Should skaters receive "clean program" bonuses?

[Anna K.]

Perfectly executed programs are a joy to watch; I always feel that such program should be celebrated somehow. What if skaters who perform clean programs (all elements in +GOE) officially received bonus points in amount of, let's say, 10% of total points earned (the amount is open for discussion)?
What do you think about it? Would it have a positive effect on figure skating as a sport? Or, quite contrary, could it have an adverse effect? Why?

 

[gkelly]

It would surely encourage skaters to leave out their most risky elements, to intentionally double jumps later in the freeskate when they're tired, etc.

Especially if the clean program bonus is worth more than the second-half bonus.

You'd also have to define what constitutes "clean" (or what negates it). No negative GOEs for any elements, and no elements that don't count? What about a momentary loss of alignment/stumble without an actual fall between elements?
What about attempting level 4 elements but not getting credit for all features because of, e.g., not holding a spin position long enough or not getting into position quickly enough, not reaching a low enough position in a sitspin or death spiral even though the position as executed is attractive, unclear edge on a required turn in a step sequence, etc.?

Should "clean" or not clean be defined by what looks disruptive to fans or by what the tech panel evaluates?

 

[Karoltyna]

It's complicated. It could stop skaters from doing elements with high base value that even with negative GOE will give them advantage bc the competitors aren't even trying these elements. 4A even with fall can be worth more than 2A with positive GOE. But it could also cause skaters to stop at a "safe" level. And what exactly is "clean program"? No falls? No negative GOE? I think "clean" is more about the impression the viewers get, not about the URs or calls.

 

[lariko]

It is already accounted for in PCS in performance component if clean is visually pleasant, because clean can be underwhelming and positive GoE. No need to double or tripple dip. Stop trying to fudge the rules in favor of poor jumpers. Watch ice dance instead

 

[dorispulaski]

To award properly, all jumps would need to be reviewed IMO

 

[Anna K.]

It's complicated. It could stop skaters from doing elements with high base value that even with negative GOE will give them advantage bc the competitors aren't even trying these elements. 4A even with fall can be worth more than 2A with positive GOE. But it could also cause skaters to stop at a "safe" level. And what exactly is "clean program"? No falls? No negative GOE? I think "clean" is more about the impression the viewers get, not about the URs or calls.

Of course it's complicated, it's figure skating
I'd say it would certainly require no falls and no negative GOE but also more requirements might be needed, like, strong components that refer to the viewers' impression.

What about a momentary loss of alignment/stumble without an actual fall between elements?
What about attempting level 4 elements but not getting credit for all features because of, e.g., not holding a spin position long enough or not getting into position quickly enough, not reaching a low enough position in a sitspin or death spiral even though the position as executed is attractive, unclear edge on a required turn in a step sequence, etc.?

This is the "grey area": some judges/fans will see it as "disruptive" but others will see it as "not disruptive" so I guess it can only be solved by voting. Let's say,a judge who thinks "not disruptive" ticks a box "recommended for the bonus". The bonus is awarded if the majority recommends it. Or, the other way round: a program with no deductions and no negative GOE is automatically recommended for the bonus and the judges either confirm it or fill in their notes, i.e., "there was a disruptive balance loss before the element X".

To award properly, all jumps would need to be reviewed INO

I think it's doable. Why not?

 

[LazyFuzai]

Ofc not.Make no sense.

 

[Anna K.]

Ofc not.Make no sense.

Why? Wouldn't it promote quality?

 

[dorispulaski]

Not without more rigorous review.

Without it, it would leave just another option for prejudiced judging.

A Favored Skater seldom sees review. Therefore his/ her occasional under rotations and occasional bad edges will seldom be called. Such a skater gets additional favoring with a clean skate bonus in cases where their mistakes are not called

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Skaters already get get rewarded for a clean skate- they score higher.

Skaters already get penalised for not having a clean program- deductions, lower GOEs, capped PCS.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Why? Wouldn't it promote quality?

Good GOE already promotes quality.

 

[Anna K.]

Good GOE already promotes quality.

Good GOE promotes quality of a separate element, not quality of program as a whole.

 

[dorispulaski]

Pcs evaluates the program as a whole

 

[Anna K.]

Pcs evaluates the program as a whole

PCS evaluates the program regardless of technical mistakes; i.e., a program with falls may have high PCS.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

PCS evaluates the program regardless of technical mistakes; i.e., a program with falls may have high PCS.

But technical mistakes affect PCS. You're looking for gaps where there are none.

 

[4everchan]

it's already supposed to be rewarded under the Performance/(execution) PCS item...

The problem is that judges do not judge PCS really well, often marking Skating Skills, Composition and Performance more or less the same.

A skater could have great skating skills but a bad performance or a great performance of a very boring Composition etc..

We have mentioned many times that PCS should be judged independently from GOE.... then judges thought they wouldn't have anything to do...

So here's my new suggestion. : give the judges ONLY one of the 3 PCS item to judge. Each judge mark all elements for GOE and get ONE PCS item. That way, we may see Performance rewarded a bit better independently from skating skills. etc

 

[Arigato]

No one should get a bonus for simply doing their job.

 

[4everchan]

No one should get a bonus for simply doing their job.

Ha! Tell this to the CEOs and other executives in the corporate world.

 

[Arigato]

Ha! Tell this to many CEOs and other executives in the corporate world.

I'll let you do that.

 

[4everchan]

I'll let you do that.

yeah, right