Russian article on Irina (not good news)
- Thread starter Kwanford Wife
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
janjam and havanamesa1,
If you would take the time to educate yourself about vasculitis you would find that it is quite possible to be unable to get out of bed one day and the next feel just fine. IMO it is very irresponsible to comment on something that you obvously know nothing about, especially when you are questioning someone's credibility. Irina's illness has been well documented so you are lying when you say she does not have this disease. I suggest you check your facts. Autoimmune disorders are very difficult to diagnoise, treat and live with. They are also very common. If I were you I would not tempt fate.
If you would take the time to educate yourself about vasculitis you would find that it is quite possible to be unable to get out of bed one day and the next feel just fine. IMO it is very irresponsible to comment on something that you obvously know nothing about, especially when you are questioning someone's credibility. Irina's illness has been well documented so you are lying when you say she does not have this disease. I suggest you check your facts. Autoimmune disorders are very difficult to diagnoise, treat and live with. They are also very common. If I were you I would not tempt fate.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I think for some posters, it is confusing whether Irina had a recurrence of her vasculitus or a very bad cold in Lyon?
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
The Prednisone used to treat Vasculitis suppresses the immune system and, therefore, increases the frequency or severity of infections and decreases the effectiveness of vaccines and antibiotics. A simple cold or the flu can be much worse in patients who take Predisone.
The article says that it was the after effects of the flu she had during Russian Nationals.
Irina's type of vasculitis is Churg-Strauss in which asthma is a big factor. Here is a link to Johns Hopkins Vasculitis Center.
http://vasculitis.med.jhu.edu/index.html
and more specifics about Churg-Strauss
http://vasculitis.med.jhu.edu/typesof/churgstrauss.html
The article says that it was the after effects of the flu she had during Russian Nationals.
Irina's type of vasculitis is Churg-Strauss in which asthma is a big factor. Here is a link to Johns Hopkins Vasculitis Center.
http://vasculitis.med.jhu.edu/index.html
and more specifics about Churg-Strauss
http://vasculitis.med.jhu.edu/typesof/churgstrauss.html
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
havanamesa1 said:How much do you bet that this "sick" skater will be up and running by SP time, with more energy and power than any other skater (even the healthiest ones), and with her ugly and sloppy skating, will still win the OGM?
This sick skater has tremendous will power and she has shown it over and over again, winning competitions even when she was not feeling well. I hope she will prove it again and win the OGM. If she does not win, she will still have my respect.
BTW this is a sympathetic thread toward Irina. It was in poor taste to call her skating ugly and sloppy, regardless of the fact that you have the right to your opinion. In this thread at least, keep those ugly thoughts to yourself. Irina does not need them. Frankly, she does not care. She just skates with effervescence and joy and it makes me happy to see her skate.
Vash
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2005
Piel said:
You believe everything you read? You have the right to be gullible if you want to be such, but you can't convince everyone to believe someone who claims to be sick with this-and-that and then get sick again with this-and-that and still get sick again with this-and-that, all amidst a bunch of pity-me stories and while consistently skating as a superwoman. Puh-leez!
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2005
JanJam said:
ITA, this gimmick is getting realllllllly old. I wonder what the next drama is right before she skates her SP?
I don't even like Irina, but I don't believe for a second that she's faking it. What might be over the top is the constant "sympathy" feelings for her, thinking that she's ENTITLED to titles, inflated marks, etc. just because of what she's had to go through. But I don't believe for a second that she's not really sick. Come on, how does one explain her sometimes erratically uncharacteristic performances? It just doesn't make sense.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
havanamesa1 said:
Sportwriter Phil hersch was given access to her medical records. I have vasculitis and am very familiar with the excaberations and remissions that go with it. Irina's bouts with the disease are quite "normal" for lack of a better word. Her mother's battle with kidney disease is also well documented.
Again, I suggest that you educate yourself about the disease before making such ignorant statments. I hope that I am not being too generous in assuming that your remarks are due to ignorance and not hate.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2005
Your basis for believing everything is Phil Hersch's report and her doctors' statements taken at face value? These "well-documented" stories you believe in speak more of your "naivete" than your supposed knowledge of her supposed illness and medication. Plus, who was questioning her mother's condition to begin with? (Frankly, I couldn't care less how or what her mother is as this is not part of her skating). What's annoying is how this is used as a sob story to generate pity for someone whom claims to be sick but performs as a superhuman.
This gimmick is getting really old.
