Madison Chock & Evan Bates

[Snow63]

I agree, and they also look very very solid already which is something they've sometimes struggled with in the past so to be honest I don't mind if they don't add another set- if they can actually do these like this every time, no need in my opinion.

I really like the dance in general. Madison in particular really really nails this kind of music. I do think Evan is not quite as comfortable with it yet but honestly I think everyone's eyes are going to be drawn much more to Madison anyway so I think as long as he can avoid making a fool of himself (which he definitely is not doing) it should all work out well.

I actually thought the score was very strong for a first outing- unless I'm mistaken they didn't crack 70 till much later last year so in that sense this is an improvement though of course it's probably disappointing to them to have G/P score so close to them and C/L above them. G/P are only so close because they scored higher on the tech mark, though, and that's something Madison and Evan will surely be able to improve.

You can't really compare this season's scores for SD with previous seasons. Since ISU added second required step sequence instead of one section of pattern dance, base value of whole dance is higher.

Maximum BV last season - 29.7 points.
Max BV this season - 33.3 points.

Chock/Bates BV at Nebelhorn was 29.7, which is equal to max possible BV from last season (with all level 4s), that's why the score seems big. But in fact, it's not even that big, it's normal for this season.

Edit: Pardon me, I meant Cappellini/Lanotte's BV, obviously

 

[mylifeback]

Seeing this SD makes me so excited for this season. I just loved the performance especially the entrance into the twizzles which was totally awesome (and the best choreographed twizzle sequence they've ever had altho I loved the twizzles from last year's SD), and the so cool hip hop step sequence. Their PCS score is fantastic, so once they polish this & get the tech scores sorted, the scores will be even better. This is a great vehicle for them this year, so fun! Ah, I am excited!!

 

[WeakAnkles]

Watch Evan at the beginning of the hip hop second half. Boyfriend does NOT have white boy hips. Now if he can loosen up like that for the rest of the program, I'd be a very happy camper. He's always going to have to deal with looking like the quintessential "nice boy next door," but he can dance.

Congrats to Mr Ward for incorporating genuine hip hop choreography into the step sequence. And for choosing a real blues song.

Yes, they need speed, and yes a third set of twizzles would help, but this is definitely one of the better SD programs I've seen so far.

 

[apons575]

GO MADI AND EVAN!!!!!! Love the new SD!!! Thank you Rohene!!!

 

[Snow63]

Okay, after rewatching the whole competition I think I'm ready to admit it... I think it's their best SD to date (including previous partnerships for both)
It's so stylish and cool, never in million years I thought I'm gonna like blues and hip-hop mix :hap36: Seriously, I was VERY sceptical about it.
And damn, doesn't Madi looks HOT in this outfit? I think I need to order an official stan card now. This dance is even better than that scrapped Gypsy waltz.

Edit: And honestly, those people who say that there was no difference between blues and hip-hop parts should check their eyes. Like, really? They probably will not recognize hip-hop even if it'll kick them in the..... groin

 

[Astrid56]

Totally agree, this SD is their best so far. Now, i think, they need to up their lifts and hip-hop their step-pattern a bit and add that 3rd twizzle. Madi's star shines brightly in this program. Evan needs to loosen a bit. Hip-hop is unconventional, defiant and fearless. He needs to unwind a bit to make his part pop.

 

[Astrid56]

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/09/23/202920784

Frankly, I don't know how they lost to C/L. Their program is clearly more superior than the winners'. At first, I don't know what to make of the music - there seems to be a disconnect but the more I watched it, the more it grows on you. Effortless lifts, transitions ... and well-executed steps and changes. I believe, they simply have to skate this program with more conviction, appropriate varying power and speed to convey the theme, their narrative ... to firm up the look that they want. Choreographically, it is well conceptualized and stated. It 's a very different skate for them and, I love how they took that risk - a clear departure of what they used to do. Dean's choreographic style is so evident in this program - thought-provoking, challenging _ questioning. I am getting carried away - the theatre training in me is heightened by this program.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

I've watched the free dance four times already. I AM OBSESSED. It is so fresh and different from any competitive program they've ever done, and Dean's choreography is SO difficult. I hope and pray Igor doesn't water it down because they finished second to C/L and their recycled material (blah). They just need to get more mileage on the program and become a little more comfortable with it. I was afraid of what the remix of the song would sound like, but I really, really like it. It has good highs and lows and builds to the end. The end of that song always gives me chills, and this program is giving me all the feels.

