Mao Asada plans comeback

[daphenaxa]

Nah. After Sochi, those Koreans are on the Sotnikova hate train like 3874% over Asada. Mao never "stole" any title over Yuna; if she did, it was always because Yuna flubbed up. If it was Adelina vs. Mao in Pyeongchang, I would bet the Koreans would choose Mao to win even with the whole Korea-Japan hostility in mind.

Yeah. Adelina herself said she was a bit scared that the next olympics were held in South Korea

 

[clippers8200]

Nah. After Sochi, those Koreans are on the Sotnikova hate train like 3874% over Asada. Mao never "stole" any title over Yuna; if she did, it was always because Yuna flubbed up. If it was Adelina vs. Mao in Pyeongchang, I would bet the Koreans would choose Mao to win even with the whole Korea-Japan hostility in mind.

Yes - the sentiment in Korea is much more against Adelina than Mao. I wouldn't be surprised if Adelina was boo'd throughout the entirety of her performance. It isn't her "fault" that she beat Yuna, but the atmosphere in Pyeongchang will not be favorable to her.

I actually think that Koreans' views of Mao significantly improved after the 2014 OG.

 

[Sandpiper]

Nah. After Sochi, those Koreans are on the Sotnikova hate train like 3874% over Asada. Mao never "stole" any title over Yuna; if she did, it was always because Yuna flubbed up. If it was Adelina vs. Mao in Pyeongchang, I would bet the Koreans would choose Mao to win even with the whole Korea-Japan hostility in mind.

...that's my point? Adelina winning again would be a very, very long shot, even more so than Mao winning at 27 (for those reasons, and because repeating is difficult, plus she's inconsistent).

 

[aa456]

we can't predict what team Japan or Team Russia would look like by the time Pyeongchang 2018 rolls around so let's take it one year at a time.

 

[Seren]

While all the issues mentioned make it unlikely Sotnikova would repeat I think the most compelling reason is that it will be difficult for any of the Russians to make the team, there are a lot of really good young skaters and we are still 3 years away. That's what happens when you pump a lot of money into your skating program. While I don't deny Adelinas talent, she is inconsistent and hasn't even yet proved she can return from her injury. For all our talk of Mao vs Adelina it's quite possible/likely the match up we see features neither of these skaters. (But I still want to see Mao return!).

 

[anyanka]

I'm going to take the blame for mentioning Adelina in the first place, but let's focus on Mao and her return.

 

[solani]

...that's my point? Adelina winning again would be a very, very long shot, even more so than Mao winning at 27 (for those reasons, and because repeating is difficult, plus she's inconsistent).

Exactly, f.e. Carolina had her best performances at 27. And I don't think that we've seen all of what Mao can do yet, artistically and technically.

 

[anyanka]

Exactly, f.e. Carolina had her best performances at 27. And I don't think that we've seen all of what Mao can do yet, artistically and technically.

Then we will all be in for a treat.

 

[Crystallize]

Anyway, it'll be a few days before Mao makes her announcement. It may be too soon to assume that her return will be with the aim of going to the 2018 Olympics. Maybe she plans for a farewell season. I just hope she does what she wants, and that JSF isn't pressuring her in some way...

 

[kiara_bleu]

I don't think JSF is pressuring Mao to comeback although they will probably be very happy if she does anyway. Hanyu has become incredibly popular and still has room to grow as competitor so there is no danger of fans leaving the sport if Mao decides to retire. Also Satoko Miyahara has shown herself to be not only a talented and consistent skater but that she can handle pressure well.

Mao is reminding me so much of Michelle Kwan's career in that not getting that OGM will hardly tarnish her accomplishments, she is/will still be seen as one of the great skaters and loved for that (especially in Japan). But for somebody who is such a great competitor and passionate about skating, I think there will still be that strong desire to try for another Olympics.

 

[Crystallize]

I don't think JSF is pressuring Mao to comeback although they will probably be very happy if she does anyway. Hanyu has become incredibly popular and still has room to grow as competitor so there is no danger of fans leaving the sport if Mao decides to retire. Also Satoko Miyahara has shown herself to be not only a talented and consistent skater but that she can handle pressure well.

