Marshall's Results so far

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Wow. As for Kwan, don't let it be so...if the reports are true and her program really was lacking (and she has ankle problems), then the future may not bold well for her unless she actually steps up her game. Her best days may be behind her.

And we are all hoping for that, aren't we?

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Nice to see Evan moving ahead in the game. I hope this competition gives him the confidence to skate a great Nationals.

Joe

 

[Doggygirl]

Bring on the eggs and tomatoes....

I really am a person who loves to see the BEST out of every competitor in any event, and let the best person win. To me, that's what makes watching competitions of any kind exciting.

Like millions of people, I have enjoyed watching Michelle develop and come to dominate the sport over the years. I'm sure this level of competition has taken it's toll physically over the years, so I don't blame her for taking it easy on the competitions and saving herself for when it really counts. (and we can probably all agree that Marshall's, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't really count)

That being said...

If she had an unexpected ankle injury and that was a problem, totally understand that. Heck, any one of us who are couch potatoes can twist our ankle unexpectedly, etc. etc.

The "red flag" for me was hearing there might have been boot problems. She announced early on that she was basically taking the GP season off to be ready for Nats/Worlds. So boot problems don't make a lot of sense to me right now, if that's what it was. Seems she's had more opportunity than most to work new boots into her schedule when needed.

Yes, it's awesome that she got silver with what folks are saying was a less than stellar performance. She will ALWAYS be awesome, and a cut above the rest. But Irina and Sasha were the only real threats here (unlike World's will be) and it sounds like Sasha didn't have it together either. And Irina prevailed coming off of serious health problems, and a recently vigorous competitive schedule.

I am in no way criticizing Michelle as I could not personally wipe the ice with my rear end in 4.5 minutes, much less put a Program out there. I'm just wondering if her decision to take her comp schedule easy, given what just happened, was the right decision if she plans to contend at World's and possibly Torino. On one hand, competition can wear you out. On the other hand, it can keep you sharp. Finding the right personal balance is key, and I'm wondering if Michelle has found that. On the other hand, this less than "Michelle" performance might just put the fire in her belly for Nats that is "all good."

OK - bring on the eggs!!

DG

 

[Lucy25]

Where are people getting the idea that Michelle is having ankle problems? I have read this several times on this board only and am wondering if I have missed anything.

I was at this event, as well. Michelle was slow, but I really enjoyed the program. Spins and footwork wre new and much more difficult. It seemed as though she was debuting a new program, so she was a bit tentative. Love the cut of her new dress, but wish it weren't blue.

It's funny how fast the programs seem to go when you see them live. I always want them to show a complete replay on the jumbotron afterward!

 

[Doggygirl]

On Michelle's Ankle...

Kwan- She has some type of ankle injury. She only tried up to triple sal in warmup, and that didnt go so well. After the sal attempts she asked over to the boards picked up a skate gaurd and threw it, and slammed open the door half way through the warmup. She Then went over by the kiss and cry and talked with Rafel. The ABC camera were in their faces. I saw this all beacuse I was sitting above the kiss and cry. I Thought she was going to withdraw but she didnt. She went out from her program. and took about five minutes skating, and putting pressure on her ankle,

I wasn't there and didn't see it. This is the type of report I am basing my assumptions on. I hope this assumption is NOT true - and that's she's 100% now, and will continue to be through Nats and Worlds.

I guess what I'm really saying is that if she WAS 100%, and according to her own words has taken the GP season off to train, and be well prepared for the upcoming Big Ones, then this might be a red flag. But for her, this red flag (if it is one) probably comes in time to put a fire in her belly anyway.

I'm just noting my own random thoughts like the rest of us who are not out there on the ice.

DG

 

[clairecloutier]

Based on reports from Marshalls, I am worried about Michelle. It does seem that with no competitions since September, she should have had time to work out these boot problems. And if there are indeed a lot of crossovers and basic footwork in her program, I can't understand why. She knows about COP, has surely been watching the Grand Prix comps so far, and should be adjusting her program accordingly.