This gimmick is getting really old.
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- Joined
- Jan 18, 2006
Mathman said:Thanks, Ptichka. Here's the best part:
"[Thanks for the Silver Doe Award and] I promise to win something else!"
Yes thank you very much for the translation Ptichka!
I have been in panic mode for several months now regarding all the skating illnesses/injuries. My heart just can't catch a break.
Sending out good vibes and all my very best to Irina and all the skaters out there who have trained so hard for the Games.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2006
~*~ GO GO IRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~*~
Warning: Long Obnoxious Rgirl Post Straight Ahead--RUN!!!
A great big THANK YOU from all us dumb, gullible people for both this post and the earlier one in which you succinctly explain, among other things, the effects of prednisone on the immune system for a lay audience. I'm sure I speak for the entire board, but certainly for myself
, when I say how thankful we are that we got your to-the-point version of these facts about prednisone, asthma, and vasculitis (I'll explain the italicized "facts" later) rather than one of my rambling, scrambling, where-am-I? versions.
So for Piel, I hope nobody minds if I take it upon myself to award her the "Huge Topic Explained in a Pithy Post" trophy, which for right now looks like this,
As for facts: People such as Havanamesa and JanJam can choose to dismiss physicians' records, records of hospitalizations, an article by a US sports writer who used Irina's medical records to validate his statements, and instead attend their meetings of the Flat Earth Society, which is your right in the US and on this forum, subject to the discretion of the moderators. Too bad Court TV isn't covering this so the attorneys for your side could cross examine Irina, her physicians, the Russian Figure Skating Federation, and every nurse who took Irina's temperature, to name just a few. (Pro Tip: Be sure to ask where the nurses put that thermometer as that can account for as much as a two-degree difference from one, err, position to another.)
Oh, I forgot! They're diagnosing and treating Irina in Russia! We all know not to trust anything from over there. Why they don't even love their children the way we do, even if they are supposedly a non-communist country now. This is a fact. I know. I was raised on it by HUAC and our US public school system.
Okay, lock me up. I admit to unnecessary use of sarcastic and snide remarks. In all seriousness, I admire people such as Piel, Hockeyfan, and Red Dog who can respond to your sarcastic and snide remarks with tasteful comments that make their point while acknowledging both within the tenor of what they say and by directly stating that you have the right to your opinion. I, of course, am a much lower form of life and damn proud of it, even though I still admire the posters I mentioned for having the control of higher life forms than I.
My point is this: No one could ever prove to your satisfaction that Irina has any of the health problems, both chronic and acute, reported by various sources based on information regularly accepted in not only US courts but also in clinical studies published in peer reviewed scientific journals, not to mention used by physicians treating the patients of other physicians who are not available for whatever reason. Medical records are not perfect. They're written primarily by physicians and nurses, ie, people, hence the lack of perfection, downright deadly mistakes, and good old-fashioned lies.
We also have eye-witness accounts by Irina's physicians, so again, not only automatically subject to imperfections, stupid errors, and lies, but doubly so because they are, after all, Irina's physicians. Who, if not they, are going to support Irina in her desire to lie around in bed, malingering her way to the OGM, since it has been proven that skaters who jump up out their sickbeds and compete at the Olympics with a fever of 104 degrees F amazingly have the skates of their lives, leaving the judges in tears of joy who can't wait to give the miracle skater a new all-time high score and the Olympic gold medal, the weight of which causes the brave but still frail skater to collapse as it is hung around her neck in a big-time media sports soap opera the likes of which will make "The Tonya/Nancy Whack" and "The Oksana Rags-to-Riches-to-AA" stories absolutely pale in comparison.
The NBC executives are no fools. They saw how every sob from Oksana in the K&C after her FS was another ratings point and with figure skating ratings now in the dumps, any idiot can see that this whole "Irina is sick" deal, not to mention any other "injured" skaters, was cooked up by NBC and the skaters so the viewership for figure skating at these Olympics would go through the roof and big time money would come raining down for the network, advertisers, and an "Ocean's 13" sequel. Who needs bendy greaseman Chang when we've got bendy greasegirl Sasha?
Nope, not even CIA and Europol reports will satisfy certain people that Irina is not now nor has ever been sick. I mean, she doesn't even pump blood so she doesn't have veins so how could they be inflammed? Huh? Answer THAT one, Malingering-Irina-Believers. And we all know by the way she skates that Irina has no heart. I mean, like how totally obvious.
