much of it applies as this feels to me to be nothing more than a power struggle between a skating mom and her daughter's coach. One wanted total control and the other demanded a degree of respect.

Neither was at their best and the one they both claim to love was made to suffer as a result of their actions.

And how will Yuna feel going forward. If she competes at Worlds will Yuna feel relaxed and be in her comfort zone or will she have yet another burden on her shoulders? Will there be new pressure to show she can win without Brian? Unfortunately next time Yuna competes I think this will be the case.

Part of me thinks it is the last thing she needed after the pressures of the Olympics last season. But one thing is sure: I wish the split had not been so bad and handled so poorly and I wish Yuna and Brian continued success.
 
miki88
The only athletes she would lose to would be the top baseball players like Ichiro. She far exceeds any other female athletes in Japan. Anyways, I was just responding to the claim that Mao has it freer in Japan which I don't think it's the case.
I see. I don't know much about Mao. My conclusion that she was freer was from some TV program where Mao actually was on the streets and everyone just passed by. But I guess people were polite and avoided cameras.
 
There are several reasons I know I can't understand the motivations of anyone in the Kim family. One is that I don't understand family dynamics in traditional families (not just Asian, I hasten to add). In Canada and the States, kids are encouraged to find independence from their families early, and rebellion is understood as a natural and even praiseworthy process. Our way of doing things is unsettling and even alien to a large part of the world, and it would do us well to remember that. Two generations back in my own family (from Eastern Europe), someone found her husband through a matchmaker--in this country, might I add. The girls in that generation lived at home until they married--some into their thirties. So the path YuNa, her sister, and her parents figured out among themselves is not something I can competently make any statements about. Maybe this lady is a voracious stage mother as Pat Lipinski was said to be, or maybe she's just a traditional mother with an unusually strong personality. I have no way of knowing.

The other factor is even more rarefied. What YuNa and her family achieved is not even like the achievements of most other skating families. The kid is the most famous person in any field in Korea--and a Korean is currently the U.N. Secretary General. Who know what kind of bubble she lives in? Who knows what kind of pressure she feels every day of her life? Who knows how many clues she misses about the actions of the people around her? Who knows how many clues they miss about her actions?

And then there's the language and culture barrier. An Asian poster on another forum pointed it out with an effective metaphor: in the West, we put the personal name first and the family name second: Brian Orser. In Asia, the family name comes first and the personal name second: Kim YuNa, Asada Mao. In the West, we put the date first and the year last. In Asia, the opposite. Lots of things are opposite in East and West. It makes many actions and reactions between the two spheres hard to understand.

This is why I can't side against either her or Brian. (And why I can side with both of them without contradiction.) There were certainly mistakes from both camps--golly, how much messier could this breakup have been? But both sides have done each other great good through these past years. As several of you point out, Brian may have helped make YuNa a champion, but YuNa equally made Brian a premier coach. How many decades did Frank Carroll have to wait for a gold medal winner from his students? Didn't he start coaching when the plane crashed in 1961, killing his own mentor Maribel Vinson Owen?

So when the dust settles, I hope both sides can remember how greatly valuable and fruitful their relationship was. And I hope we remember it, also. What good skating they gave us, out of the depths of their hearts.


Many posts I've read mentioned the communication problem between the two sides regarding this ugly break-up and....Yuna's mother...
But I think the cutural difference was the main cause which made many things much worse.

I'm Korean, just a few years younger than Yuna's mother.

Revealing all the reasons / details of the break-up on media is supposed to be inappropriate in our culture.
Yuna shouldn't talk directly about the contract with Brian who's her teacher AND who's much older than herself. If she had done so, she must have been much more criticized because that sort of act's supposed to be very rude in Korea.
I think what she wrote in twitter was not adequate, either, but I could understand her frustration ( she couldn't speak out anywhere else.)

