Ladies LP - actual competition

[PolymerBob]

When it comes right down to it, we are the wolves. So I think I will just accept whatever happens. When Caroline, Mirai and Ashley go to Junior Worlds, I will cheer for them. When Alissa and Rachael go to senior Worlds, I will cheer for them. If the teams get shuffled, nothing changes, I will still cheer.

That's about all we can do.

 

[bekalc]

When it comes right down to it, we are the wolves. So I think I will just accept whatever happens. When Caroline, Mirai and Ashley go to Junior Worlds, I will cheer for them. When Alissa and Rachael go to senior Worlds, I will cheer for them. If the teams get shuffled, nothing changes, I will still cheer.

That's about all we can do.

Oh, I don't think the team should get shuffled. That wouldn't be right to change things now. The USFSA made their choice, and now have to accept the consquences of their choice. So glad that Zhang and Flatt got their revenge here.

 

[demarinis5]

When it comes right down to it, we are the wolves. So I think I will just accept whatever happens. When Caroline, Mirai and Ashley go to Junior Worlds, I will cheer for them. When Alissa and Rachael go to senior Worlds, I will cheer for them. If the teams get shuffled, nothing changes, I will still cheer.

That's about all we can do.

Good advise. Once you accept (whether you agree or not) it is much easier
to relax and cheer for your favorites (at least until Worlds anyway lol)
It is not life or death it is sport . Now what I can't accept is my 401K plummeting..

 

[ChrisH]

Wrong. People do have a choice. They can choose to stand behind our 2-week-old National champion, or choose to throw her to the wolves. People are already making their choice in this thread.

Alissa skated well here. A lot of US fans are stuck on how Alissa skated last season. I couldn't even convince Alissa fans that she deserved two GPs this season until she won at Nebelhorn. Other fans even thought that Marisa Secundy was more deserving of USFS support than Alissa.

Besides being a little bit more consistent with her jumping, she needs to sell her programs better. That way she can take full advantage of the home field advantage at Worlds.

 

[feraina]

I just played Caroline's 4CC LP and National's LP side by side, and saw something really interesting. She was only slightly faster up until the step sequence, but what was really noticeable was that she took her time at 4CC, so that she was skating bigger lobes and stronger edges throughout. The bigger lobes also gave her more speed going into and out of jumps. In fact, she was really behind the music relative to National's by the time she started the step sequence, such that she *had* to speed up or she wouldn't finish on time. Maybe being more relaxed helped, or maybe it was a conscious decision on she and her team's part to skate the bigger lobes and deeper edges. In any case, it really helped in a lot of ways, and she netted the highest score she's ever gotten on a footwork sequence (deservingly).

I think the problem with Ave Maria is that it was choreographed over 1.5 years ago, when she was physically a lot smaller (5-6 inches shorter and probably 10 pounds lighter!) and skating slower. Now that she's bigger and skates faster, she has to skate all the figures bigger to fill up all the time in the music, from one element to the next. Otherwise, she looks like she's doddling on the ice doing nothing much from one element to the next.

What is interesting with Ave Maria is that the musical phrases really blend into each other and spread out, such it allows Caroline such freedom to changing the timing and content of the choreography. Sleeping Beauty was very much the opposite, where it demanded moves to be exactly where they are choreographed. Caroline struggled a bit with that earlier in the season, she sometimes found herself a little behind music, and then had to rush through a section like a spin resulting in a lower level. That must be a major reason why she went back to Ave Maria. But I think for the long term, she needs something like Sleeping Beauty to become a better, stronger skater. And if she had had three more months skating to it, I think by now it would've looked pretty good too.

 

[Particle Man]

She's not my National Champion. As far as I'm concerned she's National Champion on paper only.

This is disgusting. It crosses the line.

I'll go with Toni's suggestion on this one. Bye Bekalc.

I just played Caroline's 4CC LP and National's LP side by side, and saw something really interesting...she took her time at 4CC, so that she was skating bigger lobes and stronger edges throughout. The bigger lobes also gave her more speed going into and out of jumps. In fact, she was really behind the music relative to National's by the time she started the step sequence, such that she *had* to speed up or she wouldn't finish on time. Maybe being more relaxed helped, or maybe it was a conscious decision on she and her team's part to skate the bigger lobes and deeper edges. In any case, it really helped in a lot of ways, and she netted the highest score she's ever gotten on a footwork sequence (deservingly).

