I may be way off but that was no way better than phone in Plushenko
Mens LP
- Thread starter eleonora.d
- Start date
There is no why in hell that Daisuke beat Plushenko's record and I don't even like Plushenko! Daisuke was sloooo as **** and he under=rotates. No wonder noone watches anymore. And he stumbled in his footwork.carry on girls
Uh huh and where was Plushenko's choreography and interpretation? Barely existed and he got superinflated scores for it not to mention his flailing arms. His spins were pretty mediocre too. Plush jumped very well and had fast footwork. Takahashi deserves the record.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2006
Daisuke's LP was fantastic! 
Jam-packed with difficulty and delivered with authority. His quads were amazing, as were his 3a's, and his 3-3 combo looked effortless. He does not underrotate. He is the complete package, as far as I'm concerned -- an artistic skater with solid jumps and spins plus intricate footwork, who delivers his programs with verve and charisma. This performance absolutely deserved to beat "phone in Plushenko's" world record. That is just my opinion, of course.
Jam-packed with difficulty and delivered with authority. His quads were amazing, as were his 3a's, and his 3-3 combo looked effortless. He does not underrotate. He is the complete package, as far as I'm concerned -- an artistic skater with solid jumps and spins plus intricate footwork, who delivers his programs with verve and charisma. This performance absolutely deserved to beat "phone in Plushenko's" world record. That is just my opinion, of course.- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
I think that the Men's Discipline at the World Championships will be the number one discipline to watch now. Very interesting.
Nobody in international competition got over 90 in TES. WOW
Congratulations, Daisuke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody in international competition got over 90 in TES. WOW
Congratulations, Daisuke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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- Joined
- Dec 4, 2005
Access to protocols anyone?
Does anyone have access to the complete report cards or protocols from 4CC?
I am interested in seeing the levels that the top three men got on their spins and footwork. Some of Jeff's spins seem a bit shakey and one is definitely missing a difficulty to get him a level 4. Daisuke seems to have some interesting combinations so I would like to see what levels and any bonus he received.
Great footwork from the top guys. What levels did they get?
Does anyone have access to the complete report cards or protocols from 4CC?
I am interested in seeing the levels that the top three men got on their spins and footwork. Some of Jeff's spins seem a bit shakey and one is definitely missing a difficulty to get him a level 4. Daisuke seems to have some interesting combinations so I would like to see what levels and any bonus he received.
Great footwork from the top guys. What levels did they get?
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
None of the top three got level 4 for their footwork. Takahashi got all those points with his jumps, he had two level 4 and two level three spins - he never got more than +1,00 GOE on a spin or footwork this time.
Look for the protocols at the ISU result page - they were online 15 minutes after the show...
Look for the protocols at the ISU result page - they were online 15 minutes after the show...
They are on the results page-http://www.isufs.org/results/fc2008/
Just click on Judges Scores
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2005
Thanks!
I am so used to the term 'detailed classification' referring to the report cards at domestic competitions. Of course, on the ISU site that only gives you the tech and pcs scores - not the breakdown.
Who'd have thought to look under judges???? Da
I am so used to the term 'detailed classification' referring to the report cards at domestic competitions. Of course, on the ISU site that only gives you the tech and pcs scores - not the breakdown.
Who'd have thought to look under judges???? Da
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
Is it fair to say that PCS is more subject to inflation than TES? The scores here are simply outrageous. At the rate these scores are going, we'll be seeing a 200 not long from now.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
Sure, everything is inflated everywhere in life. Why not the scores?
This year's score is inflated from last year's. This competition's score is inflated from the competitions two months ago. So there is no way you could compare Johnny Weir's flowless LP score at CoC with Jeffrey Buttle's LP score here.
hwell:
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
I know that Takahashi is great and everything and I liked his performance (I just don't think that he deserves so many points). He should have won but I think that he was a little overmarked, especially the GOE's for his jumps are in my opinion a bit too high - compared to the GOE's other skaters get for their jumps. The judges can give him +2,00 GOE for his Triple Axel, but please, then give other skaters as much GOE for their jumps if those are outstanding. Again, I don't want to bash Takahashi but I think the judges should put these marks into perspective.
For example, Lambiel's loop. IMO one of the best loops out there - he does a few very quick turns that look like part of his footwork, jumps quite high, beautiful air position and lands with this deep-knee-soft-Lambiel-landing (e.g. Europeans, third jumping pass in the program). If Takahashi's Triple Axel is between 1,5 GOE and 2,5 GOE - then this loop is at least 2,0 GOE. But Lambiel never gets these 2,0 GOE. Or Jeremy Abbott's loop today, 4 minutes into the program - no preperation, practically part of his footwork and amazingly done. He got +1,00 GOE - but what could he have done better to get as much GOE as Takahashi for a Triple Axel?
The last years very few jumps got more than 1,5 GOE, that was practically the highest GOE you could get for a jump. Even Plushenko never got more than 2,0 GOE. And if the judges suddenly start throwing 2,0 and 2,43 at Takahashi's Axels I would really like to know why. What makes Takahashi's jumps suddenly so much better than everyone else's?
Takahashi should have won the competition. But not by a margin of 30 points. I think that the judges want to crown a new Plushenko and they use GOE and also PCS to do it. I think that Takahashi deserves his high PCS - but if he deserves 82 points, Jeremy Abbott should get 80 points. By the way - my favourite program is Abbott's - just wow. So original, creative, fluent - his spins don't have crazy positions, they aren't overly fast - but are so well-centered and elegant - none of the gentlemen's spins today could match the basic quality Abbott's spins had.
