Ladies LP, 11/19/11

[seniorita]

^OT, but I read the interview of Yuna today and although she is much much older than a 10 year old, I found depressing that what she wanted was disregarded by the others who decided about her.
I dont agree about a ten year old competing in seniors anyway because it cant be a complete athlete in any sport I think. But just I find the conversation irrelevant to TEB and unfair to Tukt -who is almost 15 now- because she won. Adelina, Liza, and before them Mao and the rest started competing at juniors and are going by the rules of ISU, and passed from juniors to seniors when they were allowed.

 

[Spun Silver]

I was there in Paris.

Liza is so exciting to watch. On top of great jumps, everything about her screams of joy and excitement of being able to perform and show what she can. Mesmerising. Having said that, especially in free skate, especially after watching skaters like Caro, it made me worried about how very small portion of the ice she utilises. I don't know whether it was intended so choreographically (some skaters have preferred locations for certain jumps) or due to her relative lack of power and speed in skating. Anyway, she's so young and it was actually encouraging to see a room to grow.

Caro's power and speed across the ice was simply breath-taking. Not matched by anyone in the competition, I thought. Watching her skate is like watching men skate! Her speed going into the doubled flip was so much that I held my breath as I somehow knew she wouldn't make it.

Alissa was gorgeous. The way she subtly but surely picks up nuance of the music through her movement is wonderful. I just wished she had done a little more skating-wise in-between elements. But that might come once she settles more with her jumps.

Overall, it was great to have three skaters with rather different qualities up on the podium. For me, that is a triumph of IJS. Varied ways of rewarding skaters with different strengths.

I read Kanako has a very serious boot problem this season, like Jeremy last season, in Japanese source. I thought she skated a lot better than at COC, and her smile at K&C said it all. There is something enchanting about the way she performs - like I could see herself, her emotions, personality, time and efforts she has put in, etc, through her performance. (Or is that because I am Japanese and naturally sympathetic to Japanese skaters? I cannot tell myself.)

Thank you for all the TEB reports!

No, you're not biased. I find Kanako absolutely delightful too and I love her programs this year. I am hoping to high heavens that she will continue to develop successfully. Is the boot her only big issue? I hope so, as it's fixable. She looked so distressed after her SP. She has that mule-kick on her lutz (or is it her flip?) but it doesn't seem to affect her ability to land it. I'd like to hear more discussion of her skating by people who know more than I do.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

It's not even about the skating. It's about putting someone who isn't legally capable of making major decisions in those type of situations. It's about preventing child abuse, imo - we hear horror stories about those extreme parents and frankly, I like that the ISU says no. Some things transcend the sport, and I would argue the rights of a child to be a child should be one of them.

I suppose you could say the same about child prodigies of any genre-in music or the arts. Sports and the law are two separate animals imo. Child abuse certainly happens in ALL spheres of life but it's still doesn't mean that ALL coaches of prodigies are likely to abuse them. Nor their paretns. I have often read of athletes who say they had a happy childhood-being allowed to do what they wanted to do which was to enjoy their sport. I don't agree with what you seem to imply-that a child isn't being allowed to be a child if their allowed to train in as an elite. Abuse can occur at ANY level-even recreationally.

 

[mot]

Spun Silver, I am glad to know that her charm reaches beyond cultural boundaries!

According to this article (in Japanese), Kanako skated with what I assume her old boots (as her coach is quoted to be saying it had become so soft that it did not hold its original shape any longer, and she used many rounds of tape to keep it in shape). Another article says her boot problem has persisted since September and that was also a chief reason behind her poor performance in China. She was quoted to have thought about withdrawing from the both competitions due to lack of preparation, and reported to be crying everyday.

The article however concludes on a brighter note; she was satisfied with herself for not giving up and having given what she could. She felt encouraged, and above all, she found the fitting boots in a shop in Paris.

She was delightful to watch in the exhibition. She was quietly expressive, smooth on ice and above all, smiling throughout the programme. The crowd cheered when she finished her performance much louder than when she first came on the ice. (I guess it was her performance, not the crowd's expectation from a known popular skater, that brought the round of applause.)

