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- Apr 23, 2018
A boy from the US jumps and wow! he is an artist! The more things change, the more they stay the same...
Opinion: The brevity of skating careers
- Thread starter icewhite
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- Jan 31, 2019
I also didn't see Kolyada prior to 2018, but the years between 2018 and retirement to me offers a clear testimony in favor of skaters finishing career earlier rather than later. Kolyada was plagued by illness, stress and extremely traumatic nightmares according to his interviews. Whenever he was asked anything, he was snide and barely said a word (it was a running gag on Russian TV). But now he has finally left the sport, and he is commenting on 1TV, my jaw dropped how much he has changed without that pressure of competition. He has a soft, old intelligentsia voice. He talks easily. He smiles. He has a kind word for every skater. He sounds...happy. Like, genuinely happy. Sure, Nureyev program was great, but was it worth torturing the guy for the good of the country and world's entertainment for 4 years? The commentary on 1TV is now a joy to listen too, sans two toxic old farts they let to spew their poison there before. Grishin might live longer too, lol, without having to mediate all the time.
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- Jan 31, 2019
What you do in terms of your fitness has nothing to do with degree of artistic merit as a skater aged as reflected by the PCS score. Katarina Witt skated back when the scoring system was so corrupt and invalid they had to change it to at least try to be objective.Well, I'd planned to transport my mummified body to the rink this morning and skate, but I guess I should crawl back into my sarcophagus instead
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The PCS scores increase as the skater continues to gain rep is cumulative of a few factors. They are more comfortable with a big audience and pressure of high stakes competitions. People, including judges, get used to their stylings or acquire loyalty points on a specific athlete. But neither takes all that long. Usually, it's fast or never.
I mean, @eppen is Mozalev still accountant on ice? Or @el henry is Brown still the absolute pinnacle in artistic department? Did this perception of them changed since 2019 or 2014 or whatever, impacted by the length of their career? Assorted Hanyu fans, is Hanyu a better jumper than Malinin?
Lol. I know the answer.
Overall, as far as life goes, the overwhelming yet nebulous concern 'for the children', is a classic Internet ruse to disguise an attack on something/someone the poster can't go against honestly and directly, 'cause you know, moderators. If you are old enough to remember Kostner, you all should be old enough to know that too. But I just feel truthy today, because I am so tired of endless deluge of lies (points for getting that reference, lol). Probably still better than starting a thread entitled: Here Ye, Here Ye, A Rogue Panel in Kazan' Renders Fair Judgment at Figure Skating Competition. The World Speechless. Bets on How Long Integrity Lasts Accepted.
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- Apr 23, 2018
And I didn't see much of Jason prior to 2018, but surely he is an exemplar of the opposite? And had Shoma given up as a has-been at his nadir (he had OSM, after all, had - it appeared - declined from there) he wouldn't have risen again to where he is now. Then there's Keegan Messing. And what should Patrick have done in 2015?
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- Apr 23, 2018
Certainly a much more beautiful, creative and inspiring one to watch. I've seen GIFT and RE_PRAY.
Now I did say that Yuzuru should not be a part of this conversation because he's an outlier, pure lightning in a bottle, but you seem to want to drag him in. And while Beijing was traumatic, we don't deny it, Yuzuru came out of it with way more new fans (the Chinese online groups number in the millions now) and people who wanted to watch fs - because they were inspired by him and his skating - than the rest of the skaters put together, including all the gold medallists. And he has done more for the sport's profile, popularity and pockets than the rest of them all told (possibly excluding the Tutberidze soap opera) and not just in Japan.
"Efforts will lie, but will never be in vain." He has ended up in a place that those with short sharp careers can only dream of. And he is still skating because that is what he wants to do. If you want a revolving door of forgettable youngsters fine, go for it! Leave Yuzuru out of this because he is not the one the OP was talking about, he can't be because no one else is anything like him and we can't manufacture magic for the future.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I don't think that Katarina Witt was regarded as an exceptionally artistic skater (like, for instance Janet Lynn was). Witt's claim to fame was as an entertainer.
There were however, men from that era who set the standard for artistry, the most impressive being John Curry and Robin Cousins. In the modern era only Hanyu compares, IMHO.
There were however, men from that era who set the standard for artistry, the most impressive being John Curry and Robin Cousins. In the modern era only Hanyu compares, IMHO.
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- Feb 14, 2018
Also, when do people consider a skating career 'starting'?
Senior? Junior? Novice?
I would assume most casual fans only become aware of skaters when they reach the senior level, but more knowledgeable fans know skaters have been competing for years before the senior level.
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- Apr 23, 2018
I wish there were more film of earlier skaters available (I found a couple of really old clips on youtube a while back, I think I posted them?) There was also someone who did videos of the junior champions year by year and how their senior careers panned out.
