Lysacek's embarassingly inflated PCS scores, the reason?

[antmanb]

I'm sorry, you've got to be kidding me? Plushenko has superb skating skills and his stroking is to die for. I don't see anything jerky about it :sheesh: I get you're on a hating mission were Plushenko is concerned but umm, it's becoming ridiculous

I wouldn't say he's the best stroker in the world, the Russians seem to have given up the stroking in the mens over to the pairs who still have the very pure efficient stroking. Kulik to me is the last Russian male with exquisite stroking. Both Plushy and Yags for me had some failings in their edging and get their speed more from muscling through than conservation of energy through use of the edge.

I don't think Pluschenko's stroking is necessarily jerky but since the rest of his program is always so frenetic and jerky its difficult sometimes to disconnect the uppre body from the lower body in remembering a program. The guy is probably the best jumper of all time ever. He has an uncanny ability to have his body, arms (and hair!) going in crazy frenetic ways without upsetting his balance. I don't think though that he has the best skating skills - they are very good but they are not the best and there are several skaters of the current crop with better skills (not to mention in other diciplines) and even more in history that have had far superior skating skills.

Give him props for what he does do and for a competitive spirit at least on a par with Witt, but best skating skills...i'd like to see him to a length of alternating 3s with proper posture and extending his free leg properly because he slops his way through basic turns in his free skating programs and i've never seen him do very good moves in the field on the warm up ice either.

Ant

 

[harmonie]

ridiculous

I just love these "when did you stop beating your wife" fallacious arguments that start these threads. In Critical Thinking this is known as the "loaded question" argument.

Perhaps some of our posters could benefit from visiting the following sites before they make these kinds of ridiculous statements.

The person who started this thread is bashing. She is pathological where Evan is concerned and it is apparent for all to see. There is no way on earth I will respond to her post as if her questions are legitimate because she does not want a rational discussion, she just wants a forum to vent her hate, in the guise of responding to posts.

Hi all...I'm very new to this forum, and I've enjoyed reading your opinions so far, but this particular poster stands out for her/his blatant hatred (other than obviously for the inconsistency of his/her arguments).
It would be extremely funny if it wasn't so annoying to see that same bashing going over and over and over everyday.

WHEN are we going to get rid of this particular troll? :blah:.

I hope it happens soon...

 

[Mathman]

Guys, I'm pretty sure that Slutskayafan21 doesn't hate Lysacek or anyone else. He just takes delight in stirring up contentious discussion and in scoring debating points, LOL.

There are already 42 responses to this thread -- many along the lines of, "aaagh, go away, you idiot" -- so we have to admit that S-fan is pretty good at his job, LOL.

Never a boring day here at the Golden Skate Forum!

Mathman

 

[slutskayafan21]

It depends what you mean by "ok" the PCS are marked as a percentage of the prgoram for which the skater is deemed to have done those things well so if someone did ok in everything for most of the program then i don't see why 7s would be that over the top considering i think skaters like Buttle do better than ok for more of the program hence warranting 8s....the judges on the other hand mostly disagree with me!

Ant

Remember scoring is relative. So if you are admitting somebody like Buttle is that superior in PCS areas and he is receiving mid-7s than somebody who is much weaker(eg-Lysacek)should receive something like mid-6s. You seem to be saying Buttle should get higher PCS scores, and thus Lysacek's are ok, but remember scoring is relative to the other skaters, it not neccessarily an exact measurement of quality.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I'm allright with Lysacek, but I watched the Qualifying Round on Eurosport last night.

If ANYBODY worth a 3rd place at the WorldChampionships with a shocking skate like that ( I thought, he will give it up in a certain point of his program going out of the rink), it would be better to cancel the competition or change the whole panel of the judges!!!

Thankfully the disgraceful panel of judges that judged Qualifying Group A are for the most part gone from this competition so they cant embarass the competition again with their shameful scoring.

 

[attyfan]

Don't judges have to give good placements to men under the same circumstances they did so to Sasha? Seriously, I read on MSNBC that Evan is ill, so please pray for him.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Don't judges have to give good placements to men under the same circumstances they did so to Sasha? Seriously, I read on MSNBC that Evan is ill, so please pray for him.

What were the circumstances they gave good placements to Sasha?

 

[attyfan]

What were the circumstances they gave good placements to Sasha?

I was thinking of her Oly free skate.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I was thinking of her Oly free skate.

I hope you dont think that is an example of fair judging.

 

[attyfan]

I hope you dont think that is an example of fair judging.

I understand how CoP could lead to such a result -- high level spins, back loaded programs, and, insufficient deductions for falls --- but I do believe that the results merely illustrate a major fault of the CoP. Given that the CoP can yield such a result for a ladies skater, it should apply equally to the men. When the ISU is faced with further declines in TV ratings and ticket sales, then maybe, they will change the CoP, so that clean programs are encouraged, but until they do so, it should apply to male skaters and female skaters, equally.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I understand how CoP could lead to such a result -- high level spins, back loaded programs, and, insufficient deductions for falls --- but I do believe that the results merely illustrate a major fault of the CoP. Given that the CoP can yield such a result for a ladies skater, it should apply equally to the men. When the ISU is faced with further declines in TV ratings and ticket sales, then maybe, they will change the CoP, so that clean programs are encouraged, but until they do so, it should apply to male skaters and female skaters, equally.

I believe the ISU will face this situation very soon. I follow TV ratings on skating and they have been dropping this year, I am sure you are aware of this as well. Heck American Idol in the U.S had more rating than Olympic figure skating.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Don't judges have to give good placements to men under the same circumstances they did so to Sasha? Seriously, I read on MSNBC that Evan is ill, so please pray for him.

Ok... I know this is wrong to say, but if figure skating is to be taken seriously, then is it fair to give placement scores for those who show up for competiton sick, injured, have bad fall, whatnot?