I also think she is struggling with her new programmes this season. She's dropped the short choreographed by Tat reasoning it was too difficult. The last season, her coach Machiko Yamada said it was her team's strategy to play on her strength - her youthful charm, energy and love of dancing. This season, however, her team decided to present more grown-up Kanako. (But she's just turned 17 and her off-ice personality seems still very much a typical girl in a school uniform.)

According to this article, she (or her team) is also considering changing programme(s) though.

 

[Dragonlady]

I suppose you could say the same about child prodigies of any genre-in music or the arts. Sports and the law are two separate animals imo. Child abuse certainly happens in ALL spheres of life but it's still doesn't mean that ALL coaches of prodigies are likely to abuse them. Nor their paretns. I have often read of athletes who say they had a happy childhood-being allowed to do what they wanted to do which was to enjoy their sport. I don't agree with what you seem to imply-that a child isn't being allowed to be a child if their allowed to train in as an elite. Abuse can occur at ANY level-even recreationally.

The rule is not just to protect the prodigies, but all of the children whose parents THINK they're prodigies, and there are a lot of those parents. And if you think it doesn't happen just remember AP McDonough, who unfortunately was a child prodigy and who had a mother who was, shall we say, a little over-eager. It's not lost on me that the moment she was legally old enough to leave home, AP quit competitive skating and moved across the country away from her mother. I've seen parents push kids who clearly didn't want to be on the ice, one of whom told me she was going to make her daughter a star, if not in skating then in something else, especially after first Michelle and then Tara became world champions. I asked one mother why she had her 8 year old taking her pre-novice test (which she passed), and she said she was doing everything possible to get her (8 year old) ready for the Olympics. I pointed out to her that her daughter wouldn't turn 15 until October before the games and therefore would not be age-eligible until four years later.

 

[Mathman]

The rule is not just to protect the prodigies, but all of the children whose parents THINK they're prodigies, and there are a lot of those parents. And if you think it doesn't happen just remember AP McDonough, who unfortunately was a child prodigy and who had a mother who was, shall we say, a little over-eager. It's not lost on me that the moment she was legally old enough to leave home, AP quit competitive skating and moved across the country away from her mother.

Do you think that Ann Patrice's life would have been different if the ISU had put the age qualification for senior championships up or down a year or two?

 

[dwiggin3]

The rule is not just to protect the prodigies, but all of the children whose parents THINK they're prodigies, and there are a lot of those parents. And if you think it doesn't happen just remember AP McDonough, who unfortunately was a child prodigy and who had a mother who was, shall we say, a little over-eager. It's not lost on me that the moment she was legally old enough to leave home, AP quit competitive skating and moved across the country away from her mother. I've seen parents push kids who clearly didn't want to be on the ice, one of whom told me she was going to make her daughter a star, if not in skating then in something else, especially after first Michelle and then Tara became world champions. I asked one mother why she had her 8 year old taking her pre-novice test (which she passed), and she said she was doing everything possible to get her (8 year old) ready for the Olympics. I pointed out to her that her daughter wouldn't turn 15 until October before the games and therefore would not be age-eligible until four years later.

I would LOVE to know what the mother said when you told her that her child would not be age-eligible.....

 

[coolboogie22]

I like Silete and Marrocco I wish that the French federation help them to improve their skating because they are both very talent skaters

 

[Jammers]

Mao, Yuna, Michelle, Sasha ..also.
And the first two you mentioned are OC , hype and all.

Jammers with all your being 14 Liza, I m sure you will have NO problem with 15 year old Adelina crashing the field and winning COR next week. (I wish I wish!!!)

No i would not have a problem with Adelina winning the COR next week. She's much more mature in her skating and looks like a young lady not a little girl.

 

[Jammers]

I have to admit that I thought Mirai was pretty much finish growing at that point. Well I thought she might grow a lil more but not as much as she has. She paints a different picture on the ice for me now. It's not the same.

Part of Mirai's problems are is that she isn't in good enough shape and doesn't train hard enough. A few to many trips to the refrigerator seems to a part of her problem.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I suppose you could say the same about child prodigies of any genre-in music or the arts. Sports and the law are two separate animals imo. Child abuse certainly happens in ALL spheres of life but it's still doesn't mean that ALL coaches of prodigies are likely to abuse them. Nor their paretns. I have often read of athletes who say they had a happy childhood-being allowed to do what they wanted to do which was to enjoy their sport. I don't agree with what you seem to imply-that a child isn't being allowed to be a child if their allowed to train in as an elite. Abuse can occur at ANY level-even recreationally.

