Michael Weiss

[RIskatingfan]

And the "he's too arrogant" card is getting kinda tired. Weir, Plushy and Jubert ain't exactly demure wall flowers in that department either.

Not top skater is, really. No top athlete. It's part of the psychological factor - they need the confidence, it's part of motivates them. If they don't feel they are the best in the World, how can they make other believe it?

There is a big difference between arrogance and self-confidence. Maybe Weiss has crossed that blurry line once in awhile, but I think modesty and being humble is something very overrated by fans of sport in general.

 

[Jaana]

As already mentioned here, also I believe Michael Weiss as well as any other skater earning her/his place in Worlds and Olympics as long as that skater is up enough in US Nationals results. It is for the younger skaters to outskate them and not the older skaters just to give up their place for the younger ones.

About the choreography of Weiss´ 2003-2004 programs, as far as I remember our commentators had favourable words about them. I would like though see him also trying out other choreographers.

When Scott and Roz turned pro in 84, there was no SOI. Isn't it time we stoped giving these excuses. If Steven Cousins can find a job, anybody can.

LOL, that is a bit harsh about Steven Cousins... Well, I have to add into this matter though that he would not have found that job without Scott Hamilton´s friendship, would he?

 

[euterpe]

After Weiss won World bronze in '99 and '00, Eldredge returned to the 2001 US Championships. There were only two US Men's spots for 2001 Worlds, and Weiss finished 4th at the US Championships and didn't make the World team. Eldredge and Goebel finished 3rd and 4th, respectively. Weiss made the 2002 World team by the skin of his teeth, and finished 7th at the Olympics and 6th at Worlds. Weiss' best placement since then was 5th in 2003.

It's ridiculous to compare Weiss vs. Eldredge to Kwan vs. Fleming. Kwan and Fleming were from completely different eras, as were Hamill and Lynn. Weiss and Eldredge, OTOH, were from the same era. Eldredge was a 6-time US champion (1990, 1991, 1995, 1997 [Weiss was 2nd], 1998 [Weiss was 2nd], 2002 [Weiss was 3rd]); Weiss was US Champion in 1999, 2000 and 2003. Eldredge was a World Champion (1996) and 6-time World medalist (Bronze, 1991, 2001; Silver 1995, 1997 [Weiss was 7th], 1998 [Weiss was 6th]). The fact is when Weiss competed against Eldredge, Eldredge ALWAYS came out on top.

 

[berthes ghost]

It's ridiculous to compare Weiss vs. Eldredge to Kwan vs. Fleming. Kwan and Fleming were from completely different eras, as were Hamill and Lynn. Weiss and Eldredge, OTOH, were from the same era.

It is rediculous to compare Kwan to Fleming, which is why I did it, to exagerate the point. People can eat all the sourgrapes they want; "Maria only won because Kwan had the flu and Irina wasn't allowed to compete" blah, blah blah, but it doesn't change facts. People won fair and square.

Hamil and Lynn were NOT from completely different eras. They competed against each other numerous times. (1971N JL 1st/DH 5th, 1972 N JL 1st/DH 4th W JL 3rd/DH 7th, 1973 N JL 1st/DH 2nd W JL 2nd/DH 4th) Lynn was only 3 years older than Hamil. Eldridge is 5 years older than Weiss. If Lynn had comeback in 75 after an absence, she may have regained her title like Eldridge did. The fact is when Hamil competed against Lynn, Lynn ALWAYS came out on top.

Hamil is very honest. She has spoken at lenght about how intimidated she was to compete in Lynn and Fleming's shaddow. She even said that she developed a different style because she knew that she couldn't compare to them.

 

[euterpe]

In 1971, Hamill was 14, an inexperienced skater competing against 17YO Lynn, who was already a veteran of 3 World competitions. Of course Hamill was intimidated, and continued to be until she reached her own potential. But there's no way to know if Lynn would have been competitive with Hamill after 1973. In 1974, at 17, Hamill won silver on her third try at Worlds, where it took Lynn 5 tries to reach the World podium because of her poor placement in the school figures portion of the competition. Hamill subsequently won World silver in 1975 and the OGM and the World Championship in 1976. The plain fact is Hamill was stronger in school figures than Lynn.