Mao is reminding me so much of Michelle Kwan's career in that not getting that OGM will hardly tarnish her accomplishments, she is/will still be seen as one of the great skaters and loved for that (especially in Japan). But for somebody who is such a great competitor and passionate about skating, I think there will still be that strong desire to try for another Olympics.

Mao is one of the skaters who brings the money in for JSF, for real. So I personally think there has to be some pressure there. Like even if she's just considering it and has voiced this to the federation, they would jump to get her to come back.

I hope that if she does decide against a return, people won't be too angry or disappointed. We can still see her in shows. And we have videos on youtube to watch.

 

[kiara_bleu]

Mao is one of the skaters who brings the money in for JSF, for real. So I personally think there has to be some pressure there. Like even if she's just considering it and has voiced this to the federation, they would jump to get her to come back.

I hope that if she does decide against a return, people won't be too angry or disappointed. We can still see her in shows.

Is Hanyu not in the same level as Mao yet in terms of bringing money in to JSF? Is it the same sort of situation for Japan as in the U.S. where the female single skaters are the main attraction? Whatever she decides, I hope she gives a definite answer during this press conference for her sake. I find it ridiculous when skaters won't give definitive answers but instead seem to just string everyone along. I know some are legitimately undecided but sometimes it feels like someone (federation, sponsors, etc) has told them to never say the word "retirement".

 

[Crystallize]

Is Hanyu not in the same level as Mao yet in terms of bringing money in to JSF? Is it the same sort of situation for Japan as in the U.S. where the female single skaters are the main attraction? Whatever she decides, I hope she gives a definite answer during this press conference for her sake. I find it ridiculous when skaters won't give definitive answers but instead seem to just string everyone along. I know some are legitimately undecided but sometimes it feels like someone (federation, sponsors, etc) has told them to never say the word "retirement".

Oh, Hanyu is popular. So it is possible that he is bringing in quite a bit of money. Not sure about the same level. But it is possible. Male figure skaters can be just as popular in Japan. Daisuke Takahashi has/had a mass following of older female fans, who had no problem throwing their money at him. Not literally, of course. As far as I know..LOL.

And, yes! I want her to make it clear what her intentions are. I don't wanna hear speculation for months on end. It's nothing but disappointment. :disagree:

No pressure, Mao.

 

[solani]

With this discussion about Yuna and Adelina again I come to the conclusion, that it was kind of good, that Mao didn't skate well in the SP in Sochi.
Because if she would have skated well, we would have had either a clean Carolina or an almost clean or clean Mao without a medal and that would have been heartbreaking.

But I think that Mao, if she really returns, will try to compete in 2018. She has something to prove to herself still. All the rule-changing before Vancouver really hurt her and she didn't have enough time to prepare for that, the rule-changes after Vancouver helped her and so she really had a shot at Gold in Sochi, but it wasn't meant to be (maybe anyway).

I don't think that JSF can really put pressure on her. What could they do to her, except asking and telling her that they would support her? Like will all do?

 

[gotoschool]

From what I have read, it sounds like Mao wants to come back but there is still a little uncertainty if she will be ready to perform at the level she wants. As she said in an article translated by rosewood, " "I have a feeling that I'd like to try." It sounds like she wants to train with Coach Sato to see if she can perform at the level she had before. I think her earnestly practicing the triple axel so soon after doing an interview with Midori Ito indicates that she will not give up on it no matter what and I doubt that she will return unless she feels she can land it to her level of satisfaction.

I watch skating for great performances in spite of the bizarre and what looks to me like an often manipulated scoring system. In some ways, I wish Mao would retire to avoid the score manipulation, but then I would miss her great performances, so I guess I have to take the good with the bad.

Here is a song that Mao played on her radio show which gives an insight into her view of rules, which could very well express her feelings about the ISU rules. though I don't know for sure. Thanks to rosewood for the translation:

"Rule" Lyrics by Ayumi Hamasaki

The following lyrics were mentioned by Mao during her radio show on I believe March 30.