For example, Lambiel's loop. IMO one of the best loops out there - he does a few very quick turns that look like part of his footwork, jumps quite high, beautiful air position and lands with this deep-knee-soft-Lambiel-landing (e.g. Europeans, third jumping pass in the program). If Takahashi's Triple Axel is between 1,5 GOE and 2,5 GOE - then this loop is at least 2,0 GOE. But Lambiel never gets these 2,0 GOE. Or Jeremy Abbott's loop today, 4 minutes into the program - no preperation, practically part of his footwork and amazingly done. He got +1,00 GOE - but what could he have done better to get as much GOE as Takahashi for a Triple Axel?
The last years very few jumps got more than 1,5 GOE, that was practically the highest GOE you could get for a jump. Even Plushenko never got more than 2,0 GOE. And if the judges suddenly start throwing 2,0 and 2,43 at Takahashi's Axels I would really like to know why. What makes Takahashi's jumps suddenly so much better than everyone else's?
Takahashi should have won the competition. But not by a margin of 30 points. I think that the judges want to crown a new Plushenko and they use GOE and also PCS to do it. I think that Takahashi deserves his high PCS - but if he deserves 82 points, Jeremy Abbott should get 80 points. By the way - my favourite program is Abbott's - just wow. So original, creative, fluent - his spins don't have crazy positions, they aren't overly fast - but are so well-centered and elegant - none of the gentlemen's spins today could match the basic quality Abbott's spins had.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
^^ Medusa, I totally agree with you! Lovely post!! 
I love Stephane, Jeremy, and Dai, but yeah, I do feel the judging here was inflated for Takahashi and deflated for Abbott, who was laughably beaten in PCS by Stephen Carriere of all people. That's like Tim Goebel beating John Curry or Robin Cousins in presentation. Just UNBELIEVABLE! Abbott did have the 2nd highest TES in the competition behind Daisuke, so I guess I'm thankful for that small victory. The PCS are a total joke though! I'm convinced more than ever that skaters in the final group automatically get higher PCS scores than earlier skaters, like Abbott who was in the 2nd to last group. Also, I think consistency plays a huge factor in PCS scoring even if the skater has the presentation of Tim Goebel. Just, UGH!
I love Stephane, Jeremy, and Dai, but yeah, I do feel the judging here was inflated for Takahashi and deflated for Abbott, who was laughably beaten in PCS by Stephen Carriere of all people. That's like Tim Goebel beating John Curry or Robin Cousins in presentation. Just UNBELIEVABLE! Abbott did have the 2nd highest TES in the competition behind Daisuke, so I guess I'm thankful for that small victory. The PCS are a total joke though! I'm convinced more than ever that skaters in the final group automatically get higher PCS scores than earlier skaters, like Abbott who was in the 2nd to last group. Also, I think consistency plays a huge factor in PCS scoring even if the skater has the presentation of Tim Goebel. Just, UGH!
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Takahashi's win does not surprise me. Nice going for Jeffrey, and it seems that Evan's SP is now better than his LP but congrats to all. Men's skating has come of age!!
btw, I really don't think Johnny would have figured in this. Good he stayed away.
Joe
btw, I really don't think Johnny would have figured in this. Good he stayed away.
Joe
Weir did not beat Lysacek in the most important international event of the season (= GPF) where they both competed. About quantity/quality, based on scores the international judges have been seeing quality in Lysacek´s skating in this season also, but the problem has been that there has not been enough quantity so far.
About the men´s freeskate in Four Continents my impression is that for the medalists the scoring was very inflated, even more than at Europeans. Maybe the judges will be more realistic at Worlds, at least I hope so.
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- Joined
- Nov 2, 2006
That seems a little harsh. Takahashi was untouchable, but I think Johnny could have easily been in the hunt for silver or bronze.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2006
ITA, Johnny could have easily beaten Lysacek here, no problem. Lysacek's LP was a hot mess. I also think the pretty massive fan base he has in Asia might have helped. The judges would have been inspired by the screams to up his scores a bit. Bronze easy, possibly silver. ETA: ok after watching both of Jeff's skates I'd say silver easy.
The scoring was clearly inflated here, but as long as everyone gets inflation I don't care so much. I definitely think Takahashi deserved to win (he's one of my fave skaters so like I'd say anything else, lol) but I do believe his GOE marks were a bit more inflated than those of other skaters.
I'm just glad that if someone is going to get outrageous PCS marks that it's someone with some artistry and choreography to their skating. Marks like what he got here are a lot more irritating when they're for Plushenko or Joubert.
I'm also really happy for Jeff
even though Lysacek's before mentioned hot mess helped him out big time.
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Had Johnny Weir gone to this competition, he could easily have won silver. But he was smart to stay away and keep his focus on the big dance in March.
I am not in the least surprised that Takahashi won so easily. Takahashi's last competition was Nationals at the end of December. He had 6 weeks of rest, and only a short trip from Japan to Korea. 4CC was a showcase competition for him, and a great tightener for Worlds.
Evan was a fool to go to 4CC. He has lost 3 competitions to Takahashi this season and now heads to Worlds after skating the worst FS of the year, even losing to Buttle, who didn't have a great FS either.
I am not in the least surprised that Takahashi won so easily. Takahashi's last competition was Nationals at the end of December. He had 6 weeks of rest, and only a short trip from Japan to Korea. 4CC was a showcase competition for him, and a great tightener for Worlds.
Evan was a fool to go to 4CC. He has lost 3 competitions to Takahashi this season and now heads to Worlds after skating the worst FS of the year, even losing to Buttle, who didn't have a great FS either.
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