You're right, and it's up to individual organizations to state that they won't tolerate it.

a) I do believe a child can be a happy child and still train at an elite level.

b) I believe that a child can be unhappy and be forced to train at an elite level.

c) Given that figure skating is a sport that favours a certain biology (ie: small, breastless girls) and that we know of skaters who've struggled with anorexia and related issues, that it behooves an organization hoping to perpetuate the sport to do what it can to limit the damage to these youth. If Skater A were to tell you tomorrow that she hates skating, but does it because her parents want her to and because they think she'll be brilliant, would you enjoy her skating on the same level? A fluff piece during the Beijing Games talked about a young girl who was taken from her home to train for gymnastics, despite her pleas to live with her parents. Obviously, her voice went unheard. She might be an excellent gymnast, but I can't enjoy watching her with that knowledge

d) So with the potential for abuse and the fact that we're talking about people who don't legally have a voice, I think it's fair and right to set age limits. No, it won't prevent the situations from happening, but it does state that the ISU doesn't condone that sort of treatment, and that's not without meaning.

 

[Spun Silver]

I'm getting very sick of hearing about Mirai's weight and fitness level. She's growing up, as she should, and looks stunning, IMO. So far her season is going in the right direction with a silver at COC, even if she didn't make the GPF. I'm very encouraged and I both hope and think she'll win Nationals this year.

 

[seniorita]

No i would not have a problem with Adelina winning the COR next week. She's much more mature in her skating and looks like a young lady not a little girl.

Really? Adelina is half year older, and indeed skates with maturity for her age and is taller and more filled than Liza BUT thanx god ISU DOES NOT base the eligibility rules depending on the girls appearance or fans taste. Either a 15 year old could enter senior competition or not, the argument is ridiculous..but oh well..

 

[Layfan]

I'm getting very sick of hearing about Mirai's weight and fitness level. She's growing up, as she should, and looks stunning, IMO. So far her season is going in the right direction with a silver at COC, even if she didn't make the GPF. I'm very encouraged and I both hope and think she'll win Nationals this year.

Thank you.

 

[mskater93]

Part of Mirai's problems are is that she isn't in good enough shape and doesn't train hard enough. A few to many trips to the refrigerator seems to a part of her problem.

How do you know this? Are you there at practice with her and at home while she's making these supposed trips to the refrigerator? ::shakes head::

 

[Dragonlady]

I would LOVE to know what the mother said when you told her that her child would not be age-eligible.....

Skate Canada would make an exception for HER child and she was serious.

Most of the children of "over-eager" parents find ways to self-sabotage. In spite of winning everything in sight in our Section, landing her first triples before her 9th birthday, and passing the pre-novice test at age 8, her daughter never made it to Canadians. Her best finish at Sectionals - 5th. The top 4 move on to the Challenge. Once she hit her teenage years, the daughter quite skating completely.

 

[mskater93]

Skate Canada would make an exception for HER child and she was serious.

Most of the children of "over-eager" parents find ways to self-sabotage. In spite of winning everything in sight in our Section, landing her first triples before her 9th birthday, and passing the pre-novice test at age 8, her daughter never made it to Canadians. Her best finish at Sectionals - 5th. The top 4 move on to the Challenge. Once she hit her teenage years, the daughter quite skating completely.

I've heard this story repeatedly around the US. Not surprising....

 

[Dragonlady]

I've heard this story repeatedly around the US. Not surprising....

AP used to try to self-sabotage, cried and threw tantrums in public practice sessions. People would comment that she was an "ice-brat". I saw a desperately unhappy child who was screaming for someone to rescue her. Other people would say that she must want to skate or she wouldn't be as successful as she was, but I never once saw her look happy on the ice.

 

[seniorita]

This stories sound like science fiction to me, I thought these parents would live in Mars or a galaxy far far away..why they dont skate themselves for a change? Anyway...

 

[Spun Silver]

This stories sound like science fiction to me, I thought these parents would live in Mars or a galaxy far far away..why they dont skate themselves for a change? Anyway...

Yu Na said something like that about her mother in the interview that was just posted here.