*Rules decided by someone
No need for such damn things

**Same old damn rules
I don't want to be forced
Start from demolishing them
You and me**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZDcJPMOKsk

Mao often trained to these lyrics according to rosewood. rosewood also translated Mao as saying that she had to follow a lot of rules she didn't like when she was skating and that she didn't want to be upset anymore.

I wonder if it will be a test of the scoring system itself if such an elegant and expressive skater as Mao with such outstanding skating skills skates clean or almost clean and loses because of tech calls that are not visible to the naked eye or because PCS scores are tied to high tech scores for other skaters. It has often been the case that the greatest artists and performers throughout history have been those who challenged, didn't fit in or broke from the system or school under which they were evaluated.

 

[gravy]

...that's my point? Adelina winning again would be a very, very long shot, even more so than Mao winning at 27 (for those reasons, and because repeating is difficult, plus she's inconsistent).

Woops, I misread your post. Silly mistake on my part.

 

[daphenaxa]

How much were the loop and axel worth before?
How much were the quads?
That'd be interesting to mark Vancouver programs with the new BV

And I agree for the double axel in the short. That was such a weird rule to keep when they had skaters who could do triple axel. It was detrimental to Mao.
I think they should do the same now with quads for ladies in the short. Yeah maybe no one jumps quad at the moment, but if anybody came to, she couldn't do it in the short.

 

[gotoschool]

After Vancouver there were rule changes that were beneficial for Mao, that is true. But when you look at the rule changes before Vancouver you will agree, that they hurt Mao and were beneficial for f.e. Yuna and Carolina. And Mao didn't have the time to adapt to those changes (or she thought that it wasn't necessary to change things, we don't know).
That's the thing about rule changes, isn't it? Some are happy about them and some aren't. My only opinion on this matter is, that the ISU should have allowed the 3A in the SP much earlier. This was a rule that nobody really could understand. Mao was heavily criticized at times for giving her 3A top priority, keeping it at all costs (points wise and surely neglecting other jumps). She is not a sly skater, she has her principles, her priorities (and the 3A is one of that) and I like her for that. Winning isn't the most important thing.

On the other hand, the removal of the spiral sequence was not beneficial for Mao and that happened after Vancouver because this was arguably her strongest element. Also, the value of GOE was decreased after Vancouver which made it more difficult to break records especially because the extra element- the spiral sequence was removed. I do agree with your view about admiring her for her principles of sticking to the triple axel despite the costs. The reworking of her jumps cost her a great deal, but the end results improved her skating skills and her posture and flow in and out of jumps.

 

[solani]

On the other hand, the removal of the spiral sequence was not beneficial for Mao and that happened after Vancouver because this was arguably her strongest element. Also, the value of GOE was decreased after Vancouver which made it more difficult to break records especially because the extra element- the spiral sequence was removed. I do agree with your view about admiring her for her principles of sticking to the triple axel despite the costs. The reworking of her jumps cost her a great deal, but the end results improved her skating skills and her posture and flow in and out of jumps.

I still think it's ridiculous that the ISU keeps those world records, you just can't keep a record when you change the rules. That the value of GOE decreased after Vancouver helped Mao when she was competing against Yuna, because Yuna was really a incredible fine jumper. But I still think it's good that they decreased the value of GOE, imho they should decrease it even further. (Edge call + negative GOEs and UR + negative GOEs is a bit excessive)
Her spiral sequence was great!

 

[Mathman]

How much were the loop and axel worth before?

How much were the quads?

That'd be interesting to mark Vancouver programs with the new BV.

After Vancouver the 3A went from 8.2 to 8.5. Two years previously it had gone from 7.5 to 8.2.

3Lo went from 5.0 to 5.1.

3F went from 5.5 to 5.3

4T went from 9.8 to to 10.3. Previously it had gone from 9.0 to 9.8.

(For what it's worth, I would do it like this: Each extra revolution triples the difficulty of the jump. So 1T = 0.44, 2T = 1.33, 3T = 4.00, 4T = 12.00, etc. 2A = 3.33, 3A = 10.0, etc. )

As gotoschool and psuanne mentioned, the changes in GOE were more important than the change in base values. Yuna Kim got 17.4 total GOE points in the free skate at Vancouver. With the post-2010 factoring, this would go down to less than 12.