Wow, actual factual analysis. Good job. Unfortunately, some Caroline fans won't listen. They are convinced she did just as well at Nationals and that's the end of it. I'll go a step further -- they don't even care about Worlds, this is all just an excuse for the latest "Caroline WUZROBBED"! Caroline's 4CC LP is like red meat to them, they can't stop themselves.

If only I'd recognized that dynamic earlier it would have saved time. Silly me for trying to fight raw emotion with objective factual analysis.

 

[feraina]

They are convinced she did just as well at Nationals and that's the end of it.

Well, she did worst in the LP at National's, but better in the SP. Her 3-3 was ratified (but the crazy tech panel gave her a ! on the 3F-3T), that alone should give her a 4 point lift in TES, not to mention typically in international judging, completing a ratified 3-3 also lifts one's PCS (instead Caroline's PCS was 1 point lower than Rachael's, who only did 3-2, and that one point was essentially the lead Rachael head into the LP; granted Caroline also flipped out of the 2A, but getting ratified 3-3 normally more than offsets a 2A with flip-out). Even if Caroline was better at 4CC than National's, she wasn't *that* much better. Alissa was better at 4CC, too, or at least certainly not worse. And Rachael was about the same as National's, except for the one popped loop.

Anyway, what's past is past. The World's team is set, and I don't see any chance of shuffling that unless someone gets injured and withdraws. And I wouldn't want to wish injury on any athlete, they work so hard for the chance to go to the WC at the end of the year, and it would just totally suck to be taken out by injury. I will cheer on the US team in LA when the time comes.

As for Caroline, of course she worked hard for the chance to go to WC too, but it's not bad if she can go and shine at JW and become the first repeat champion (not to mention the chance to show USFSA she's competitive against the other two top US ladies, Mirai & Ashley, too).

 

[Mathman]

...COI isn't around anymore...

Michele Kwan has been spotted in St. Louis and Florida hobnobbing with rich banker types. I think she is lining up financial backing to start up a new tour.

Alissa would be a natural. Then pick up Michelle's pal, Caroline, after the Olympics and Bob's your uncle, as they say on the other side of the pond.

By the way, Alissa has more major national and international senior titles than Zhang, Wagner and Nagasu put together (three to one). If you count the U.S. Collegiate Championships she has more than Meissner (five to four), more than both Hughes sisters combined (five to three), more than Sasha in all her years of skating except 2003 (five to four -- Sasha also won four times in 2003).

So that's why Alissa should go to the Universiade. Win that, and let Worlds fall as it may.

 

[ks777]

Michele Kwan has been spotted in St. Louis and Florida hobnobbing with rich banker types. I think she is lining up financial backing to start up a new tour.

Alissa would be a natural. Then pick up Michelle's pal, Caroline, after the Olympics and Bob's your uncle, as they say on the other side of the pond.

By the way, Alissa has more major national and international senior titles than Zhang, Wagner and Nagasu put together (three to one). If you count the U.S. Collegiate Championships she has more than Meissner (five to four), more than both Hughes sisters combined (five to three), more than Sasha in all her years of skating except 2003 (five to four -- Sasha also won four times in 2003).

So that's why Alissa should go to the Universiade. Win that, and let Worlds fall as it may.

I hope Michelle will invite Shizuka to the new tour!

 

[Tonichelle]

didn't Shizuka get a bunch of offers after the olys and she turned the tours down because she wanted to stay closer to home?

 

[Mathman]

Just for fun I looked up who beat whom on the international circuit this season

Skate America:

Flatt lost to Kim, Nakano and Ando;
beat Nagasu and Poykio

Skate Canada:

Czisny lost to Rochette and Suguri;
beat Kostner and Zhang

Zhang lost to Rochette, Suguri, Czisny and Kostner;
beat Bebe Liang and Jenna McCorkerell

Cup of China

Wagner lost to Kim, Ando and Lepisto;
beat Poykio and Meyer

France

Zhang lost to Rochette and Asada;
beat Candice Didier and Bebe Liang

Russia

Flatt lost to Kostner;
beat Suguri and Czisny

Czisny lost to Kostner, Flatt and Suguri;
beat Leonova and Glebova

NHK

Wagner lost to Asada, Suzuki and Nakano;
beat Lepisto, Hawker and Phaneuf.

