Unfortunately, the whole practice of playing favorites doesn't limit itself to just to the newbies. I' ve been lurking on these boards and have heard people complain about how the judges tend to bring Joannie Rochette's PCS scores down to a level that is far below that of what she accomplishes in her programs.
Ladies short program
- Thread starter slutskayafan21
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Unfortunately, the whole practice of playing favorites doesn't limit itself to just to the newbies. I' ve been lurking on these boards and have heard people complain about how the judges tend to bring Joannie Rochette's PCS scores down to a level that is far below that of what she accomplishes in her programs.
WTF was with Kimmie's dress? lol. But anyway I don't know how Caroline is lower than Miki.. Miki was awful tonight! And I was wondering why the scores weren't higher and if it was because the 3-3s were downgraded. so now I know.
I really liked Mai. And most people find that surprising but I think she is the better skater out of her and Mao. Coincidently she's in the room nextdoor.. haha. But anyway.. I'm happy that Kimmie and Caroline and Emily all did fairly well. Congrats to Kimmie for landing that 3lutz as she was having issues with it the entire warm up.
I really liked Mai. And most people find that surprising but I think she is the better skater out of her and Mao. Coincidently she's in the room nextdoor.. haha. But anyway.. I'm happy that Kimmie and Caroline and Emily all did fairly well. Congrats to Kimmie for landing that 3lutz as she was having issues with it the entire warm up.
I think so! I prefer caroline to miki in this competition!
Maybe Zhang's1st 3ls in combination jumps was downgraded.
Well, no offense, but I did say that I like Caroline's spins and spirals and that I think the girl is mentally tough... I will also say that her short program was quite enjoyable...Much improved from the won at International Countermatch.
But as for the hype, I do at times get annoyed with the hype. For example, sometimes I like to become fans of the less hyped up skater because I feel sorry for the person...
With Caroline, I think that Caroline has been a lot more hyped than Mao was hyped as a Junior. She was especially more hyped than Yu-na Kim was.
And here's my issue, of course this isn't Caroline's fault. But I got the hype back then about Mao, and Yu-na. Why because both Mao and Yu-na were landing more difficult jumps than the people in the Seniors competition were landing. So it was literally like if those girls could actually compete at worlds, who knows what would happen.
However, in the case of Zhang, while she dominated as a Junior. I think it was partially because she didn't get a challenger until late in the season...And a part of me wonders if her challenge was hurt by her lack of a reputation at Junior Worlds too. This once again isn't Zhang's fault and she did earn some benefit of the doubt.
I guess with Zhang, I just don't get it. Yes, she has some nice aspects of her skating...And she's a tough cookie, but there's some aspects that need some real work. They need enough work, that I don't understand why she's hyped as much. It seems like the USFSA has already anointed Zhang, and I think it's too soon to tell. But of course none of this is Zhang's fault, and if you notice I've never criticized Zhang personally.
But when fans are saying that Zhang is better than a young Michelle Kwan... Yes, Zhang is definetly more stretchy/ and more balletic like. But Michelle Kwan had incredibly basic skating/technique at Zhang's age.
It's because Caroline's skating transcends the technical aspect and touches people's heart. Did you hear the audience's screaming during her performance and that enthusiastic standing O she got?
This explanation would only make sense to people who bring their heart to their appreciation of figure skating, of course...
I was trying to shy away from this silly discussion. But you're getting pretty annoying. Nobody is forcing you to 'get' it. You can love whoever you want, but there're many people who also believe Caroline Zhang is special... So what?
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
here ya go
I like miki's spiral position!
Mai Asada SP
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=pTeG4uwsB34
Kimmie SP
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=OCUIcbnKRM8
Ando SP
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Q7Rvv22vs
Caroline SP
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax5iCbT_DVE
Hughes SP
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJQVuU2Tg4M
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I can sort of understand where bekalc is coming from. Zhang is pretty lyrical, but lyrical is hard to follow, when you don't pack a dose of drama. But we all should give Caroline time.