So I'm afraid posters like Havanamesa and JanJam will just have to remain incredulous at the length, breadth, and depth of the stupidity of all the rest of us idiots who have professional and/or personal experience with vasculitis and prednisone; who understand and recognize the effects the disease and medication have on those who suffer from it; who also understand and recognize the erratic course of most chronic diseases, hence the up-and-down/remission-flare nature especially of autoimmune diseases; and who just plain have decided to be fools and, yes, actually believe what we read in medical books and peer-reviewed medical journals, what we hear from physicians who have studied vasculitis for anywhere from five to over 40 years; who remain skeptical when medical professionals are a little too certain when answering what we know are complex questions or a little too glib when avoiding them; and, finally, for those who are so unfortunate as to have had vasculitis and/or similar autoimmune diseases, foolishly believing what they have felt inside and seen happen to their bodies over the course of five, 10, and 20 years or more of such diseases.
We'll believe the obviously ridiculous tales of Malingerin' Irina while you go off to your local meeting of the Flat Earth Society and we'll all rest well knowing that physicians, at least in the US and Canada, have the right to their opinions just like we do, so that, for example (this is a true case) a 30-year-old man, 6 ft tall can drop down to 88 pounds and end up on life support in the ICU of one of the country's best hospital's because it was the opinion of not one but of several physicians that the man was exhibiting the profound weight loss, fever, difficulty breathing, and many other symptoms because he was suffering from depression. The man was prescribed antidepressant medication that typically took about two months for it to have the desired effect on the person's mood...blah, blah, you know where this is going...until the man's psychiatrist checked him into the fine and famous hospital where physicians who had never seen the man before discovered he had double pneumonia and from his condition and certain factors in his bloodwork, looked to have had it for at least two to three months.
Yes, the man sued the physicians who had misdiagnosed him with depression instead of double pneumonia and the physicians were of the wise opinion, IMO, that they all settle out of court.
But as the saying goes, which I'll clean up for GS: "Opinions are like belly-buttons. Everybody has one."
Rgirl
P.S. Piel: I know you're probably making up all that malarky about having vasculitis, but you know me, I'll believe anything, so even though this is coming from somebody who not only believes Irina is chronically ill with vasculitis, but also acutely ill with the flu or some kind of flu-like virus--my guess is due to taking the prednisone that controls the fake damage of Irina's fake vasculitis since prednisone is a steroid. Catabolic, anabolic, schmatabolic, who cares? We all know a steroid will make Irina skate like superwoman, not do something ridiculous like lower her resistance to infection, both viral and bacterial. Crikey, what some people won't believe!
Anyhoo, what I was gonna say in a way that couldn't be more dumb is that I think you are one brave person for posting that you have had vasculitis for many years. Why brave? Because even Dumb Ol' Rgirl knows how mean some people can be and will do things like think you are just trying to get sympathy from the judges, I mean certain other posters, and think you are just malingering for purposes of secondary gain, even though we know you really are malingering because even us dumb people wouldn't be stupid enough to come out and admit we believe you.
So I say you are one brave dumb broad for telling truths out of school that so many really, really smart people will never believe because they've got a whole lot of Irina Hatin' to do and even if they don't hate Irina, well, we're just stupid enough for believing such a far-fetched story that we don't deserve to have anything we say be believed.
I mean really. Some things simply do not happen in the real world--stuff like getting vasculitis when your mother needs a kidney transplant and you could buy her one if you won the OGM which it looks like a sure bet you will do because you have been mowing down the competition at every event except one when you lost to a girl who is too young to even go to the Olympics and then you get the flu right dag nab before the Olympics--nope, nope, nope, just doesn't happen. Maybe on the TV, but in real life, stuff like that just don't happen to real people.
But I'll believe anything so I believe you are very brave.
Oops! Sorry, Piel. I'm blabbin' away while we better get goin' and follow that gopher down that hole or else we'll be late for the Had Matter's disco party.
