Patrick Chan feeling unappreciated in Canada

[Antilles]

The Globe (article)
CTV (article)

Let the comments begin. I find it odd he thinks his family would have had it easier in China.

ETA: someone should get him a copy of the book, "The Second Mark". He might not think so highly of the system if he read about Shen&Zhao's experiences with it.

 

[skatinginbc]

Brief summary: Chan feels more and more drawn towards his Chinese heritage because his support mainly comes from the Chinese community and he feels he has not received enough support and attention from the Canadians (including the government). He is not as appreciated and recognized in Canada as Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning, who were treated as rockstars. "If my parents hadn't emigrated from China and say I had skated for China, things would have been very different. My parents wouldn't have had to make as much sacrifices as they have and there would be a lot more respect for what we do as figure skaters."

My hunch told me that if Chan had gone through Chinese training program which is known to focus solely on jumps, he would not have become the world record breaker that excels in all-around skating. Life might be difficult for immigrants in Canada, but it is the Canadian skating culture that values basic skills and transitions that helped create Chan the excellent skater.

I'm just curious: Did Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir, who won the Olympic gold on home ice, or Joannie Rochette, who won the Olympic bronze, receive more support and attention from the "Canadians"? Did the parents of Virtue, Moir, and Rochette sacrifice less because they are more Canadian than immigrant families are?

Elvis Stojko is a three-time World champion, two-time Olympic silver medalist, and seven-time Canadian champion. Kurt Browning is a four-time World Champion and four-time Canadian national champion. How many World championship has Chan won? Sometimes instant fame does happen, but more often it is earned through a series of great achievement.

 

[Becki]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...eling-unappreciated-in-canada/article2264092/

Let the comments begin. I find it odd he thinks his family would have had it easier in China.

Probably easier in China because there is more support from the Federation? Apparently the Chinese Federation is VERY strict with its skaters, forcing them to train long hours, and has crazy disciplinary actions =/

 

[skateflower]

I'm just curious: Did Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir, who won the Olympic gold on home ice, or Joannie Rochette, who won the Olympic bronze, receive more support and attention from the "Canadians"? Did the parents of Virtue, Moir, and Rochette sacrifice less because they are more Canadian than immigrant families are?

.

How do you know V/M and Rochette are not frustrated about their finanical conditons and lack of recognition & support by the government and general population ? They haven't complained in the public, but that does not mean they do not have similar opinion.

 

[Bluebonnet]

A Skate Canada official said the interview was conducted earlier this fall, shortly after Chan had returned form China. The remarks were “a stream of consciousness” about his feelings about his Chinese heritage and not meant to reflect on his Canadian ties, said the official, who was not authorized to be quoted in the media.

So it was an old interview happened months ago. The journalist might intentionally kept and unveiled it now in order to create bigger media wave.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Brief summary: Chan feels more and more drawn towards his Chinese heritage because his support mainly comes from the Chinese community and he feels he has not received enough support and attention from the Canadians (including the government). He is not as appreciated and recognized in Canada as Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning, who were treated as rockstars. "If my parents hadn't emigrated from China and say I had skated for China, things would have been very different. My parents wouldn't have had to make as much sacrifices as they have and there would be a lot more respect for what we do as figure skaters."

My hunch told me that if Chan had gone through Chinese training program which is known to focus solely on jumps, he would not have become the world record breaker that excels in all-around skating. Life might be difficult for immigrants in Canada, but it is the Canadian skating culture that values basic skills and transitions that helped create Chan the excellent skater.

I'm just curious: Did Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir, who won the Olympic gold on home ice, or Joannie Rochette, who won the Olympic bronze, receive more support and attention from the "Canadians"? Did the parents of Virtue, Moir, and Rochette sacrifice less because they are more Canadian than immigrant families are?

Elvis Stojko is a three-time World champion, two-time Olympic silver medalist, and seven-time Canadian champion. Kurt Browning is a four-time World Champion and four-time Canadian national champion. How many World championship has Chan won? Sometimes instant fame does happen, but more often it is earned through a series of great achievement.

You retold the report in your words and then questioned Chan's character based on your own translation. The original article did not quote Chan comparing himself to Stojko and Browning or expressing his dissatisfation in such comparison. It is the writer who compared the popularity of figure skating between Browning/Stojko era and today.

As well, about representing China, it was obviously an answer to an unquoted question.

"I do (wish I could have represented both China and Canada when I compete). That would be the ideal situation... in a perfect world."

He was probably asked if he would represent China if he could have represented both countries. A hypothetical question to which saying no would be kind of stupid.

 

[Violet Bliss]

This subject was discussed in three different threads simultaneously. I'll bring my post from Patrick Chan thread here:

I am not sure however that Chan's character would fit well with the way China trains its athletes. For one thing, he is prone to speak his mind, which may make him come across as disobedient and rebellious in the eyes of many. Also, the reason why Chinese skating hasn't produced any other significant star since Lu Chen is their overemphasis on jumps but not the areas that Patrick Chan excels. In that sense, I think Patrick Chan is who he is today because he benefited from the best of both worlds. His personality and character is unquestionably Canadian and he is proud of the fact that he speaks good French which few people outside of Quebec can. Beyond his physical appearance, there is nothing Chinese about him saving the frugality he displayed re: the bus episode at the LA Worlds.