 

[Astrid56]

I hope they will keep the program in its entirety - no changes ... just skate it with more conviction ... more power and speed. I love the changes in the musical arrangement - very helpful in telling their narrative. Practice, practice until they can skate it with more freedom, comfort, expression, etc.

 

[mylifeback]

At first, I didn't know what to make of the FD because I instantly loved the SD (and didn't instantly love this), and because this FD is so unexpected from C/B. But, I've watched & watched and now love it. I, too, hope they don't change it, just practice it until it's second nature and they can achieve the speed they're known for. The lifts are fabulous, the transitions (especially in & out of the spin, wow) really knocked me out. Evan is more prevalent in this dance vs. the SD; it's almost like Madison is his prop in this, at least that's how I felt with the choreo having him spin & toss her around, etc.

Just loved it. Keep it please! I agree with others that both programs are big risks that I'm so glad they took in the year before the Olympics. Have the judges get a totally different look from them, it makes perfect sense. I'm so excited for this season!

Meant to add that I've seen Evan looking winded & sweaty after a program but I can't remember ever seeing Madison looking sweaty so this program must have been quite a workout.

 

[katha]

I think both their programs are really cool and interesting, I can't wait to see how they will look once they are more secure in skating them. Also hope that they won't do drastic changes that will make everything more streamlined and generic. All the time ice dancers keep on talking about how "different" they want to be and how their dances are supposed to bring something new, but I think Madison and Evan didn't just talk, they actually went out and did it! :thumbsup:

What does concern me here are the PCS, though. They can work on technical elements. But if the judges decide they don't want those programs, that will be a problem. Their PCS were lower, not significantly lower, but it was clear enough, than C/L and their frankly very safe programs. Their PCS have usually been higher than the Italians' in the last two years or so, so that's where my worry comes in. Is that just a blip or are the judges sending a message that they don't want to see these kinds of dances?

 

[Snow63]

The FD in very cool and innovative, I like the elements, the transitions and the style, but I did't like the music edit. I would like them to change some parts of it, honestly.

As for losing to Cappellini/Lanotte? I don't why why people are complaining, to be honest. The answer is pretty simple for me. Judges give marks not only to dances, but to preformances of these dances also. And clearly Cappellini/Lanotte had stronger performance, they looked much more polished and had close to perfect for this time of the year skate. While Madi and Evan had couple of minor mistakes and even one visible mistake in their Diagonal Step Sequence in FD, and also one big costly mistake in their Partial Step Sequence in SD. They lost the competition in SD, that separation in PSt costed them 1 level and 1.5 points (their combined score is less than 1.5 points lower).

So IMO, the outcome of this competition is positive, not negative and not even mixed. They know their mistakes now, they will work on them, it's still pretty early.

 

[Snow63]

I think both their programs are really cool and interesting, I can't wait to see how they will look once they are more secure in skating them. Also hope that they won't do drastic changes that will make everything more streamlined and generic. All the time ice dancers keep on talking about how "different" they want to be and how their dances are supposed to bring something new, but I think Madison and Evan didn't just talk, they actually went out and did it! :thumbsup:

What does concern me here are the PCS, though. They can work on technical elements. But if the judges decide they don't want those programs, that will be a problem. Their PCS were lower, not significantly lower, but it was clear enough, than C/L and their frankly very safe programs. Their PCS have usually been higher than the Italians' in the last two years or so, so that's where my worry comes in. Is that just a blip or are the judges sending a message that they don't want to see these kinds of dances?

They lost PCS to Cappellini/Lanotte in the beginning of the last season too. By higher margin, check their GP protocols. And look where they ended up in the end of the season? In my opinion, it's too early to ring that bell.

 

[humbaba]

The FD in very cool and innovative, I like the elements, the transitions and the style, but I did't like the music edit. I would like them to change some parts of it, honestly.

As for losing to Cappellini/Lanotte? I don't why why people are complaining, to be honest. The answer is pretty simple for me. Judges give marks not only to dances, but to preformances of these dances also. And clearly Cappellini/Lanotte had stronger performance, they looked much more polished and had close to perfect for this time of the year skate. While Madi and Evan had couple of minor mistakes and even one visible mistake in their Diagonal Step Sequence in FD, and also one big costly mistake in their Partial Step Sequence in SD. They lost the competition in SD, that separation in PSt costed them 1 level and 1.5 points (their combined score is less than 1.5 points lower).

So IMO, the outcome of this competition is positive, not negative and not even mixed. They know their mistakes now, they will work on them, it's still pretty early.

This is an accurate assessment, IMO. At this point in the season, I don't expect perfection. If a team is perfect this early on, it can be an indication they're not challenging themselves.