Many also said Yuna's mother has been involved in the life of her daughter too much. As far as I know, she's far from being a 'skate mom' we easily imagine. She had to sacrifice too much to make her daughter's dream come true. That's why she said she majored in Yuna.

Her father also mentioned that Yuna was very determined to be a skater, controlling herself exceptionally well ( training, diet..etc.) even when she was a kid. He added that he did not expect she could be a top-level skater(the interview was about 3 or 4 years ago, I think)

The environment for skating here in Korea is too different from that of other countries. There was no systematic coaching system, no financial aid from the skating federation, no sponsors for figure skaters, no international level skater,esp. no rink for the figure skaters.
Yuna also used the cold ice rink of an amusement park midnight for training, and that's why she got injured so much when she was junior, along with the boots problem. I've seen a documentary a few years ago in which Yuna's mom herself showed how to repair Yuna's skating boots at home. She was the driver, the training coach, the physical therapist, the agent...and more..(Personally, I don't want to live like her, and I can't live like her.). No one cared about the young skater, and her mother had to do it all.

When I heard the news that she started a management company this year, at first, I thought that might not be a good idea. However, I heard that she did so not only for Yuna but also for young korean skaters who confront the same difficulties as Yuna has been through, I got to support their decision, even after this mess.

I think what bothers Yuna most now is not the break-up, not finding a new coach and an ice rink for training, but putting up with all the criticism against her mother in silence.

Too long.. sorry about my English.
 
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Thank you, Ilunga. Your post is very helpful and enlightening. By the way, your English is very clear. I wish I spoke a second language as well as you speak English!
 
And I'm 100% sure... Yuna does not even understand what you're talking about.

I would like to elaborate on my thoughts if you don't mind. It is extremely unlikely for a non-native speaker (no matter how poor his English ability is) to say “I am a Korean now” (emphasis on current state) when he actually means “I am a Korean” (describing a general fact). The reason is that adding “now” (a free lexical item not embedded in the grammatical structure such as agreement, singular/plural, tense, etc.) entails conscious focus on the timing or, in other word, involves a different thought process from stating just a general fact.
Statement 1: I always know what’s going on around me (describing a general fact).
Statement 2: I know what’s going on now (emphasizing the current event/state).
As a non-native speaker of an oriental background, I find it very hard to believe that one would add an extra word “now” without knowing its basic meaning, i.e., emphasizing the current time. As a result, I am unable to reject Janetfan’s hypothesis that Yuna's statement could imply “I did not understand before but I know exactly what's going on now" and therefore “Yuna seems to admit as Brian said that before when he talked to her she did not understand what was happening”.
 
Mathman
From the recent fireworks here I thought maybe you named yourself after "Daniel in the Lion's Den" in the Bible.
I don't have that high opinion of myself. But maybe my name goes well with me.

skatinginbc
As a non-native speaker of an oriental background, I find it very hard to believe that one would add an extra word “now” without knowing its basic meaning, i.e., emphasizing the current time. As a result, I am unable to reject Janetfan’s hypothesis that Yuna's statement could imply “I did not understand before but I know exactly what's going on now" and therefore “Yuna seems to admit as Brian said that before when he talked to her she did not understand what was happening”.
That's possible. Or, maybe, she referred to something else. It's unlikely that this word has nothing to do there, but what it means exactly is a big mystery.
 
I am not sure if that is an accurate staement. Yuna left IMG on bad terms and IB was hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread when Yuna joined them. They were praised for making so much money for Yuna.
Then, just like with Brian we heard from the Kim camp that IB is bad. They don't work for Yuna. Or they are bad and they overwork Yuna.

When Ms Park decided to start her own agency IB was trashed by the kim camp and by Yuna fans.
Just like Brian - once the world's greatest coach is no longer anything special.

There is a recurring theme here. Whenever Ms Park makes a change it is because the other party is bad. Why are the changes in management full of such bad feelings, including lawsuits and the recent threat to sue Brian?