And most of all, let's not compare her with Mao. Only time will tell how these two stack up against each other. I am just glad that the US has got a promising skater who seems to have the potential to do as well if not better at Worlds than Kimmie. And maybe also skate some breathtakingly lyrical programs.
And yes, there's always backlash against the "hype" directed towards skaters. But I myself, as well as others, also see that Rachel Flatt, Mirai Nagaisu seem to be quite promising. So while Caroline may excite a lot of people, I think many of us are aware that there are other ladies skating coming up through the ranks in the US.
A few very short comments:
Meissner - I really enjoyed her skating and interpretation of the music
Hughes - I did not like her costume, but her skating has spunk, like always
Zhang - WOW, for a 14 years old she is really amazing and her skating looks rather mature considering her age. Beautiful costume!!!
Ando - The costume is a bit too much... Without that neon colour and the necklage it would have been beautiful, in my opinion.
Meissner - I really enjoyed her skating and interpretation of the music
Hughes - I did not like her costume, but her skating has spunk, like always
Zhang - WOW, for a 14 years old she is really amazing and her skating looks rather mature considering her age. Beautiful costume!!!
Ando - The costume is a bit too much... Without that neon colour and the necklage it would have been beautiful, in my opinion.
And I can sort of understand where you're coming from.
bekalc, you don't get the hype, that's fine. There's no need to rain on the parades of those who do, especially since you do it so frequently that it's becoming conspicuous and annoying. I don't think anyone is denying that Caroline's got technique issues, so there's no need to harp on Caroline vs Mao et al. Actually, I don't think Mao's basic jumping technique is all that great, seeing as she flutzes and cannot do two (!) standard triples. And you feel sorry for the less hyped up skaters...how bizarre...no one is propping Caroline up at their expense, so again your reaction seems unjustified.
Perhaps you don't like how the hype for Caroline is being stolen away from others. You don't have to needle others who don't feel the same way.
- Joined
- May 2, 2007
i never really understood the hype about caroline, but watching that SP i was blown away.
wonderful spins and spiral sequence.,
wonderful spins and spiral sequence.,
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I'm still not convinced of the noun, hype. In the not so distant past we used the term gush and hype was left for the media.
The Big Apple media does not spend much energy writing about figure skating except when there is something unusual happening.
The Big Apple fans are quite diverse in their tastses, but they do gush as much as everyone else. I don't thinky anyone skater gets more than another.
Regardless of gush or hype I, for one, think Caroline had an exceptionally exqisite Senior debut. Without agreeing or disagreeing with me, can anyone name such a Senior debut from another senior skater or team?
Joe
The Big Apple media does not spend much energy writing about figure skating except when there is something unusual happening.
The Big Apple fans are quite diverse in their tastses, but they do gush as much as everyone else. I don't thinky anyone skater gets more than another.
Regardless of gush or hype I, for one, think Caroline had an exceptionally exqisite Senior debut. Without agreeing or disagreeing with me, can anyone name such a Senior debut from another senior skater or team?
Joe
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
I really enjoyed Kimmie's performance, there was some real artristy to it. I loved it how she distributed all three jumps throughout the program - it was really balanced. What I did not like so much was the lack of speed during the spins and to the end of the program - but otherwise great.
Miki's performance was very good actually, loved the costume and the music. She definitely improved her spins and the spiral sequence.
Miss Zhang is a little girl. She jumps quite well, has extreme flexibility and probably lots of potential. But I still thinks she does not belong there on the ice to compete with women - I know that Mao also competed on the Grand Prix circuit at that age and I did not like that either. 16 is young enough, they do not need tiny kids there. But I stop talking about that now...
I also liked Mao's sister, they really look similar to each other. Nice speed on the ice, jumps wobbly - but well...
