Polina Edmunds World Championship prospects post 4CC.

[Bonnie F]

I like the music but hate the costume. I also get distracted by her stiff arms and shoulders as she is entering her jumps. This is what makes her seem so "juniorish," as she is constantly called, to me. If she could stop telegraphing the jumps with her stiff upper body posture, simplify her hairstyle and hire Maia Shibutani's costume designer I think she could be a contender to medal in anything she enters. The only question for me is will her jumping technique hold up if the telegraphing is minimized. I guess time will tell.

 

[astronaut]

Edmunds was cool. She delivered the goods at a majour international and won the gold. I'm not overly "costume conscious". I will notice an overly gawdy costume, a very attractive costume or a costume that lends to "over-exposure"................if you know what I mean.
I won't be surprised if she has new costumes for Worlds and will predict her costumes for next season will look a bit snazzier. I'm really more interested in how well she skates and competes. I have latched on as an Edmunds fan and still believe she has a better chance at challenging Russia's super ladies than her USFS peers. The girl is a wicked good figure skater.



So far, Polina is competing on the majour international level whilst also attending high school and otherwise leading a "normal life"....................whatever that is. As an olde friend of mine might say, just a regular ole American girl.

Only time will tell how far Polina Edmunds can go in this sport. I'd love to see her join Tuktamysheva and Radio Nova on the World podium. That would be cool. My 3 favourites amongst current ISU senior ladies on the 2015 World podium.


Mike

 

[silverlake22]

But what I'm confused about is why Anna Pogorilaya consistently scores a lot higher than she does. Anna's jumps are often landed sloppily. And Anna's spins are not good. No center, ugly positions, terrible line. And every time Anna puts an illusion in a combination spin, it's ruined, and she should get -2 or -3 for the entire spin because it's so cringe inducing. When she doesn't have a jumps meltdown Anna can be great.

So...it isn't surprising when Polina brings it up that she's doing the same content and she thinks she deserves more. If you compare Polina to Anna it's very clear. It is unfair when Polina does the same content but trails behind by 10+ points.

Eh. From what I can tell, Anna skates faster and more powerfully than Polina, which would help her PCS. I would also say her jumps, when landed well, are generally higher and more definitively landed/rotated than Polina's. She also has a little more international reputation than Polina (going on her 2nd full senior season, won medals at JGPF, JW, and all of her GP events, was 4th at Worlds last year and won a small bronze in the FS, and qualified for 2 senior GPFs), so her credentials are a bit more impressive at this point. 4CCs was Polina's first (non-B) international medal on the senior level and only her 6th senior international competition. She never even competed at JW and didn't quite manage to medal at the JGPF last season.

Points wise, comparing events where both girls skated well like Worlds last year and Euros vs. 4CCs this year, the scores only vary by 8-10 points. Most of this margin is from the SP anyways, where Anna deservedly is scoring higher because she does two jumps in the second half (Polina only does the 2a in the second half) and chooses to do a 3lo as opposed to a 3f with an edge call like Polina. Plus her 3lz-3t is often of better quality. In the FS their scores are very close, last year at Worlds Anna had 131+ to Polina's 126+, this year at Euros Anna had 125+ to Polina's 122+. So 3-5 points isn't that much of a difference at all and it mostly comes down to jump GOE (Polina does two 3f in her FS, jumps are more telegraphed) and a slight PCS differential (likely due to Anna's speed and having more international reputation). I would also say Anna is packaged much more senior and comes across as older than 16 on the ice. Polina could probably look mature on the ice, too, but she doesn't currently with the way she is packaged. This shouldn't really affect scoring but it could make Polina seem more juniorish than Anna.

I think the two girls are fairly comparable and if you break down the scores that becomes apparent. Anna is a little bit ahead at this point, but not by much. Polina is losing points in her SP but this has been apparent for awhile now, she usually places higher in the FS. Next year if she can do the axel and solo triple late in the program and swap the 3f for 3lo, she can definitely get into the 65+ SP score range.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

Skating faster is one aspect of PCS. Skating sloppy is a problem that permeates Anna's programs. Yet she still scores higher.