Michelle always says all the right things publicly, but sometimes I think there's a part of her that subtly resists change. It's almost as if, secretly, she resents the outside world telling her--a five-time world champion--to change. And although publicly she says she will, inwardly she resists and continues with what is comfortable for her. Meaning no Grand Prix comps, no triple/triples, her traditional footwork, and slowly paced programs.

This worries me, because as much as I love Michelle, I think she does need to change if she's going to win gold at Worlds and Olympics next year (or even win a medal of any type). The competition is strong right now. Not only are Shizuka, Sasha, and Irina still there, Miki Ando and Joannie Rochette are also coming on very strong. Michelle needs to kick it up a notch and it doesn't seem like she's doing that yet.

Nonetheless I am still hopeful Michelle will do well at Nationals and Worlds. I think Irina is emerging as the favorite to win Worlds, but still I would never bet against Michelle. More than any other skater, the success or failure of her performances seems to rest on her emotional state at the time she performs. If she skates with emotion, speed, and attack, I still think she is tough to beat in any competition.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I think that it's smart for Kwan to break new boots right now, 5-6 weeks before Nationals.

I'm also reading reports of Marshalls from FSU and the majority of people have been saying how IMPROVED the program was compared to Campbells., it was just that the performance itself was less than stellar.

I love all the doom and gloom regarding Kwan considering that she's been having problems with her boots and didn't have her triples back till this past Monday.

If Kwan's career died everytime people predicted it to, she'd have more lives than a cat.

 

[RealtorGal]

I'm wondering how long before the competition did Sasha finally receive her skates (which were in her lost luggage). I know she missed her scheduled practice time because she had no skates; I'm wondering whether she got ANY practice time just prior to the competition. Not having any skates... Now that's a problem!

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I'm wondering how long before the competition did Sasha finally receive her skates (which were in her lost luggage). I know she missed her scheduled practice time because she had no skates; I'm wondering whether she got ANY practice time just prior to the competition. Not having any skates... Now that's a problem!

ITA. That's why I think the whole Sasha is finished sentiment is way over-the-top. The girl is recovering from a back injury which prevents her from doing full run-throughs at practices. Then she loses her luggage and her skates the day before Marshalls. She can't practice and didn't get her skates till the day of competition. I am certain she will be in much better shape by Nats.

 

[Lucy25]

I wasn't there and didn't see it. This is the type of report I am basing my assumptions on. I hope this assumption is NOT true - and that's she's 100% now, and will continue to be through Nats and Worlds.

I guess what I'm really saying is that if she WAS 100%, and according to her own words has taken the GP season off to train, and be well prepared for the upcoming Big Ones, then this might be a red flag. But for her, this red flag (if it is one) probably comes in time to put a fire in her belly anyway.

I'm just noting my own random thoughts like the rest of us who are not out there on the ice.

DG

Thanks - I didn't see this posted. I was very close to the K&C and saw clearly Michelle hand her boot to Raphael. While he was inspecting it, Michelle was busy doing something, but she was bent over with her back to me, so I could not see what she was doing. I have read reports that said she was barefoot, and some that say she was wrapping her foot. I hope it was the former and there is no ankle injury!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think this just shows how much interest Michelle and Sasha have in these cheesefests.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Michelle always says all the right things publicly, but sometimes I think there's a part of her that subtly resists change. It's almost as if, secretly, she resents the outside world telling her--a five-time world champion--to change. And although publicly she says she will, inwardly she resists and continues with what is comfortable for her.

I think there is something to that. I know if I were the five-time World Champion (at anything, LOL), I'd be like, "Hey, who's the champion around here, me or the ISU technical committee?"

Michelle says in Blades on Ice: (We've been working on triple-triples and new spins and footwork but...) "It's tough because I've skated so many years under the 6.0 system. The system made me and I don't want to change myself. In the layback spin, you now have to do changes of position and hold your leg to get a higher level. I'm not used to that..."

Anyway, the one thing you can always count on is that Michelle will give the paying customers their money's worth. Even on the COI tour she gives her best at every stop. I knew that something was definitely wrong, with her boots or whatever, for the simple reason that this was the only time I have ever seen Michelle look like she didn't want to be there.