A coincidence - I don't think so.

I don't know where you get your stories. There are reasons behind everything.

When Yuna signed a contract with IB Sports they promised to lend her certain amount of
money in advance and at the time Yuna's mom had to sell the house and borrow money here and there to support Yuna. (Yes, Yuna didn't have any sponsors even after 2007 Worlds, thanks to IMG) When Yuna became famous, many companies wanted to be a sponsor and IB didn't have to work hard at all getting her the sponsorships (This is what IB said btw). However they failed to be a good agent (official website, Youtube management, PR, protecting Yuna from the media, to name a few) and Yuna simply didn't renew the contract after it expired. IB Sports went nuts after that of course because their stock prices dropped and they lost their one and only star client but if your company depends on one person than you're screwed either way.
IB Sports was NEVER "hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread" and many felt they were lucky to have Yuna.

Now, her coach before Brian. She was a temporary coach that the Korean federation assigned to Yuna because her coach (who sent her to David Wilson and still has a good relationship with Yuna) couldn't coach her anymore. Of course, she didn't have any career in figure skating and was unable to properly coach Yuna. However, she enjoyed taking credit for Yuna. She even said she is the one who made Yuna artistic and expressive (David Wilson will be so mad lol). She wanted to remain as Yuna's coach along with Brian and made a big fuss about the whole thing but later she admitted that she knew she was a temp and her term with Yuna was coming to an end. So basically it was about a woman who couldn't let go of all the fame and credit she didn't deserve.

Now Brian. She never threatened to sue anyone so get your facts right.
Maybe Brian giving Yuna her "space" was a big mistake because it is clear that
Yuna and her team felt they were ignored and when they said David Wilson was the only one they could talk to I believe that.
She was also much more closer to David than Brian anyways, even her book mainly talks about David.
Also I'm sure there were some problems here and there for the past 4 years just like any other normal relationships people have.
From many many interviews that Mr. Orser had, it is clear that he didn't want to let her go and also wanted more money (the whole lowest paying coach and 5~30% commision stuff). He even lied Mao Asada and who knows what else he is lying about. When Yuna told him to stop lying I think there is a good reason. It's great that he stopped talking tho.
Whether Brian was a good technical coach or not is still a question. He even made her do the same spin twice at 2009 WC. I'll reserve my judgement until I see other students under him do well but i doubt any of them will be as good as Yuna. However, he was a good mentor and definitely helped Yuna a lot over the years.

So the "recurring theme" is that people around her don't want to let her go (forever) for the their own benefit and I don't blame Yuna and her mom if they felt they were being taken advantage of.
 
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So the "recurring theme" is that people around her don't want to let her go (forever) for the their own benefit and I don't blame Yuna and her mom if they felt they were being taken advantage of.

Another recurring theme is that everyone who works with or for Yuna is taking advantage of her.
Maybe this famous judgement of Ms Park is not all it is cracked up to be since David Wilson seems to be the only one she has hired in the last four years who has not been fired, released, downsized or surplussed.

I forgot the dependable Ms Choi who threatened Brian with a new level of management. :)
I guess her translating and writing skills make her too valuable to terminate. :eek:

ETA: Some good insight and the typically hilarious comments from my "hero" Aunt Joyce:

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/

"Portrayed as an angel with archangels by her side, it is unfathomable that Queen Yu-Na does not indeed s _ _ t rainbows and ice cream."

"Yu-Na's supporters have been quite upset over the split and overwhelmingly dramatic everywhere they're able to leave a comment. They want the accusations to stop!"

"It has been so deliciously dramatic that it is amazing Russians weren't somehow involved." :laugh:
 
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Johnnnn
I don't know where you get your stories. There are reasons behind everything.
He has a very special imagination, only about negative things though... Of course, he will never make a counterargument to anything or support his "facts" with proofs. It's all the same sad trash each time. But I think no one takes him seriously.
 
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