Anna freaking scored 118 at the GPF. With downgraded spins and a fall! That's too much. She should get hammered on choreography and interpretation. I don't think the person who made her programs intended for her to skate them sloppy and with little refinement the way she does. I still think she should get -2 and -3 when she does illusions in her spins. This would close the gap between the two.

I totally agree regarding the jumps though. Anna's jumps are higher and more explosive than Polina's. But...I just see Anna getting more credit for similar content. Which is still completely unfair.

 

[silverlake22]

Botched spins cost less than missing jumps. I think all 7 of Anna's triples were ratified at GPF, she fell on her 3 jump combo, but it was rotated. The spin mistakes were jarring but not that costly. Her PCS were deservedly lower than usual for that skate (57 instead of 60+) but her TES was still 62+, hence the score. Even Julia got almost 112 for her FS at GPF, and she missed almost the whole second half of her program! I think the scores at GPF were just high for whatever reason. Polina's FS scores on the GP would have been higher had she not skated abysmally in the SP at both her events.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes, GPF scores always seem to be higher.

But this is key. Blowing the SP puts you in the earlier group to skate. There often seems to be a cost to that. If Polina skates her SP's well, her scores will go up.

Plus doing two flips in the fs, if she tends to get edge calls on them, is not a great idea. Is she actually doing that? I don't follow the ladies that much.

 

[Globetrotter]

Plus doing two flips in the fs, if she tends to get edge calls on them, is not a great idea. Is she actually doing that? I don't follow the ladies that much.

That's her layout, she has 2 x 3Lz and 2 x 3F (! /e) in her LP. The latter really costed her dearly. She either has to fix them or take a smarter way out like Anna Pogo (prone to lipping) and Lena Radio (used to lip as a junior but 3F is her least fav jump) and Gracie Gold (regular lipper) in minimising the 3F and substitute them for the 3R. The BV difference of the 3F and 3R are negligible (5.3 vs 5.1), but the corresponding increase in GOE without the ! or e call will pay much bigger dividends. Pity that Polina's 3R is not the gorgeous thing yet.

 

[Sandpiper]

That's her layout, she has 2 x 3Lz and 2 x 3F (! /e) in her LP. The latter really costed her dearly. She either has to fix them or take a smarter way out like Anna Pogo (prone to lipping) and Lena Radio (used to lip as a junior but 3F is her least fav jump) and Gracie Gold (regular lipper) in minimising the 3F and substitute them for the 3R. The BV difference of the 3F and 3R are negligible (5.3 vs 5.1), but the corresponding increase in GOE without the ! or e call will pay much bigger dividends. Pity that Polina's 3R is not the gorgeous thing yet.

But changing her layout would mean she admits she lips. Which she doesn't seem to want to do... Maybe she doesn't like doing 3Lo and the "my edges are perfect" interviews are to influence tech panel...?

 

[chuckm]

Pogo lips, too.

 

[Sandpiper]

Pogo lips, too.

And she's smart enough to do one flip over two programs, not three.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

But changing her layout would mean she admits she lips. Which she doesn't seem to want to do... Maybe she doesn't like doing 3Lo and the "my edges are perfect" interviews are to influence tech panel...?

i love those interviews where Polina tells you exactly where she learned the jump from and why her technique is good.

 

[shine]

Well, Polina may have a point when she says her flip is not a lip. I think this might have been the first time I've seen a slo-mo replay of her flip taken from the front angle where one can see the exact edge going in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9IOb1RYt8U#t=390 It looks she switches to an inside edge right when the other foot picks in. I don't know if this is how she consistently does the jump (usually the camera angle just doesn't allow one to assess it definitely) , but at least in the video it looks to be an inside edge take off.