This is in very sharp contrast with her demeanor at Campbell's. Writes Alexandra Stevenson in Blades: "The 24-year-old Kwan, looking incredibly fit, motivated and happy...bounced into the [arena] with all the sleek muscle power and confidence of a cheetah stealthily stalking easy game."

Mathman

 

[R.D.]

Michelle always says all the right things publicly, but sometimes I think there's a part of her that subtly resists change. It's almost as if, secretly, she resents the outside world telling her--a five-time world champion--to change. And although publicly she says she will, inwardly she resists and continues with what is comfortable for her. Meaning no Grand Prix comps, no triple/triples, her traditional footwork, and slowly paced programs.

This worries me, because as much as I love Michelle, I think she does need to change if she's going to win gold at Worlds and Olympics next year (or even win a medal of any type). The competition is strong right now. Not only are Shizuka, Sasha, and Irina still there, Miki Ando and Joannie Rochette are also coming on very strong. Michelle needs to kick it up a notch and it doesn't seem like she's doing that yet.

There's something in what you're saying there. However, I think it's more about adding stuff rather than outright change. She seems to like to stick to her guns, which is fine and all, but IF SHE WANTS TO WIN the status quo will only get her so far. It's weird about Kwan, because at times she displays unwillingness to change (to the new system), and other times she talks about the joy of competing. Then again, if she really didn't like it, she would have retired already. Not like stuff's happened to her before anyway.

I love all the doom and gloom regarding Kwan considering that she's been having problems with her boots and didn't have her triples back till this past Monday.

I'm not sure it's so much "doom and gloom" as it is just worried fans that are concerned with whatever boot problems she had over there. She's always in top shape by nationals anyway. Her fans can rejoice.

ITA. That's why I think the whole Sasha is finished sentiment is way over-the-top. The girl is recovering from a back injury which prevents her from doing full run-throughs at practices. Then she loses her luggage and her skates the day before Marshalls. She can't practice and didn't get her skates till the day of competition. I am certain she will be in much better shape by Nats.

Given her track record, it's certainly possible that she can come surging back. However, for now, based on her performance (s) this season I think she's heading south at the current time. The olympics are quickly approaching, and she hasn't had the opportunity to gain some real confidence. Some of this may not be her doing but this will end up hurting her in the short run. And there are some important comps in that short run...Just my thoughts...I don't think the SC predictions are over-the-top, really. They are just based on what's been happening.

 

[gezando]

Then she loses her luggage and her skates the day before Marshalls. She can't practice and didn't get her skates till the day of competition.

Well losing luggage is unfortunate, but nothing new to skaters. The airline lost Michelle's luggage prior to worlds 2001, and she did not get the luggage in time for the competition, that was why she wore a pink costume for song of the black swan for her 4th world gold performance. Losing luggage and break in new boots prior to a competitions are headaches that skaters face, it happens, will of skating gods. Since 9/11/01 skaters can not carry the blades with them as carry on most of them ship the blades in their check in luggage, and keep the boots with them in the carry on luggage. If the blades are lost, it is not too difficult to get a new pair of blades locally in the competition city. Dealing with a new pair of blades is not as difficult as dealing with a new pair of boots.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Well losing luggage is unfortunate, but nothing new to skaters. The airline lost Michelle's luggage prior to worlds 2001, and she did not get the luggage in time for the competition, that was why she wore a pink costume for song of the black swan for her 4th world gold performance. Losing luggage and break in new boots prior to a competitions are headaches that skaters face, it happens, will of skating gods. Since 9/11/01 skaters can not carry the blades with them as carry on most of them ship the blades in their check in luggage, and keep the boots with them in the carry on luggage. If the blades are lost, it is not too difficult to get a new pair of blades locally in the competition city. Dealing with a new pair of blades is not as difficult as dealing with a new pair of boots.

Are you cetain that her boot wasn't lost with the rest of her luggage? Eitherway, not being able to practice and recovering from a big back injury takes a toll on you.