Weiss was 17 when he won World Juniors in 1994, and 20 when he won silver at the US Championships behind Eldredge in 1997; Eldredge was 25. There may have been a greater age difference than that between Hamill and Lynn, but Weiss was not exactly a young kid in comparison to Eldredge, and their careers overlapped over a longer period than Hamill's and Lynn's.

Once Eldredge was completely out of the picture, Weiss did not automatically slip into Eldredge's 'shoes' as Dorothy did Janet's, winning the US Championship in 1974, 1975 and 1976. Weiss won the 2003 US Championship after finishing 4th in the SP, but the FS of that competition was an all-around splatfest, one of the worst in US history. Weiss won because he was literally the last man standing. In 2004, Weiss again stood in 4th place after the SP, and lost to Weir, who skated brilliantly in both segments of the competition.

 

[dr.frog]

Weiss won the 2003 US Championship after finishing 4th in the SP, but the FS of that competition was an all-around splatfest, one of the worst in US history. Weiss won because he was literally the last man standing.

I'm not sure where you got that idea from. Weiss fell in his program in Dallas, too (on an unsuccessful quad lutz attempt). And rather than being an all-around splatfest, out of the entire field it was really only Weiss, Weir, Goebel, and Savoie who had meltdowns. There were a number of other skaters who gave their personal best performances up to that time -- notably Ryan Jahnke and Parker Pennington -- and the standard of skating in the earlier groups was very high. Many good triple axels landed, and even a clean quad from the first skater in the event!

 

[Tonichelle]

When Scott and Roz turned pro in 84, there was no SOI. Isn't it time we stoped giving these excuses. If Steven Cousins can find a job, anybody can.

yes but Steven is good friends with the guy who runs SOI LOL

Then again Scott's old coach is now Mike's coach... but I dunno it'd be tough...

And the "he's too arrogant" card is getting kinda tired. Weir, Plushy and Jubert ain't exactly demure wall flowers in that department either.

Oh how many times have I used that argument and no one has even paid attention longer than to say "that's different" UGH


Mike Weiss for Gold in 2006!!! (and for that matter 2005!!!!)

 

[euterpe]

Dr. Frog: You have to remember that on TV, we got to see only the final group, and of those, 4 fell (Weir, Weiss, Goebel, Savoie), and three of those were top-name skaters. When 4 of the top 6 fall, what remains in memory is a splatfest. Agreed, Jahnke had a brilliant FS, but as he was 6th after the SP, he was not in a position to win the US championship. Scott Smith had a good FS too, but moved up only one spot to 4th after his FS.

I think both Weiss and Goebel were held up to some extent at the 2003 US Championship. Here were the rankings after the SP

0.5 Goebel
1.0 Weir
1.5 Savoie
2.0 Weiss
2.5 Smith
3.0 Jahnke

If Jahnke had been placed first instead of Weiss, then Goebel would have won:

3.5 Goebel
4.0 Jahnke
4.0 Weiss
6.5 Smith

If Jahnke had been placed first, Smith second, Weiss third and Goebel fourth:

4.0 Jahnke
4.5 Smith
5.0 Weiss
5.5 Goebel

But you KNOW that would never have happened!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

What is pro skating? It's exactly what it always was, or I should say, exactly what it was before Tonya took skating judging into her own hands.

When Scott and Roz turned pro in 84, there was no SOI. Isn't it time we stoped giving these excuses. If Steven Cousins can find a job, anybody can.


Obviously it's about lifestyle choices. If Kwan and Co want to stay eligable, that's their perogative.

If Pro skating hasn't changed and it is more than SOI, why aren't more skaters turning Pro? Why single out one skater? And yes, giving up eligible skating status is a life choice. I agree. But what is Eligible skating other than a skater accepts the rules of the USFSA. The Russian Federation has no such restrictions.

Joe

 

[dizzydi]

Why doesn't Michael Weiss retire from eligible skating?

I would assume the reason is that he wants to continue eligibile competition. As others have stated, Michael is often among the top skaters at various competitions.

Something is wrong with the attitude that if you aren't #1, you have nothing to offer. The simple fact is that the gold medal winning skater at any given competition is not the best skater on the planet but rather (in the judges' opinion) had the best skate at that particular competition.

Michael should stop eligible skating when he is ready to do so, just as other skaters have done.

Dizzy

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yes, Weiss won two World bronze medals, in '99 and '00. But those were the years Todd Eldredge did not skate in the US Championships and did not go to Worlds.
.