Emily has also some amazing flexibility, I just thought that she seemed a bit untrained - but she is also going to school, so that's understandable.
Miki's performance was very good actually, loved the costume and the music. She definitely improved her spins and the spiral sequence.
Miss Zhang is a little girl. She jumps quite well, has extreme flexibility and probably lots of potential. But I still thinks she does not belong there on the ice to compete with women - I know that Mao also competed on the Grand Prix circuit at that age and I did not like that either. 16 is young enough, they do not need tiny kids there. But I stop talking about that now...
I also liked Mao's sister, they really look similar to each other. Nice speed on the ice, jumps wobbly - but well...
Emily has also some amazing flexibility, I just thought that she seemed a bit untrained - but she is also going to school, so that's understandable.
Well, I really wasn't trying to rain on people's parade that much. When I mentioned that Mao and Yu-na were clearly the best, I wasn't just singling out Zhang, I was including Meissner/Ando, etc in that group... Until later on...
As for mentioning the speed/Jump height.. I think there were some posts kind of implying that Zhang was robbed.. So I think mentioning that she suffers from the speed issue, and jump height is quite fair. This being said I thought Zhang was much faster tonight.
As for the hype, I do think the hype can sometimes hurt other skaters, and I think it hurts Zhang as well. Even Zhang's coach has said that Zhang has technical issues to still work on and mentioned at Nationals that the pressure was too much on Zhang. So, that's where I think hype and honestly unrealistic expectations can be bad for a skater...So saying Zhang's better than Michelle was at Michelle's age.. When while Michelle may not have had the same polish, but she had a lot stronger fundamental skills.
This doesn't mean that I don't think Caroline's special, and I don't think that Caroline can't be on the top of the world, but I think Caroline has a ways to go in that regard.
As for hurting other skaters. One could argue that the amount of attention that as thrown on Zhang at nationals, was a bit unfair to the actual winner of the competition Mirai Nagasu.
But in reality, I think the hype is mainly unfair to Caroline...Because it's setting up huge expectations, that she might not be ready for. It's also setting her up to be stalked by the Japanese media...
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I am far from an expert on skating technique, but from what I have read, Caroline needs to correct some very specific technical problems if she wants to go to the big dance. Leg kick, flutz, height and speed are often mentioned. This is not the same as just getting better and better automatically as time goes on.
Exactly, a lot of people not necessarily on this thread but elsewhere, are somehow predicting that Caroline will somehow beat Meissner. Although I did predict this too.
Don't get me wrong, Caroline's definetly prettier.
But basic skating wise, Meissner is the better skater.. And what goes on with the blades, should count for something in the PC scores.
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I think she does the high leg kick when she's pressured. Perhaps then she feels that she has to muscle out the jump to complete the rotations. If you look at the practice clip and her SP at the Japan vs USA competition, you'll notice the leg kick is less pronounced on the flip, almost normal even. But it was back yesterday in her SP. I think she might be working to fix that, but old habits die hard.
I think height and speed can be improved as time goes by. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before, but Kristi Yamaguchi used to jump awfully low too, and she never got dinged for that. Ditto Tara Lipinski. Even though low jumps aren't as aesthetically pleasing to watch, as long as she can complete the rotations, perhaps she can leave off having high jumps on her checklist. The flutz, though, she has to get rid of that stat. Joannie Rochette did it, and she said it took two years, so Caroline better start working on it pronto.
Anda. I think the difference with Yamaguchi and Caroline is the fact that with GOE, skaters can know get extra credit for having excellent jumps.
For example, Yu-na Kim gets huge GOE scores for her jumps, and especially with the new edge take off rules, that's going to give Yu-na Kim an advantage over other skaters... Even perhaps including Mao.
For example, Yu-na Kim gets huge GOE scores for her jumps, and especially with the new edge take off rules, that's going to give Yu-na Kim an advantage over other skaters... Even perhaps including Mao.
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