Moir: “We don’t care about what the 11 people (judges) think,”

[La Rhumba]

That's why I like coming to GS Forum. Not only Skating opinion, but a seminar on American variations on English grammar.

You would not believe how many American colloquialisms are used over here. Infact I predict we will be talking American in less than 2 decades. Though I agree the "could care less" is a daft one that is nonsensicle.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Not to spoil anyone's fun, but I was taking that in context with some of the other comments he made afterwards ,in which he was being pretty restrained. I think the meaning is because it's in their home , where they have overwhelming support and love in the building , in this case, he can care less about ...etc.,etc...as compared to other competitions..

But, party on...

 

[bramweld]

I never thought I would say this but; Scott should consider the I/K response, of late. If they're not pleased with their skate they simply keep quiet. It reflects badly on them when he makes comments like these. If he's not concerned about his own image he might at least consider Tessa. This is not to say i don't understand his frustration. The COP has changed ice dance, really making it more about technique and acrobatics and this will necessarily make it difficult for less athletically and technically gifted teams. But this is life. They need to decide whether they want to continue to stress themselves or simply move on. Life is too short to waste it on being bitter, which is what his comments sound likehwell:

 

[chuckm]

Well, kkonas said Moir hates to lose. I think we're just seeing just how much (and how true) that is.

Interesting fact: if they do lose, they won't be able to fall back on "Tessa's injured." And that would certainly change the psychology of these two rivals, wouldn't it?

If they do lose, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they admit after the fact that Tessa HAS been injured this season. Then their fans can claim D/W's win 'has to be marked with an asterisk, just like their win in 2011 was'.

Moir would say anything to spin a loss in V/M's favor.

Anyway, Scott, there may be 10,000 fans in the audience, but not all of them are fans of yours. Lots of Americans, Europeans and Asians are in that audience, too, and many of them don't like your truculent attitude. The Canadian fans are just louder than the others.

 

[leafygreens]

If they do lose, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they admit after the fact that Tessa HAS been injured this season. Then their fans can claim D/W's win 'has to be marked with an asterisk, just like their win in 2011 was'.

Moir would say anything to spin a loss in V/M's favor.

I dread this response too. Maybe D/W are in first because they are the best, not because V/M are injured. It's a given that skaters are in pain probably most of the time. That doesn't mean they are injured if other skaters are better.

I read that Sasha Cohen claims, in a recent interview, to have been injured in 2006 and that's why she couldn't win. Was she also injured every other nationals and every other worlds where she fell? Did the normal, everyday aches and pains suddenly morph into an injury because she was expected to win but didn't?

V/M have been slipping for at least a year now. That's a long time to skate through a legitimate injury. Tessa probably skated through worse pain than a muscle spasm, leading up to the Olympics, before she had her surgery. Why all of a sudden the injury excuse now, because they are not winning?

So V/M are not feeling their best. The reason someone gets second instead of first is usually because they are not feeling their best. That means another team was feeling their best, and therefore legitimately better on that day.

D/W have handled all of their skeptical second place finishes with dignity. Scott has won the biggest prize of all, and yet still can't handle it if a smaller competition is not gifted to them.

The way they skate, it seems like V/M don't care anymore. They don't skate with the same passion. Maybe it's indeed because Tessa is in pain everyday, in which case they should be pleased with even a 2nd place finish. Skating with an injury is not easy. It could be because they are not as motivated since they have already won World's/Olys. Maybe it's because D/W have surpassed them in difficulty. It slightly angers me when someone is not grateful, after the success they have already had. You can't win 'em all.

 

[Olympia]

If they do lose, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they admit after the fact that Tessa HAS been injured this season. Then their fans can claim D/W's win 'has to be marked with an asterisk, just like their win in 2011 was'.

Moir would say anything to spin a loss in V/M's favor.

Anyway, Scott, there may be 10,000 fans in the audience, but not all of them are fans of yours. Lots of Americans, Europeans and Asians are in that audience, too, and many of them don't like your truculent attitude. The Canadian fans are just louder than the others.

It's moments like this when one wishes that Kurt Browning still skated in Olympic-eligible competitions.

I don't necessarily think that saying something nice is being false and beauty-pageant-contestant. Some people are more comfortable being diplomatic or just keeping things to themselves. I don't look for excitement in their utterances; I look for it on the ice. Michelle Kwan was one of the least interesting interviewees I ever heard, except for Kristi Yamaguchi. I'd still rather see either of them skate than watch any diva I can think of, male or female.

