Michelle - Good News/Bad News
- Thread starter hrmsk8ngnutt
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- Dec 29, 2004
gezando said:
That was just too funny... Having said that, I continue to be amused about how "Kwan Nation" continues to come under fire for expressing dismay at those questioning her injury while saying that Kwan fans are a looney group who react poorly to any slight comment regarding our "Kween." To this I disagree. Not because I'm an uber but because I think its hogwash... As stated by an earlier poster, no one questioned Irina's illness, Sasha's back trouble or Diva's foot injury. We all wished them well and looked forward to their healthy selves returning to the ice. There's no real thrill of victory if the top contenders are barely holding it together because of health related issues... But Kwan gets injured and the oh my! The drama begins...
Again, I wish Kwan & Sasha quick recoveries, if for no other reason that we can get back to discussing skating vs. who's got the wackiest fan base (or in RedDog's case ~ the wackiest non-fan fan base...
)
Check out what I respond to. OK!. Yeah, I posted on all kind boards and threads, but I don't say "I don't care XXXX skater" then go on endless time to respond most of posts regarding to this skater. So there.....I said before, then again, thought ppl are different, and I can't understand the logic thinking of some....I see this to "COUNT-KWANAICS ATTACK" long before, since someone tunned in Kwan's injury was 'fake'.....when Cohen announce injury I diddn't remember many of Kwanniacs raise/hint the suspect of injury on contrary many wished her quick recovery. What says this? Kwaniacs put more trustee to human natural?millie said:
They can express their opinion if they want to- I have no issue with that. But "Kwan Nation" is coming under fire I believe because of the sheer numbers in which they swoop in when someone else makes their point. It's all about numbers, that's all. Say one non-positive thing about Kwan? THE KWANATICS ATTACK!
It will ALWAYS be an issue here...trust meSo who does have the wackiest fanbase? We'll find out after the Olympics.
mzheng- people WERE (are?) questioning Cohen's "injury" as well. The focus I believe was on both Cohen and Kwan, not just Kwan. But Kwan got "injured" before Cohen did, however. I think that's where this illusion comes from.
I have no reason to think they'd be lying, though.
I have no reason to think they'd be lying, though.
Yeah, I noticed some, but not majority from Kwaniacs (that's what I tried to say), even last year's her back injury early in the season diddn't raise so many question mark from 'Kwaniacs'. Like you said Cohen's injury were questioned this time as well by some, but I noticed most from the same who questioned MK at first then felt obligate to question Cohen (imo)......Red Dog said:
Oh, on a side notes. No matter what ppl talked bout how MKF is "Kwaniacs" or "Kwan Nation", but I remember clearly when Irina's mom sick and Irina sit out 2003 worlds, there were threads there send greeting card to Irina. And late when Irina was ill, they send card to her again. IIRC, there might be some kind fund raise at the the time in MKF try to help out.....tell me you see the same 'good will' actions in other skater specific boards. I barely visit other skater's forumn except occationally SashaFans.
Red Dog
I do understand the excitement of new faces being successful. However it is in no way unique - in fact to me it is natural and expected. No matter how good a champion is there will always be "the next big thing" there will always be someone younger, stronger, faster, more beautiful on their heals - to replace them. It is the way of nature. When your very young it seems special for the NEW to dethrone the OLD but as you mature you come to realize that this is the natural order of things - it is inevitable and really not all that remarkable. Now for a champion to defy nature and to time and again - beyond all odds and reasonable expectations fend off the natural dethroning - that's PRICELESS. It to me is special and remarkable and exceptional - that makes HISTORY, and I am in awe of those who accomplish such things.
I do understand the excitement of new faces being successful. However it is in no way unique - in fact to me it is natural and expected. No matter how good a champion is there will always be "the next big thing" there will always be someone younger, stronger, faster, more beautiful on their heals - to replace them. It is the way of nature. When your very young it seems special for the NEW to dethrone the OLD but as you mature you come to realize that this is the natural order of things - it is inevitable and really not all that remarkable. Now for a champion to defy nature and to time and again - beyond all odds and reasonable expectations fend off the natural dethroning - that's PRICELESS. It to me is special and remarkable and exceptional - that makes HISTORY, and I am in awe of those who accomplish such things.
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- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
Red Dog said:They can express their opinion if they want to- I have no issue with that. But "Kwan Nation" is coming under fire I believe because of the sheer numbers in which they swoop in when someone else makes their point. It's all about numbers, that's all. Say one non-positive thing about Kwan? THE KWANATICS ATTACK!
So who does have the wackiest fanbase? We'll find out after the Olympics.
We are a nation of "swoopers" I will give you that... Esp. since I swoop with the best of them, but wouldn't you agree that its one thing to discuss a skater's ability to win/shine/stay upright is one thing & accusing said skater and I stress ANY skater of lying re: injury another? Am I looking for logic where there is none?
Definately the non-fan base, tough but wacky!!! And by the way, happy belated birthday!:agree:
Red Dog said:
Actually Fumie was injured before Kwan and Cohen, and no one said she was lying about her injury.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10431&highlight=fumie+groin+injury
IMO it is not likely an illusion. but more likely a delusion
BTW, people who have the gut reaction that Kwan is malingering are not only believing that she is lying, but in order for their possible delusion to work they have to believe that her orthopod Dr. Yu is either incompetent or unethical. In order for their possible delusion to work they also have to believe that usfsa is either conspiring with Kwan, and Yu, or usfsa is totally incompetent.