In 2002 Sarah Hughes won Oly gold and everyone was skating that year. What exactly are you saying about MW?

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There is a big difference between arrogance and self-confidence. Maybe Weiss has crossed that blurry line once in awhile, but I think modesty and being humble is something very overrated by fans of sport in general.

Your comments are interesting. I've seen or read about MW quite differently. He is a happy husband. He is a happy father. He loves skating. He applauds the skaterrs who win over him, He does charity work.

I f I am missing the arrogance, can you cite an example or two? I would most appreciate it.

Joe

 

[RIskatingfan]

Eligible skating is not skate while accepting the rules of the USFSA, is accepting the rules of the ISU. All skating federations have restrictions for pro/ eligible skaters, it's not only the American. Recently, B/S and Yagudin lost eligibility by skating in pro events, not sanctioned by the ISU. That is what means to turn pro, to stop skating in ISU sanctioned events.

There aren't as many (known) names turning pro now because in the past professionals won tons of money in the pro world and today they win more if they remain eligible. Besides, there are so many more eligible events than pro. For a skater who wants to work, there is more possibilities to work by remaining eligible.

Reasons why a skater should turn pro? Plenty of them. Preferring to spend their time touring and performing instead of dealing with the pressure of competitions, more time to dedicate to other projects in their lives (an eligible skater who wants to be successful needs to be fully commited), injuries that may affect parts of the skating necessary to compete but that still allow the skaters to skate and perform in the pro world... and I think something that is the essence of the pro world - not having to follow rules to build their programs. If there wasn't a pro world we would never see Kurt's Nyah.

 

[RIskatingfan]

Your comments are interesting. I've seen or read about MW quite differently. He is a happy husband. He is a happy father. He loves skating. He applauds the skaterrs who win over him, He does charity work.

I f I am missing the arrogance, can you cite an example or two? I would most appreciate it.

Joe

If that is how you read Michael Weiss' interviews then I don't see why you say you read them differently than me because I happen to agree with every word you wrote about Weiss. Perhaps you should ask your question to someone who doesn't like him and thinks he constantly puts his foot in his mouth and is arrogant? There should be no problem to find such kind of poster considering how unpopular Michael Weiss is and how it is kind of "in" to take digs at him. I, for one, am pleased to see a thread about Michael Weiss where we can actually read positive things about him.

 

[Tonichelle]

If there wasn't a pro world we would never see Kurt's Nyah.

Amen and amen! (can I use that as a quotation in my siggy? please??)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

RI - From what you wrote there is no difference between 'Pro' and 'Eligible' skating except for the rules of the ISU. It is also apparent that 'Eligible' skaters earn more money than 'Pro' skaters. So the question arises, why give up money and medals, too for a low level show business touring company? If you have ever toured with a show and by bus, the first year is exciting; the second year is more like been there done that; the third year you want out. Kurt and Scott are business men now as is Katerina. They are not about to retire from that. There are few openings in that area.

Neither Todd nor Yags wanted to give up 'eligible' but were forced to for different reasons. Yags is trying to break into the lucrative coaching field. I think Todd will give up the stardust in a couple of years. Will he coach? He may not have desire or talent for that area anymore than designing costumes.

And what has happened to Ilia Kulic? A skater who vastly improved when he got into Kurt's show. He's not there anymore?

I would let Irina, Michelle, Amber, Elena L, Fumie, Klimkin, Restancourt, Dmabier, and MICHAEL make their own life decisions. They really don't need our help. And if that is ARROGANCE, than so be it.

Joe

 

[RIskatingfan]

Tonichelle, you want to use a quote from ME in your siggy? How flattering LOL! Go ahead LOL!

RI - From what you wrote there is no difference between 'Pro' and 'Eligible' skating except for the rules of the ISU. It is also apparent that 'Eligible' skaters earn more money than 'Pro' skaters. So the question arises, why give up money and medals, too for a low level show business touring company? If you have ever toured with a show and by bus, the first year is exciting; the second year is more like been there done that; the third year you want out. Kurt and Scott are business men now as is Katerina. They are not about to retire from that. There are few openings in that area.