"Could care less" is a lot more convincing when you hear its tone of voice. When said in with a mixture of world-weariness and snark, it is very effective at getting the point across. It's no more the opposite of "couldn't care less" than "fat chance" is the opposite of "slim chance." I don't know anything about its etymology, but I'm willing to guess that it was born somewhere near the urban haunts that gave rise to the word fugeddaboudit.

 

[Mathman]

Not to spoil anyone's fun, but I was taking that in context with some of the other comments he made afterwards ,in which he was being pretty restrained. I think the meaning is because it's in their home , where they have overwhelming support and love in the building , in this case, he can care less about ...etc.,etc...as compared to other competitions

?!!! I think you nailed it. :yes: I take back the mean things I said.

 

[Olympia]

Okay, that makes sense. I stand corrected as well.

(Let it be said also that even if I do sometimes get peeved with Scott, I love V/M's skating.)

 

[Serious Business]

?!!! I think you nailed it. :yes: I take back the mean things I said.

Don't! You nailed it the first time, Mathman. It's not that Moir is being rude, it is that what he said is blatantly and petulantly disingenuous. All the training he does, the careful calibration to every move, is designed to get the best marks out of those judges. If he really didn't care what the judges think, he'd skate his exhibition number. Why bother training the Yankee Polka pattern, which he disdains? Surya Bonaly doing a forbidden backflip, now that was a skater showing that she didn't care what the judges think. This is the equivalent of a child stomping his feet and going, "well, I didn't want dessert anyway!", after begging for it and not getting it.

People, please try to remember: just because someone is being impolitic and brash doesn't mean they're being honest. It is perfectly possible for people to lie while being tactless and nasty.

 

[aftertherain]

Don't! You nailed it the first time, Mathman. It's not that Moir is being rude, it is that what he said is blatantly and petulantly disingenuous. All the training he does, the careful calibration to every move, is designed to get the best marks out of those judges. If he really didn't care what the judges think, he'd skate his exhibition number. Why bother training the Yankee Polka pattern, which he disdains? Surya Bonaly doing a forbidden backflip, now that was a skater showing that she didn't care what the judges think. This is the equivalent of a child stomping his feet and going, "well, I didn't want dessert anyway!", after begging for it and not getting it.

People, please try to remember: just because someone is being impolitic and brash doesn't mean they're being honest. It is perfectly possible for people to lie while being tactless and nasty.

YES. THIS.

I read that Sasha Cohen claims, in a recent interview, to have been injured in 2006 and that's why she couldn't win. Was she also injured every other nationals and every other worlds where she fell? Did the normal, everyday aches and pains suddenly morph into an injury because she was expected to win but didn't?

D/W have handled all of their skeptical second place finishes with dignity. Scott has won the biggest prize of all, and yet still can't handle it if a smaller competition is not gifted to them.

Sasha actually was injured at the 2006 Olympics. There were reports/video clips of her rubbing her leg/groin during practices before the short and long programs . I can't speak for the other competitions where she fell (I think those were more attributed to mental strength), but she was definitely injured at the 2006 Olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaZ6uGw8xkg

--------

Part of the reason why I like D/W more is because they handle things with such grace. They have such quiet, yet strong determination. Sure, they might give Miss America answers, but at least they channel all that anger and frustration out on the ice into their training and ultimately in competitions--so in a way, they're telling the truth. You know that they're giving it their all.

It's quite admirable because you can see how much they give in their programs (i.e. at the end of their FD at 4CC, Charlie was too out-of-breath to get up immediately)-- so you know that they're not just all talk and little action. Ain't no Miss America rehearsed-pageantry there.

Plus, I'm sure all Miss America contestants are divas behind the scenes.

 

[leafygreens]

It's just funny because there was not talk of her being injured especially after she won the SP. Then before the LP it was "doubt" in her eyes, not an injury. Then after she fell in LP it was just "Sasha being Sasha." Then Sasha said that she was just tired at Worlds and that's why she lost there. No word of a serious injury that would cause you to lose the Olympics until years later. There was talk in 2010 about her walking around with ice bags on her legs and popping Aleve and she claimed it was all normal aches and pains.

Anyways the point is that unless there is a huge history or doctor's note or surgery, how do you know it's a bad injury and not just sour grapes. Athletes compete and win gold with injuries all the time (look at the gymnasts). That's what I think Scott is doing. Laying the groundwork.