One way or the other, it's unfortunate figure skating isn't what it used to be in North America. However, I think the Browning vs. Stojoko era was quite unique in that it is rare to see two close rivals coming from the same country. Rivalry draws people, whether it's Kerrigan vs. Harding or Ito vs. Yamaguchi or for that matter, Kwan vs. Lipinski. If Chan has a close rival at home who is also world podium contender, I think it's possible there would be greater interest on the sport. The Men's event is still the most watched category in Canada, that tradition has not changed but it can't be a one man show.

My impression of Patrick as a student, from various sources, is that he really listened to his coaches and did as he was told. It has only been a couple years when his new coach encouraged him and he started himself, especially after the Olympics, to be an independant thinker and take charge of his training as an adult. He is a straight talker, but very respectful of the elders, as per Chinese tradition. Superficial observation aside, he is probably more Chinese than he seems and he is likely realizing it and wishing to be even more so. It is a common phase for immigrant children at his age, when they realize that no matter what, they are not exactly like the majority race they had wished so much to assimilate into and indentify with, and that the mainstream has lost its luster as they themselves mature. After years of fighting their parents, these young adults often turn around to appreciate their ancestral culture and become proud of their heritage. Eventually they are likely to benefit from being bicultural in their character development, community associations, and career opportunities.

Of course Patrick is who he is because of everything that have been in his life. It is probably and understandbly a little remorseful for a skater of today in N America to reach the top and find little psychological or financial rewards for a life of hard work and sacrifices. Patrick is finding himself much more popular in Korea and getting more recognition in China now that he has been there. Unlike most Canadian skaters, he is bicultural with twin identities, something not discouraged in Canada, and thus has more options.

I think it's a phase and he will come to appreciate his blessings. Maybe he already does too much and feels indebted. The reason for all his falls last season when he debuted his quad was the fear of disappointing those who had supported him so much. It is a mental burden few would understand and it was Boitano who did and was able to help him.

I have wondered myself what really motivate skaters and athletes in less popular sports to put themselves through what few can imagine. What is at the end of the rainbow? And an actual elite level competitive career is so short after a life dedicated to trainging. How do they handle the rest of their lives? These are very special human beings indeed.

eta. I do not have complete faith in the truthfulness of the Reuter report. The media have mispresented so many facts and views that a grain of salt is always advicable. This report is controversal enough that I expect some clarification from Patrick himself soon. Seems like they did the interviewa a while ago and saved it for the opportune time for optimal effect. What effect are they after is what I wonder.

eta. As I mentioned in that thread, a Chinese TV network broadcast an interview with Patrick a couple of days ago and I am hoping for online videos to show up soon. The interview he did in Hong Kong was very good and in depth so I wish for another one of similar quality.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I can understand Patrick's frustration. I don't think he meant on some what he said if it was really like this. It was just his temparary reflection on his frustration. He might have changed his mind the second day. How many of you at age 20 have the ability like Patrick on answering questions and making remarks to journalists? I know I don't have.

Great! Give us something to talk about during this never ending waiting before GPF.

 

[skatinginbc]

How do you know V/M and Rochette are not frustrated about their finanical conditons and lack of recognition & support by the government and general population ?

I don't know. I'm just curious if that is also the case. Do you know?

 

[skatinginbc]

You retold the report in your words and then questioned Chan's character based on your own translation. The original article did not quote Chan comparing himself to Stojko and Browning or expressing his dissatisfation in such comparison. It is the writer who compared the popularity of figure skating between Browning/Stojko era and today.

The reporter said, "He was disappointed that he has not received the attention that Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning did in the 1980s and 1990s."
I said, "He is not as appreciated and recognized in Canada as Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning."
Anything wrong with my paraphrase?

 

[Bluebonnet]

The reporter said, "He was disappointed that he has not received the attention that Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning did in the 1980s and 1990s."
I said, "He is not as appreciated and recognized in Canada as Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning."
Anything wrong with my paraphrase?

Yes. There was a great chance that Patrick didn't even mention Stojko and Browning's names. That was why the reporter didn't directly quote from Patrick.

 

[Violet Bliss]

The reporter said, "He was disappointed that he has not received the attention that Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning did in the 1980s and 1990s."
I said, "He is not as appreciated and recognized in Canada as Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning."
Anything wrong with my paraphrase?

I see where the problem is now. You were paraphrasing the Globe & Mail report which paraphrased the original article which says

Whereas Elvis Stojko and Kurt Browning were treated as rockstars and showered with plaudits during the 1980s and 90s -- when Canadian men glided to eight world titles in 11 years -- the skating landscape for Chan in 2011 is very different.

which are the reporter's words, not Chan's. This is typical of telephone/gossip game where one biased listening/reading leads to another until the eventual recognized "fact" is completely different from the real fact.