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Now, I hardly believe that being a Kwaniac automatically makes you a good person (or, I suppose, a bad one for that matter), which I feel is what you're implying. It's about the type of people that make up that community, and they just happen to be fans of X-skater. Also- people at SashaFans tend to be mostly young girls. MKF I bet has a more middle-aged population (with both young and old filling in the ranks as well). I think that might also have something to do with it.
I know it's going to happen SOMETIME- duh. But, I'm not trying to say it's special- that's just the way I happen to, umm, "like it" I guess (for lack of a better word). Now, yes, I'm with you that it's incredible that Kwan has stayed on top so long. But I just don't feel the SENTIMENT that you guys seem to feel. As a non-fan, I can respect that, but I can't "feel" it. That's the difference between us. I KNOW I'm not the only one that thinks this way. It's only the hard-core skating fans and the Kwan fans, IMO, that feel such emotional attachment to her feat. Yes, it's incredible, but IMO it's not breathtaking...you get the drift?
Kwanford Wife- To each his own. But thanks :agree:
Yes, it's different to question one's honesty, but once again the fan MUST realize it's just an opinion. It's perfectly justifiable to challenge their point but not to gang up on them. JMO
People don't just "come up" with conspiracies (OK, maybe that's a far-fetched statement
). But anyway, what about the first time Kwan "backed off"? Don't think anyone accused her of anything. It's the fact that Kwan has pulled out of the GP (for whatever reason) three times in a row (four times if you count 2002) that is making certain people suspicious. That's all...Fumie didn't make it a habit. But Kwan did, and that's what got people thinking. JMO.People are free to come up with any delusion and conspiracy theories, like mentioned before they are entitled to their gut reaction. Just people who think AIDS is a government conspiracy use reasoning that seem completely sane to themRed Dog said:People don't just "come up" with conspiracies (OK, maybe that's a far-fetched statement
Kwan did not participate in the GP in the last couple of seasons, but she did not lie either. Besides the possible delusions from some people involve not just Kwan but Dr. Yu and the usfsa. Just because
Fumie had previous injuries and pulled out of some GP competitions too.
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I'm not going to accuse her of lying, but remember that post-Campbell's interview in 2004? She insinuated that she was going to be at SA 04, then pulled out afterwards. Some MK fans cited an "injury" as the cause (did we ever get official reason from Camp Kwan?). I think this is where some of the theories come from.
I watched the same interview, and tit was not my interpretation that she was making a committment to SA. Why should camp Kwan give an offical explanation, she did not officially made a committment.Red Dog said:
People who love to spin conspircy theories, or love to work up possible delusions will spin anything into a conspiracy theory, so what else is new.
I'd have to re-watch that interview, but I'm more than sure that when Peter (or whoever interviewed her?) said something like "See you at SA" or whatever, she said something like "Yeah". So yes, she didn't explicitly state that she'd be there but she gave a "half-impression" that she would. Could she have said right then and there that she wasn't going to be there, if she knew already? :think: :scratch:
BTW, she talked about her boot problem in the interview, and IMO skaters do not underestimate boot problems, since boot problems sidelined Goebel for an entire season.Red Dog said:
If she did not explicitly state that she'd be there, then when people assume that she will be there are just ASSuming. You can say that she is unable to make up her mind sooner, but how do people use her seeming undecisiveness and work up to a delusion that she is lying about pain, and her MD is either incompetent or unethical, and usfsa is either incompetent or unethical??
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With all this discussion about skaters getting injured and fans passing thier opinions on it, whose to say who is right or wrong! Be serious guys, how do we know for sure if either one of them injured. We can only go by the reports that are seeping out about the skaters. We do not know what goes on in the doctor's office, we have not seem her medicals reports or exrays! If a fan says that they think she is faking her injury, that's the fans opinion!If a fan says that they think is is truly injured, that's their opinion! Unless we are there in person when they are talking to their doctor, its all spectulation. Nobody is right or nobody is wrong.
If fans says they do not believe that she is injured, that's the fans opinion, just as much as the fan who believes, its just opinions. In reality, nobody knows for sure, just spectulation.
If fans says they do not believe that she is injured, that's the fans opinion, just as much as the fan who believes, its just opinions. In reality, nobody knows for sure, just spectulation.
How could we not believe either one of them, unless evidence presents itself to suggest otherwise. I wonder about those who would just choose to think they're lying ... for what reason? It's an odd thing to me to suspect someone (anyone) of something ... for no other reason than just because.
Of course, anyone can say anything they wish to. But that might say more about them than the people they speak about.
Of course, anyone can say anything they wish to. But that might say more about them than the people they speak about.
I don't think it is alll speculation, it is either believe Dr. Yu and usfsa or not. Kwan's doctor's medical diagnosis of strained ligament was announced officially in the usfsa site. Since Dr. Yu examined Kwan, and took the responsibility to make a diagnosis and recommend treatment, and all of the above was announced in usfsa then it is as official as it can be. Posters are free to either believe what is announced at the usfsa official site or not. If they don't t believe Dr. Yu and usfsa then it is implied that they believe Dr. Yu and usfsa were either incompetent or unethical or both, now that is some convoluted conspiracy theory.millie said:
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