 

[Barb]

Well, Polina may have a point when she says her flip is not a lip. I think this might have been the first time I've seen a slo-mo replay of her flip taken from the front angle where one can see the exact edge going in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9IOb1RYt8U#t=390 It looks she switches to an inside edge right when the other foot picks in.

It definitly looks like a lip, at most she got the flat edge.

 

[shine]

It definitly looks like a lip, at most she got the flat edge.

Not sure how you are seeing that. After the three turn she goes from the inside to a slight outside edge, but rocks from the outside edge back into the inside edge right before she picks in. Also, the fact that the picking foot is quite far apart from the gliding foot makes me think it's an inside edge takeoff. Usually when taking off from an outside edge, wouldn't the picking foot need to be either directly behind the gliding foot or at least much closer to it, or else it's quite physically impossible to do?

 

[Manitou]

She had no expectations at 4CC so it was easier for her. Now everybody will be looking at her and we will see how she will handle it.
On the other hand it should be imprinted on every skater's boots: a quote by Mikaela Shiffrin:
"..if you work hard enough and you prepare well enough, no matter how much pressure you feel, you can still perform."

 

[dorispulaski]

And she's smart enough to do one flip over two programs, not three.

Yes,and Polina isn't, clearly.Using the press to argue with the tech panel is not a good strategy either. It only alerts the next tech panel to scrutinize her flip more closely, supposing they might otherwise have missed the memo that she lips at least some time.

 

[TontoK]

Yes,and Polina isn't, clearly.Using the press to argue with the tech panel is not a good strategy either. It only alerts the next tech panel to scrutinize her flip more closely, supposing they might otherwise have missed the memo that she lips at least some time.

I actually like Ashley's strategy concerning her lutz edge.

In an interview, she acknowledged that it's a problem, says she's really focused on improving that this season, has gotten much better, and intends it to be a non-issue at WC.

She's given the judges to give it a second look... in the right way. Now they're looking with the mindset that she's addressed the problem.

 

[silverlake22]

Well, Polina may have a point when she says her flip is not a lip. I think this might have been the first time I've seen a slo-mo replay of her flip taken from the front angle where one can see the exact edge going in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9IOb1RYt8U#t=390 It looks she switches to an inside edge right when the other foot picks in. I don't know if this is how she consistently does the jump (usually the camera angle just doesn't allow one to assess it definitely) , but at least in the video it looks to be an inside edge take off.

It's hard to tell and she sets up the jump definitely on an outside edge and then usually hits a flat or shallow inside edge right before she picks in. So technically speaking, that jump is not that bad. However, the unclear edge takeoff still results with a "!" call that will hurt her GOE. I can see her flip not deeming an "e", but the ! is deserved IMO. She's better off adjusting her layout rather than fighting the judges. She already does a 3lo in combination in her FS anyways so she's fully capable of that jump. Doing it more should just make it better. Gracie's 3lo is absolutely gorgeous now after adding it into her SP, but she used to miss that jump all the time.

 

[sbaker]

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2015/02/24/110238472

Her journey will be very interesting to watch indeed. She hasn't been catapulted to the top right away, and I think that is for the benefit of her mindset and long term improvement. Having something to prove is motivating and I don't think there's a ton of pressure on her right now. I see her having a long career like Carolina, but we'll see. I don't think the world podium this year, with those programs... I really wish her mother would take a step back. I knew she controlled a lot of the costume design, but didn't know she selected the music as well...

 

[StitchMonkey]

I actually like Ashley's strategy concerning her lutz edge.

In an interview, she acknowledged that it's a problem, says she's really focused on improving that this season, has gotten much better, and intends it to be a non-issue at WC.

She's given the judges to give it a second look... in the right way. Now they're looking with the mindset that she's addressed the problem.

It's also worth noting that Ashley's strat is to get a good lutz, not a good enough lutz. She is not looking to get an edge she can get away with, she flat out said she wants a really solid outside edge. She does not want the question mark, she wants to do it right and well, not just get away with it. She does not come across as trying to get away with something.