I know I'm still bitter about that silver awarded in pairs, but come on!! If we start justifying bad scoring by saying this one's sick, that one's injured ~ how will we ever define a worthy program? If that's the case, Irina & Michelle should have been given twin medals, along with S&Z...

I do hope that Evan recovers and its not a serious illness, but that shouldn't justify a placement if he can't perform at a world class level...

 

[slutskayafan21]

By the way according to EvanLysacekfan Evan will pass Stephane for the gold if he skates "the performances of his life" regardless if Stephane skates cleanly or not. Yet a) people think I am an Evan hater since I dispute ridiculous claims like that, and b) the fact anybody would even dare to think something like that, people wonder why I claim he is overscored. It really is hilarious.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Ok... I know this is wrong to say, but if figure skating is to be taken seriously, then is it fair to give placement scores for those who show up for competiton sick, injured, have bad fall, whatnot?

I know I'm still bitter about that silver awarded in pairs, but come on!! If we start justifying bad scoring by saying this one's sick, that one's injured ~ how will we ever define a worthy program? If that's the case, Irina & Michelle should have been given twin medals, along with S&Z...

I do hope that Evan recovers and its not a serious illness, but that shouldn't justify a placement if he can't perform at a world class level...

Judges have been giving free points on PCS to numerous skaters with illnesses or injuries, they are called pity marks. How do you explain Zhang/Zhang scoring higher on PCS than they had all year in the long program in Turin for their worst, but most courageous performance of the year.

 

[attyfan]

Ok... I know this is wrong to say, but if figure skating is to be taken seriously, then is it fair to give placement scores for those who show up for competiton sick, injured, have bad fall, whatnot? ...

I do hope that Evan recovers and its not a serious illness, but that shouldn't justify a placement if he can't perform at a world class level...

The request for prayer for Evan's illness was intended to be separate from the analogy between his treatment by the judges and the treatment that Sasha receives. I don't think Sasha's scores were inflated by "pity" (IMO, if the CoP operated like I think it should be, she would have not gotten such high scores -- but the ISU hasn't asked me how it should be operated).

I recall Dick Button saying, though, that the judges are humans, just like the audience "and what impresses us, impresses them." Great comebacks, be it from illness, injury, fall, or disasterous SPs, are impressive to us, and such things have impressed the judges long before the CoP (will probably outlast the CoP, also) simply because all people -- audience and judges -- are impressed by guts, and I don't care if you are talking about Z/Z or Slute.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

The request for prayer for Evan's illness was intended to be separate from the analogy between his treatment by the judges and the treatment that Sasha receives. I don't think Sasha's scores were inflated by "pity" (IMO, if the CoP operated like I think it should be, she would have not gotten such high scores -- but the ISU hasn't asked me how it should be operated).

I recall Dick Button saying, though, that the judges are humans, just like the audience "and what impresses us, impresses them." Great comebacks, be it from illness, injury, fall, or disasterous SPs, are impressive to us, and such things have impressed the judges long before the CoP (will probably outlast the CoP, also) simply because all people -- audience and judges -- are impressed by guts, and I don't care if you are talking about Z/Z or Slute.

True... I've been watching skating long enought to know that what you say is true. I'm probably just looking for yet another excuse to complain about Z/Z's marks...

 

[soogar]

I understand how CoP could lead to such a result -- high level spins, back loaded programs, and, insufficient deductions for falls --- but I do believe that the results merely illustrate a major fault of the CoP. Given that the CoP can yield such a result for a ladies skater, it should apply equally to the men. When the ISU is faced with further declines in TV ratings and ticket sales, then maybe, they will change the CoP, so that clean programs are encouraged, but until they do so, it should apply to male skaters and female skaters, equally.

Personally I think COP just shows that skaters who don't give up on their program after serious errors are better off than skaters who fall and then give up. My opinion of Evan that despite those horrible errors, skated with more energy and really exploited every nook and cranny of his program to get points. Klimkin skated clean but there was no choreo and it was straight jump set up with no cantilever.

 

[tarotx]

Even under the 6.0 system skaters who were judged to have more difficulty but had major mistakes often placed infront of those deemed to have less difficulty yet were clean.

 

[Mafke]

My opinion of Evan that despite those horrible errors, skated with more energy and really exploited every nook and cranny of his program to get points. Klimkin skated clean but there was no choreo and it was straight jump set up with no cantilever.

1. PCS largely tracks with TES, you get high TES and the PCS follows (with some occasional exceptions both ways).

2. Whatever good points COP may have (and I think it does have some), it seems to unduly punish truly original skaters. Klimkin's inventive off-the-wall choreography is not going to get high PCS because the judges can't compare it to anything else cause it's not _like_ anything else. So he has to dumb-down his program to Plushenko-like skate around and jump (without the sure jump technique or arrogrant confidence of Plushenko). I don't think the judges hate Klimkin, they just have no idea what to do with classic Klimkin and he's trying to adapt and become something that they can deal with. I think he'd be an amazing show skater (after a season or two to work with audiences and figure out how to tailor his strengths to show-skating formats) but without the big titles he probably won't get the chance.

 

[Longhornliz]

I havent check to see whats going on at worlds... but I do think its funny that we all spend so much time giving these athletes a hard time. Anyone who makes it to worlds is clearly a FANTASTIC skater. There is almost no argument to be made about them being bad at certain elements in their skating... they wouldnt be at this elite level unless they were gifted.

I assume that we are all fans of the sport in general, sure we have our favorite, and sure we root for certain skaters to win... but whats the point in picking apart a skater and claiming that their scores are ridiculous. Just say you prefer someone else more.

No one on this forum is a judge (as far as I know)

PS

Hi all. I havent posted in ages it feels like