:chorus: :chorus:
Piel,Piel said:
A great big THANK YOU from all us dumb, gullible people for both this post and the earlier one in which you succinctly explain, among other things, the effects of prednisone on the immune system for a lay audience. I'm sure I speak for the entire board, but certainly for myself
, when I say how thankful we are that we got your to-the-point version of these facts about prednisone, asthma, and vasculitis (I'll explain the italicized "facts" later) rather than one of my rambling, scrambling, where-am-I? versions. So for Piel, I hope nobody minds if I take it upon myself to award her the "Huge Topic Explained in a Pithy Post" trophy, which for right now looks like this,
As for facts: People such as Havanamesa and JanJam can choose to dismiss physicians' records, records of hospitalizations, an article by a US sports writer who used Irina's medical records to validate his statements, and instead attend their meetings of the Flat Earth Society, which is your right in the US and on this forum, subject to the discretion of the moderators. Too bad Court TV isn't covering this so the attorneys for your side could cross examine Irina, her physicians, the Russian Figure Skating Federation, and every nurse who took Irina's temperature, to name just a few. (Pro Tip: Be sure to ask where the nurses put that thermometer as that can account for as much as a two-degree difference from one, err, position to another.)
Oh, I forgot! They're diagnosing and treating Irina in Russia! We all know not to trust anything from over there. Why they don't even love their children the way we do, even if they are supposedly a non-communist country now. This is a fact. I know. I was raised on it by HUAC and our US public school system.
Okay, lock me up. I admit to unnecessary use of sarcastic and snide remarks. In all seriousness, I admire people such as Piel, Hockeyfan, and Red Dog who can respond to your sarcastic and snide remarks with tasteful comments that make their point while acknowledging both within the tenor of what they say and by directly stating that you have the right to your opinion. I, of course, am a much lower form of life and damn proud of it, even though I still admire the posters I mentioned for having the control of higher life forms than I.
My point is this: No one could ever prove to your satisfaction that Irina has any of the health problems, both chronic and acute, reported by various sources based on information regularly accepted in not only US courts but also in clinical studies published in peer reviewed scientific journals, not to mention used by physicians treating the patients of other physicians who are not available for whatever reason. Medical records are not perfect. They're written primarily by physicians and nurses, ie, people, hence the lack of perfection, downright deadly mistakes, and good old-fashioned lies.
We also have eye-witness accounts by Irina's physicians, so again, not only automatically subject to imperfections, stupid errors, and lies, but doubly so because they are, after all, Irina's physicians. Who, if not they, are going to support Irina in her desire to lie around in bed, malingering her way to the OGM, since it has been proven that skaters who jump up out their sickbeds and compete at the Olympics with a fever of 104 degrees F amazingly have the skates of their lives, leaving the judges in tears of joy who can't wait to give the miracle skater a new all-time high score and the Olympic gold medal, the weight of which causes the brave but still frail skater to collapse as it is hung around her neck in a big-time media sports soap opera the likes of which will make "The Tonya/Nancy Whack" and "The Oksana Rags-to-Riches-to-AA" stories absolutely pale in comparison.
The NBC executives are no fools. They saw how every sob from Oksana in the K&C after her FS was another ratings point and with figure skating ratings now in the dumps, any idiot can see that this whole "Irina is sick" deal, not to mention any other "injured" skaters, was cooked up by NBC and the skaters so the viewership for figure skating at these Olympics would go through the roof and big time money would come raining down for the network, advertisers, and an "Ocean's 13" sequel. Who needs bendy greaseman Chang when we've got bendy greasegirl Sasha?
Nope, not even CIA and Europol reports will satisfy certain people that Irina is not now nor has ever been sick. I mean, she doesn't even pump blood so she doesn't have veins so how could they be inflammed? Huh? Answer THAT one, Malingering-Irina-Believers. And we all know by the way she skates that Irina has no heart. I mean, like how totally obvious.
So I'm afraid posters like Havanamesa and JanJam will just have to remain incredulous at the length, breadth, and depth of the stupidity of all the rest of us idiots who have professional and/or personal experience with vasculitis and prednisone; who understand and recognize the effects the disease and medication have on those who suffer from it; who also understand and recognize the erratic course of most chronic diseases, hence the up-and-down/remission-flare nature especially of autoimmune diseases; and who just plain have decided to be fools and, yes, actually believe what we read in medical books and peer-reviewed medical journals, what we hear from physicians who have studied vasculitis for anywhere from five to over 40 years; who remain skeptical when medical professionals are a little too certain when answering what we know are complex questions or a little too glib when avoiding them; and, finally, for those who are so unfortunate as to have had vasculitis and/or similar autoimmune diseases, foolishly believing what they have felt inside and seen happen to their bodies over the course of five, 10, and 20 years or more of such diseases.