 

[aftertherain]

It's just funny because there was not talk of her being injured especially after she won the SP. Then before the LP it was "doubt" in her eyes, not an injury. Then after she fell in LP it was just "Sasha being Sasha." Then Sasha said that she was just tired at Worlds and that's why she lost there. No word of a serious injury that would cause you to lose the Olympics until years later. There was talk in 2010 about her walking around with ice bags on her legs and popping Aleve and she claimed it was all normal aches and pains.

They probably didn't want to ruin the primetime coverage. But the video I provided had Dick Button and his fellow commentators clearly speculating whether she was just sore or if it was really an injury. It really seemed like they really didn't want to say she was injured because that would have surely killed the dream, especially after the excellent SP and given the way she usually performed long programs in her career.

 

[ForeverFish]

It's just funny because there was not talk of her being injured especially after she won the SP. Then before the LP it was "doubt" in her eyes, not an injury. Then after she fell in LP it was just "Sasha being Sasha." Then Sasha said that she was just tired at Worlds and that's why she lost there. No word of a serious injury that would cause you to lose the Olympics until years later. There was talk in 2010 about her walking around with ice bags on her legs and popping Aleve and she claimed it was all normal aches and pains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh3iW4I39DI

"There's that tape under her tights. Her left leg taped because of a groin injury."

Yep, it was mentioned.

 

[leafygreens]

V/M's injury was also mentioned (at 4CC's). Was it bad enough for them to lose the competition? Or just sour grapes? We will never know, with them or with Sasha. Tape (or muscle cramp) isn't exactly a surgery. Oksana had her leg sliced open the day prior and still won an Olympics. If you are good enough then you can work through something minor and win.

 

[aftertherain]

V/M's injury was also mentioned. Was it bad enough for them to lose the competition? Or just sour grapes? We will never know, with them or with Sasha. Tape isn't exactly a surgery. Oksana had her leg sliced open the day prior and still won an Olympics.

It's not really fair to compare skaters and their injuries though. It's like of like your parents going, "Well, she got an A and she was sick in bed so she had less time to study, just because you had the sniffles doesn't mean you shouldn't have scored higher" ... even though you're in different classes.

But, like you said, we'll never know.

 

[Jammers]

V/M's injury was also mentioned (at 4CC's). Was it bad enough for them to lose the competition? Or just sour grapes? We will never know, with them or with Sasha. Tape (or muscle cramp) isn't exactly a surgery. Oksana had her leg sliced open the day prior and still won an Olympics. If you are good enough then you can work through something minor and win.

I think Oksana also had a broken rib so it wasn't something minor.

 

[leafygreens]

Exactly, Oksana's injury wasn't minor, and she still won. Heck, look at what happened to Nancy. No excuses there either. She got silver but physically couldn't have performed much better than that.

 

[ForeverFish]

It's not really fair to compare skaters and their injuries though. It's like of like your parents going, "Well, she got an A and she was sick in bed so she had less time to study, just because you had the sniffles doesn't mean you shouldn't have scored higher" ... even though you're in different classes.

But, like you said, we'll never know.

Exactly. And a skater doesn't even have to be injured to have a hard time. Yuzuru Hanyu, for example, has pretty bad asthma that usually prevents him from running through a clean FS. I don't think he'll ever need to get surgery to correct it, but classifying injuries as major and minor can turn into a subjective argument.

 

[chuckm]

AFAIK, there IS no surgery for asthma, so no easy fix. Most adults with asthma I have known take medication for it. With children and teens, there may be some hope of outgrowing asthma. In sports there is also what's known as exercise-induced asthma and it persists as long as the sports activity continues.

 

[lavender]

Don't! You nailed it the first time, Mathman. It's not that Moir is being rude, it is that what he said is blatantly and petulantly disingenuous. All the training he does, the careful calibration to every move, is designed to get the best marks out of those judges. If he really didn't care what the judges think, he'd skate his exhibition number. Why bother training the Yankee Polka pattern, which he disdains? Surya Bonaly doing a forbidden backflip, now that was a skater showing that she didn't care what the judges think. This is the equivalent of a child stomping his feet and going, "well, I didn't want dessert anyway!", after begging for it and not getting it.

People, please try to remember: just because someone is being impolitic and brash doesn't mean they're being honest. It is perfectly possible for people to lie while being tactless and nasty.

That was on point.