It's weird about Kwan, because at times she displays unwillingness to change (to the new system),

Really? Is that why she had the head of the ISU technical committee come to Lake Arrowhead to dissect her program under COP? Is that why she asked Morosov to rework her spins and footwork in order to maximize her points for COP, and is that why Morosov and her took a piece of paper and added all the potential points she could garner?
I love all the mind readers here.

 

[Skate Sandee]

As for Kwan, don't let it be so...if the reports are true and her program really was lacking (and she has ankle problems), then the future may not bold well for her unless she actually steps up her game. Her best days may be behind her.

I think this is going to be a case where we have to wait until we see it on TV. All reports I've read agree that it was a subpar performance for Kwan. All reports I've read said she had boot problems. But very few said the program was worse than at Campbells or less choreography. Most reviews have said they saw a lot more difficulty in the in-betweens. Some of those that I read on FSU (snippets):

PauAbd wrote:

I would say that Bolero was completely rechoreographed and that it is clearly more difficult and tailored to the New Judging System. And because of that, Michelle was rather slow. The opening moves have been rechoreographed to have more turns (maybe twizzles, but they might have been easier turns, not sure). The 3 toe/2 loop combo is now approached from the opposite direction. The combination spin included a forward camel on an outside edge and a backward upright spin on an inside edge. The spiral sequence was the same as at Campbell's but unfortunately did not match the music as well. She now ends with the straightline footwork (which had a lot more turns) instead of with a butterfly spin. And the final knee slide does not come to a stop right away. It's one of those gliding endings if you know what I mean.

Capcomop wrote:

Kwan has got some guts. She missed the last minute and a half or so of the warm-up with boot problems. She left the ice, took off the boot and gave it to her coach. He gave her something and when the end of warm-up was called she was still barefoot. She seemed to be wrapping her foot??? Reminded me of watching dancers wrap their feet. The program has changed! She has really added in betweens and some interesting spin positions. She almost never stops moving. It seemed tentative but that could have been the boot. I also think the music has a slower pace that doesn't do her any favors. The jumps didn't look as high and secure as the first cheesefest. Combination of boot problem and lots of choreography?? She had one wonky landing and a two foot.

UMBS wrote:

3toe/2loop to begin, 3flutz/2toe, 3flip, 2axel (shaky, no speed on landing), short layback spin, 3sal (2footed), interesting hand positions and changes of edge on a somewhat slow sit spin combination, spirals look the same as at Campbell’s, sit spin, 3lutz (2footed), nice falling leaf right into a spin, reworked straight-line footwork that has twizzles in the first half. The program has been dramatically reworked since Campbell’s and it looked like she hasn’t gotten comfortable with the latest changes; moreover, she looked more tentative and slower tonight than usual.

So it doesn't sound like the program is LACKING, so much as it's changed dramatically and includes more things. It sounds like there has been much "work in progress" just as Kwan said there would be after the Campbell's competition. Now whether the changes are good or not are TBD. I for one am going to reserve judgement until I see it on TV. Clearly reports are only as good or bad as the eye of the beholder.

 

[RealtorGal]

Are you cetain that her boot wasn't lost with the rest of her luggage? Eitherway, not being able to practice and recovering from a big back injury takes a toll on you.

From a report I read, she had no skates at all. Since there was no alternative, she and Robin opted for doing off-ice training instead.

 

[Ptichka]

Sad for both Johnny and Andrei (though the latter may still be injured); great for Evan.

Soooo excited for Irina! This season, she has already beaten her three major competitors -- Michelle, Sasha, and Shizuka. Not bad for some one who was written off as a has-been!

 

[RealtorGal]

Irina

I don't think she was written off as a has-been, per se. I just don't think that anyone expected her to skate this well considering the illness she's been dealing with. She is an absolutely amazing woman, regardless of whether she wins World's or not.

 

[Doggygirl]

RGal...

I don't think she was written off as a has-been, per se. I just don't think that anyone expected her to skate this well considering the illness she's been dealing with. She is an absolutely amazing woman, regardless of whether she wins World's or not.

ITA, ITA, ITA. She is a role model for the Rest Of Us in terms of dealing with adversity, and the power of positive thinking.

DG