U.S. Nationals SP: Czisny, Flatt, Zhang, ... Wagner (12th)

U.S. Nationals LP: Wagner, Flatt, Czisny, Zhang (judging questioned)

Four Continents

Zhang lost to Kim, Rochette and Asada;
beat Phaneuf and Suguri

Flatt lost to all of the above, beat Suzuki and Czisny.

Czisny lost to everyone mentioned so far, beat Amelie LaCost, Yan Liu and Anastasia Gimazetdinova.

Conclusion...?

Besides being a little bit more consistent with her jumping, she needs to sell her programs better. That way she (Alissa) can take full advantage of the home field advantage at Worlds.

I think that was a problem at Four Continents. She was stalking the jumps so carefully, especially after falling in the SP, that she couldn't really let go on the things that she does best.

 

[shine]

I notice that Kim Yu Na got bigger applause than Rochette did in Vancouver (Canada!).

Probably because Vancouver has one of the most concentrated Korean populations outside of Korea. It seriously was like skating on home ice for Yuna. It was funny how the arena became so much emptier during the Men's FS compared to the Ladies FS when most of the Korean fans were gone.

 

[feraina]

It was funny how the arena became so much emptier during the Men's FS compared to the Ladies FS when most of the Korean fans were gone.

That's a real shame, especially as Canadian men did so well!

 

[R.D.]

Probably because Vancouver has one of the most concentrated Korean populations outside of Korea.

Could this have implications for the Olympic crowd? :think:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

So there will be 2 Home crowds. Why not?

 

[fumie_fumie]

Could this have implications for the Olympic crowd? :think:

Definitely. the pressure will be solely on Yu-na Kim, not on Joannie Rochette. This takes the pressure off from Canadian ladies, which is a good news for them.

 

[PolymerBob]

Now that the competition is over, and now that we are done arguing over the World team, we can get back to the one issue that is really important ........

.................. Caroline's rubber chicken.

http://iminyourfanclub.livejournal.com/25084.html

 

[victoria90]

Now that the competition is over, and now that we are done arguing over the World team, we can get back to the one issue that is really important ........

.................. Caroline's rubber chicken.

http://iminyourfanclub.livejournal.com/25084.html

that was so WTF?? and she kept it! that rubber chicken it's kinda scary though lol

 

[tarotx]

Really comparing championship wins is a bit unrepresentative.

In comparison to Alissa Sasha also has 4 more national medals (she medaled at each of the nationals she attended), 3 world medals (and 2 4th place) and an Olympic medal ( and a 4th place as well). Sasha has an isu championship win with her gpf win for the 2002-2003 season and a 2nd place the next season (2003-2004) while I think Alissa finished 6th in her best finish.

Alissa is on her second Olympic cycle while Flatt, Zhang, Wagner and Nagasu are on their first. These girls are more comparable to Alissa in 2005 and Sasha in 2000 or 2002.


Caroline's chicken I think was a nod to Michelle.

 

[Andalusia]

Caroline's chicken I think was a nod to Michelle.

Does Michelle have an association with chickens that I'm not aware of? In any case, a rubber chicken certainly is a weird gift to be throwing, lol. Did KFC help to sponsor the 4CC or something?

It's kind of late to be posting thoughts on the actual performances, but I only just finished viewing the LPs of the top ladies, and I agree that Mao deservedly had the top-ranked LP. Sure, she did miss the first 3A, but the rest of the jumps she did land were lovely, and her footwork sequence is really something to behold. Kim was just kind of blah, and Joannie deserved to be second too, I thought. Her jumps were so springy, although I did think the excessive arm movements during the resting period were a bit much.

And Cynthia...wow, talk about mature and expressive. She was just fierce.