 

[dcnative]

I agree that the SD mistake was costly, but IMO C/L shouldn't have been anywhere near them technically for the FD. C/L had a pretty empty program; especially compared to the difficulty of C/B's program. I think Piper and Paul had a more difficult program than C/L.

 

[Snow63]

I agree that the SD mistake was costly, but IMO C/L shouldn't have been anywhere near them technically for the FD. C/L had a pretty empty program; especially compared to the difficulty of C/B's program. I think Piper and Paul had a more difficult program than C/L.

What do you mean by difficulty? Each program have the same amount of elements, and these elements marked by judges according to the list of predetermined criterias. All of the elements Cappellini/Lanotte performed met all necessary criterias to score high, so I don't see why their TES should not be anywhere near close to Chock/Bates.

Look, this is not constructive conversation if there's no arguments except 'program looks empty', it's not how TES works, and here's not the place for it. If you want we can move to Nebelhorn thread or discuss it via PM.

P.S. But I do think that some of component scores (such as SS and TR) for Cappellini/Lanotte's FD were higher than probably should be. But performance, interpretation of the music and timing were very good.

 

[dorispulaski]

Just so there's a link to their Nebelhorn FD on the thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqEpFtkq_gs

I really, really like the last 2/3 of this dance. The music works, the 2nd lift is a real corker and the dance spin/choreo spinning movement is totally spellbinding and complex. It does not look like any other FD they have had before, and they have a unique, modern, too cool for school look here that is their very own, like no one else before.

The first 1/3 has a huge dead spot in it, both musically and content wise, so that the transition to the really good part is problematic.

But I think it is in a great state for this time of year, far better than Rach 2 at this point last year.

I hope someone interviews Christopher Dean about his concept for the dance. I want to read more about it! Is he happy about how Madison and Evan are performing his opus?

Great job guys!

C&L have done that same sort of FD at least twice before, and the SD more than that; of course they will look very expert.

Madi & Evan's dances will be a joy to watch all season!!! imo

With some minor polishing, I think they will be able to kick butt and take names with them.

 

[Snow63]

Just so there's a link to their Nebelhorn FD on the thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqEpFtkq_gs

I really, really like the last 2/3 of this dance. The music works, the 2nd lift is a real corker and th dance spin/choreo spinning movement is totally unique and cool.

The first 1/3 has a huge dead spot in it, both musically and content wise, so that the transition to the good part is problematic.

But I think it is in a great state for this time of year, far better than Rach 2 at this point last year.

I hope someone interviews Christopher Dean about his concept for the dance. I want to read more about it! Is he happy about how Madison and Evan are performing his opus?

Great job guys!

C&L have done that same sort of FD at least twice before, and the SD more than that; of course they will look very expert.

With some minor polishing, these dances will be a joy to watch all season!!! imo

Yes, exactly.
I remember last season when I 've seen their FD first time I posted something like 'they're toast this season'. I thought it was very weak and basic. But I was in love with it at GPF and then at Worlds.

Edit: I rememer people criticized them a couple of years ago for their 'American musical' style and programs. Just look at what they've done since then: awesome gypsy-themed waltz, Rach 2, hip-hop themed SD and this very fresh and innovative 'Under pressure' FD. Who's recycling now?

 

[chameleon]

I always saw glimmers of potential in Rach 2, but I was comoeltely wowed by their performance at worlds. One of their best skates ever. I agree that there needs to be some tweaking, no need to overhaul completely or anything, just some adjustments to make it really shine and then drilling until they're perfect. The choreography for both programs is so difficult and interesting and there are some really unusual transitions. They're really doing something new this season and I love it.

 

[dcnative]

What do you mean by difficulty? Each program have the same amount of elements, and these elements marked by judges according to the list of predetermined criterias. All of the elements Cappellini/Lanotte performed met all necessary criterias to score high, so I don't see why their TES should not be anywhere near close to Chock/Bates.

Look, this is not constructive conversation if there's no arguments except 'program looks empty', it's not how TES works, and here's not the place for it. If you want we can move to Nebelhorn thread or discuss it via PM.

P.S. But I do think that some of component scores (such as SS and TR) for Cappellini/Lanotte's FD were higher than probably should be. But performance, interpretation of the music and timing were very good.

I did not post my opinion on their program to have a conversation with you; based on the tone of your response to me, you don't know anything about having a constructive conversation, at least not starting one. If you have so much technical expertise to offer why don't you step over to the Nebelhorn thread where I asked for clarification about how C/L could be scored so close to C/B and I gave specifics; to which I did not see a response from you.