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- Oct 20, 2017
Regardless of all his victories, he had 12 seasons as a senior, and 2 as a junior, plus a few years as a junior that he didn't go to junior worlds. That is a long career. I'm not an uber fan, but I enjoyed his skating and he gets all my respect. So he shouldn't be part of this discussion as he is in a league of his own. When another skater gets on the Disney channel, let me know.
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- Oct 20, 2017
I think it should be when they start competing internationally.
Example 24 year old Deniss Vasiljevs. 3 years novice, 3 years junior.. Last junior year overlapped into senior, this is his 9th senior year. !
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In the modern era, Patrick Chan compares.
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- Jun 21, 2003
In my opinion, Chan was most impressive for his blade skills. I could watch him all day just demonstrating edges and turns. This carried a different kind of aesthetic appeal, to me.
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Chan is more directly comparable to the names you stated: Cousins and Curry. They were all edge masters while also having the artistry and technical merit.
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- Apr 23, 2018
And bringing in the thread topic, he's another with a long career (2005-6 in the juniors to what, 2018?) I doubt anyone would argue that the sport, especially in Canada, would have been better served had he not come back after his 2015 hiatus. But maybe I'm wrong?
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- Feb 14, 2018
Ok. Are we also making a distinction between amateur and professional competition?
As an example, I looked at the wikipedia page for Michelle Kwan. She was in the Junior level in 1992. I believe her last amateur competition was Worlds in 2005, so that would be 13 years.
I went back to wikipedia to compare to Tara Lipinski, she first competed internationally in 1994. Her last amateur competition was 1998, only 4 years.
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- Jun 21, 2003
^ Kristi Yamaguchi would be an interesting case if we include professional competitions and tours. Her amateur career was only about 6 to 8 years in junior and senior competition in pairs and singles, then she went on do professional competitons, many of therm fairly serious, plus Stars on Ice for anothetr 13 years or so. (We won't count Dancing With The Stars and Dream Big, Little PIg. 
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Apples and Oranges and Peaches
Pro skating is a different animal versus amateur competitive career.
Also, 1980s -1990s (and prior to that as well) are also a very different animal as back then, there was money to be made as a pro skater. As a matter of fact, a lot of skaters didn't have very long amateur careers and went pros early.
I think the OP means recent, short amateur careers... for instance Zagitova or Pitkeev. Or even my son Joseph Phan to make sure that I am not accused of focusing on short careers from Eteri skaters
The shortest career right now : pairs skaters Nic Nadeau and Emma Proft (as a pair) only a year or so .. injuries+ making money in their case.
Pro skating is a different animal versus amateur competitive career.
Also, 1980s -1990s (and prior to that as well) are also a very different animal as back then, there was money to be made as a pro skater. As a matter of fact, a lot of skaters didn't have very long amateur careers and went pros early.
I think the OP means recent, short amateur careers... for instance Zagitova or Pitkeev. Or even my son Joseph Phan to make sure that I am not accused of focusing on short careers from Eteri skaters
The shortest career right now : pairs skaters Nic Nadeau and Emma Proft (as a pair) only a year or so .. injuries+ making money in their case.
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- Jun 21, 2003
For one, if Chan had not competed at the the 2018 Olympics we would have been denied seeing the all-time most powerful entry in the team event. Between Chan, Osmond, Duhamel & Radford and Virtue & Moir, they won 9 world champiobships over their careers.
Although ... there is also the Russian contingent in 2002, with 12 world championships among Yagudin+Plushenko, Slutskaya, Berezhnaya & Sikharudlidze and Lobacheva & Averbukh,
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There are now so much opinions in this thread that make me 
I don't find the time and energy to reply to everything.
But I definitely don't count the years in juniors or even novice as part of a career. That's so clear for me, I can't even believe that's a debate, but apparently I am even in the minority here. Junior years should be a development stage. If they are not but just a different age group, why even have seniors and juniors? Let them all compete in one category.
I also can't believe we are arguing about whether people get better with time, at least in certain areas. If they don't, do ice dancers peak around 14-20?
I don't find the time and energy to reply to everything.But I definitely don't count the years in juniors or even novice as part of a career. That's so clear for me, I can't even believe that's a debate, but apparently I am even in the minority here. Junior years should be a development stage. If they are not but just a different age group, why even have seniors and juniors? Let them all compete in one category.
I also can't believe we are arguing about whether people get better with time, at least in certain areas. If they don't, do ice dancers peak around 14-20?
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- Mar 7, 2015
semanticsThere are now so much opinions in this thread that make me
But I definitely don't count the years in juniors or even novice as part of a career. That's so clear for me, I can't even believe that's a debate, but apparently I am even in the minority here. Junior years should be a development stage. If they are not but just a different age group, why even have seniors and juniors? Let them all compete in one category.
I also can't believe we are arguing about whether people get better with time, at least in certain areas. If they don't, do ice dancers peak around 14-20?
cannot open a thread and not be confronted to that... it was clear to me you meant competitive senior careers.. but now some people are even talking about stars on ice Similar threads