I think you moved your first post here from the Practice report thread so I assumed you read and summerized from the original Reuter's article linked there.

 

[Buttercup]

I originally posted this in another thread, but it seemed like a better fit here.

Assuming that the report is at least somewhat truthful, I think these are unfortunate comments to make. Skate Canada strikes me as one of the more supportive and helpful federations in skating, and training conditions and coaching in Canada are world class. I believe that in China, elite athletes are expected to leave home at a very young age to live near the big training centers? That's a difficult thing to do. Personally, I doubt Chan would have reached the level he is at now if he'd trained in China, where there appears to be more of an emphasis on pairs skating and the big elements. And again, he's got the support of a very good and influential federation; if he had to deal with a federation like the FFSG, or NISA, he might have had a much harder time.

A Skate Canada official said the interview was conducted earlier this fall, shortly after Chan had returned form China. The remarks were “a stream of consciousness” about his feelings about his Chinese heritage and not meant to reflect on his Canadian ties, said the official, who was not authorized to be quoted in the media.

When you are a world champion and aspire to be viewed as a representative of your sport, stream of consciousnesses interviews are probably not a good idea.

 

[Violet Bliss]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...eling-unappreciated-in-canada/article2264092/

Let the comments begin. I find it odd he thinks his family would have had it easier in China.

ETA: someone should get him a copy of the book, "The Second Mark". He might not think so highly of the system if he read about Shen&Zhao's experiences with it.

That was then and this is now. Zhao is 17 years Chan's senior. It would be more appropriete to look at Nan Song's situation as he is just a few months older than Patrick, as well as Han Yan who is a few years younger. With Patrick's talent, he would likely be at the level he's at now, i.e. with Nan Song's jumps but better skating, or similar to Han Yan's progress, which means more mature skating at his age of 20 than Yan at his current age.

All these are speculations. As I said, Patrick is who he is because of everything he has experienced so far in his life. However, one can't be too fast and sure to conclude he wouldn't have achieved his level of excellence under the Chinese system in his time.

The above arguement does not mean I believe Patrick said exactly what was attributed to him. I have a huge dose of skepticism regarding what Reuter usually writes about Patrick. It's always very different when one watches his actual interview.

 

[gmyers]

Obviously chinese parents basically have to give their kids over to the state and that is a HUGE sacrifice and probably not like his parents lots and lots of financial sacrifices which are seemingly not so harsh but it all depends on what your perspective is.

 

[sky_fly20]

very interesting read

what are the chances of Patrick getting chinese citizenship and defecting competing for his native homeland ?

 

[let`s talk]

Oh, god. Again he's whining all around. That is just a comedy.

 

[KKonas]

Another unfortunate habit of Chan's "foot in mouth" disease. His trip to Asia being treated as a "mega star" has given him illusions of what his life would be like if his parents stayed in China. I was around the skating world during Lu Chen's era and saw what she went through with Chinese federation officials at that time. It wasn't pretty.

 

[brightphoton]

uhhh, Patrick, I love you, I really do, but you're deluded if you think the Chinese federation would have been any more supportive than the Canadian federation.

Chinese fans love you more than white fans, of course. Koreans love Yuna Kim more than white people do, Japanese fans love Mao Asada more than white people do, etc. (Before anyone flames me, admit it, it's true) But that adoration from fans doesn't carry over to the powers that be.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I believe that in China, elite athletes are expected to leave home at a very young age to live near the big training centers? That's a difficult thing to do. Personally, I doubt Chan would have reached the level he is at now if he'd trained in China...

I don't understand why it's so dreadful to leave parents and live in a place that specifically designed for these future hopefuls of the country? No Chinese parents who have kids do that think this way! Otherwise, they have the choice of not having their kids do that.

The truth is people are envy other people who could be able to send their kids to such facilities. People who have kids in there are very proud of it. The concept is just like boarding school in western world. People who are rich enough normally do that. That's a sign of rich. Prince William and Prince Harry were sent to boarding school from very young. I've known many American rich people have been doing it. It's unfairly portraited like a hell in Chinese athletes training center where it is not. Descipline? Absolutely undoubtedly. Abuse? No. Many successful people in every field, not just in figure skating, in the free world have similar hardship in their childhood too. That means it is universally "no pain, no gain."

If I am allowed to take my imagination further, like all other negative speculations have done, I believe Patrick could very well be successful in China. Patrick is naturally extremely athletic. If he had learned jumps first, he'd be good at jumps at very young and outstanding. Though it could be a different Patrick, but it will be a successful Patrick. Like I said in different post, the approach are different in China, but in the end, the goals are the same.

Though I think that Patrick has been spoiled by freedom of western world. He doesn't care the aftermath of his remarks. I don't think he meant it at all regarding to representing country other than Canada.