We'll believe the obviously ridiculous tales of Malingerin' Irina while you go off to your local meeting of the Flat Earth Society and we'll all rest well knowing that physicians, at least in the US and Canada, have the right to their opinions just like we do, so that, for example (this is a true case) a 30-year-old man, 6 ft tall can drop down to 88 pounds and end up on life support in the ICU of one of the country's best hospital's because it was the opinion of not one but of several physicians that the man was exhibiting the profound weight loss, fever, difficulty breathing, and many other symptoms because he was suffering from depression. The man was prescribed antidepressant medication that typically took about two months for it to have the desired effect on the person's mood...blah, blah, you know where this is going...until the man's psychiatrist checked him into the fine and famous hospital where physicians who had never seen the man before discovered he had double pneumonia and from his condition and certain factors in his bloodwork, looked to have had it for at least two to three months.
Yes, the man sued the physicians who had misdiagnosed him with depression instead of double pneumonia and the physicians were of the wise opinion, IMO, that they all settle out of court.
But as the saying goes, which I'll clean up for GS: "Opinions are like belly-buttons. Everybody has one."
Rgirl
P.S. Piel: I know you're probably making up all that malarky about having vasculitis, but you know me, I'll believe anything, so even though this is coming from somebody who not only believes Irina is chronically ill with vasculitis, but also acutely ill with the flu or some kind of flu-like virus--my guess is due to taking the prednisone that controls the fake damage of Irina's fake vasculitis since prednisone is a steroid. Catabolic, anabolic, schmatabolic, who cares? We all know a steroid will make Irina skate like superwoman, not do something ridiculous like lower her resistance to infection, both viral and bacterial. Crikey, what some people won't believe!
Anyhoo, what I was gonna say in a way that couldn't be more dumb is that I think you are one brave person for posting that you have had vasculitis for many years. Why brave? Because even Dumb Ol' Rgirl knows how mean some people can be and will do things like think you are just trying to get sympathy from the judges, I mean certain other posters, and think you are just malingering for purposes of secondary gain, even though we know you really are malingering because even us dumb people wouldn't be stupid enough to come out and admit we believe you.
So I say you are one brave dumb broad for telling truths out of school that so many really, really smart people will never believe because they've got a whole lot of Irina Hatin' to do and even if they don't hate Irina, well, we're just stupid enough for believing such a far-fetched story that we don't deserve to have anything we say be believed.
I mean really. Some things simply do not happen in the real world--stuff like getting vasculitis when your mother needs a kidney transplant and you could buy her one if you won the OGM which it looks like a sure bet you will do because you have been mowing down the competition at every event except one when you lost to a girl who is too young to even go to the Olympics and then you get the flu right dag nab before the Olympics--nope, nope, nope, just doesn't happen. Maybe on the TV, but in real life, stuff like that just don't happen to real people.
But I'll believe anything so I believe you are very brave.
Oops! Sorry, Piel. I'm blabbin' away while we better get goin' and follow that gopher down that hole or else we'll be late for the Had Matter's disco party.
:chorus: :chorus:
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I think
I believe Irina does have a disease that can be controlled but not cured. I think the reports and media do exaggerate minor setbacks and so people do tend to get cynical as to her real condition. I think the reason she seems to be superskater is not her skating but the INFLATED marks she gets for average somewhat sloppy skating . I like Irina and hope she does well along with Michelle. I want to see both on the podium. Irina is not to blame for corrupt judging but does have a tendency to get upset if she gets the marks she deserves because she really believes she is to get 8s and 9s for PCS marks. Irina does NOT skate a 8 or 9 PCS prograqm. Lets not bash Irina for corrupt judges and judging. Im feeling a big upset coming and Irina is not going to be happy. I just want Michelle and Irina on the podium cause they both deserve it. They worked long and hard and gave a lot to the sport .
I believe Irina does have a disease that can be controlled but not cured. I think the reports and media do exaggerate minor setbacks and so people do tend to get cynical as to her real condition. I think the reason she seems to be superskater is not her skating but the INFLATED marks she gets for average somewhat sloppy skating . I like Irina and hope she does well along with Michelle. I want to see both on the podium. Irina is not to blame for corrupt judging but does have a tendency to get upset if she gets the marks she deserves because she really believes she is to get 8s and 9s for PCS marks. Irina does NOT skate a 8 or 9 PCS prograqm. Lets not bash Irina for corrupt judges and judging. Im feeling a big upset coming and Irina is not going to be happy. I just want Michelle and Irina on the podium cause they both deserve it. They worked long and hard and gave a lot to the sport .
snarky response! PERFECTO!!!
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