There is no difference? What difference do you want to find? It's eligible skating and professional skating. You weren't expecting them to be different as in skating to boxe, did you? Considering the rules is a great deal in what makes a sport, I would say there IS a substantial difference LOL

As for your other musings, I made some suggestions in my above post that can work as answers. Perhaps I should add that athletes careers don't last forever. And if in skating there is the fortunate chance of make the transition from an athlete to a performer and keep doing what they love to do - skate - I think it's only a plus to the world of skating, skaters and fans.

Neither Todd nor Yags wanted to give up 'eligible' but were forced to for different reasons. Yags is trying to break into the lucrative coaching field. I think Todd will give up the stardust in a couple of years. Will he coach? He may not have desire or talent for that area anymore than designing costumes.

Yagudin gave up eligibility because he has a serious injury, not because he wanted to rush to be a coach LOL It wouldn't be very smart of a skater of his caliber to give up eligible skating because he wanted to coach, something that he can do for the next decades. As for Todd, he made a spectacular transition to pro and the audiences seem to love him. I sure see him in SOI for many, many years. As for Kulik, he doesn't seem to be skating much these days, probably wants to dedicate more time to his family.

BTW, still about Michael Weiss and the arrogance matter I found a thread where some posters accuse Weiss of being arrogant... maybe they will have some answers for your question, maybe not It's a poll from the other forum...

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5782

 

[euterpe]

Joesitz: "In 2002 Sarah Hughes won Oly gold and everyone was skating that year. What exactly are you saying about MW?

Everyone keeps pointing to the fact that Weiss won World bronze in 1999 and 2000. But those were the years when a better skater than Weiss -- Eldredge -- did not compete at US Nationals and Worlds.

Eldredge won US Nationals gold to Weiss's silver in 1997 and 1998, and Eldredge won World silver in both of those years while Weiss's best placement was 6th in 1998. In 1999 and 2000, Eldredge took a holiday from eligible skating, and in his absence, Weiss won two National Championships and two World bronze medals. When Eldredge returned to eligible competition in 2001, Goebel, armed with a quad, won US Nationals gold, Eldredge won silver, and Weiss was 4th and failed to make the World team. Eldredge went on to win the 2001 World bronze medal, and Goebel finished 4th.

What I am saying is that Weiss benefitted from Eldredge's absence when he won the '99 and '00 US Nationals and World bronze medals. During their years competing against one another, Weiss never beat Eldredge in any US Nationals, World or Olympic Championship, and not even in the Grand Prix. If Eldredge had competed, Weiss would have finished 2nd at Nationals and 4th at Worlds.

I have no idea what Sarah Hughes has to do with anything in relation to Michael Weiss.

 

[RIskatingfan]

What I am saying is that Weiss benefitted from Eldredge's absence when he won the '99 and '00 US Nationals and World bronze medals. During their years competing against one another, Weiss never beat Eldredge in any US Nationals, World or Olympic Championship, and not even in the Grand Prix. If Eldredge had competed, Weiss would have finished 2nd at Nationals and 4th at Worlds.

I have no idea what Sarah Hughes has to do with anything in relation to Michael Weiss.

The point is, it doesn't matter if Eldredge competed or not. Weiss did well. You don't know what would happen if Eldredge was there, maybe Weiss would win the same LOL! You can't take the value of a skater's achievements by looking at what another skater did. Maybe Todd needed a rest and if he had competed he would have two bad seasons. Who knows.

I can imagine what people would say if Kwan and Slutskaya didn't skate in the SLC. Everyone would be saying Sarah Hughes only won because they didn't compete. Guess what? They were all there and even though they were probably far better skaters, Sarah Hughes still won. Same thing with Weiss and Eldredge. You may think Eldredge is better, but that doesn't mean Weiss wouldn't be able to beat him in 1999 and 2000. We just can't guess because he didn't compete.

 

[soogar]

Eldredge was also held up against Mikey in Nationals as well. I think it was '97 or one of those years when Mikey skated a spectacular long program with a slightly two footed quad and was placed 2nd to Todd despite the fact that everyone thought Mikey should have won.

Also in 2002, I believe Goebel made the comment that the judges put Eldredge in first at Nationals because they wanted him to go into the Olympics with confidence (that didn't work). Goebel had definitely said that international judges would have scored him differently because he had the big jumps.

Anyway, my point is it that there were lots of times that Todd was held up because he was the champion and unfortunately, this occurred during the years that Mikey was skating very well at Nationals.