Skating as Sport

[Joesitz (RIP)]

While there are a few performances I see as genuinely emotional, I also get emotional when I see figure skating technical executed according to definitions.

Nothing like a clear cut set of circular (prefer serpentine) footwork; Spins that are completely centered; Jumps with defined take-offs and landings. I don't see the need for plus GoEs and maybe not minus GoEs either. This is emotionally uplifting as is a home run in baseball.

Are you not emotionally involved in the Tech as you are in the Program Components?

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Absolutely, I definitely am. While I can enjoy a flawed performance, a clean performance of high technical calibre is obviously more thrilling.

 

[janetfan]

Kozuka skated an LP at one of the GP's this season that knocked my socks off. It was not the most theatrical performance of the year but the way he performed and wove the elements together so well was beautiful for me to see.

I think it was my favorite performance of the season because of how well he presented the technical elements while maintaining such great flow throughout the program..

I did not seen Chan at Canadian Natls but some have said that was also an outstanding performance.

Neither of these two skate with the outward expression we see from Dai or Plushy at times but at their best they are showing an art to presenting the required elements.

How did "art" find it's way into my post :think:

Think of it more as in the "art of masonry" or whatever and just being very accomplished on a technical level.

I do like seeing great technical skating but think that is harder to attain under CoP (for pogue and gkelly ).

I think Dai was the best skater of the Men in Vancouver but he was placed third.

Did Evan and Plushy really do a better job of presenting the technical elements?

Perhaps, and maybe it is my old 6.0 blood that favored Dai at the Olympics.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

6.0 didn't favour falls, though. It's unlikely Dai would've been on the podium after his LP.

Here's Chan at Nationals

 

[janetfan]

6.0 didn't favour falls, though. It's unlikely Dai would've been on the podium after his LP.

Here's Chan at Nationals

Wow, thanks for the clip! By far the best performance I have ever seen from Patrick.

If he skates like that at Worlds he will blow away the field. I did say IF and if we are talking about sport it matters how he skates when it counts.

Good practice skates shouldn't count.

 

[blue dog]

Of course, Joe! There is beauty in precise execution of elements. That being said, elements tried for the first time--even if commentators get excited and gushy, do not get me emotional, unless the element just flows. Lipinski's triple loop/triple loop didn't excite/move me as much as Inoue/Baldwin's throw triple axel.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Adding to enhance Hernando's experience of the art and sport of figure skating, here is Patrick Chan's LP at Canadian Nationals 2011 as commentated by Kurt Browning and Tracy Wilson.

This should be the standard to measure against for a while to come. Meanwhile I'm hoping for a video of an equally excellent or better performance at Worlds without the audio or other glitches for my repeated viewing pleasure.

 

[mot]

definition of sport: physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

So when I see figure skating as a sport, I am not concerned with each elements and their executions, but how they are constructed and laid out to score and WIN. For me, technique and excellence and beauty in execution of elements somehow belong to 'art' category.

I much prefer watching competitive skating than shows. When I watch a skater perform in a competition, I am perhaps more concentrating on how beautifully, interestingly, entertainingly, etc, it is executed, and how I am affected emotionally - excited, made to smile or laugh, brought to tears, etc - a bit similar to when I watch theatres and dance performances, or listen to music.

Then, once competition's over (and I must be one of a few fans who do not often disagree with the result, as I am happy to admit my ignorance in many aspects of figure skating as a sport and take what judges decide), I frantically check protocols, replay videos, and try to decipher / understand / analyse what really went on from the 'sport' perspective.

I am lucky, as I can enjoy the same performance twice from the different view points.

When the changes in rules and regulations were announced last summer, and I discovered a big changes in spins and added restrictions on level features, I spent many fun hours wondering how my favourite, Daisuke, for whom spins are nemesis, was to overcome this new obstacle for him to repeat the success of the last season. (Never did I predict he was going for a flying layback though.)

For me, that is what sport is all about; strategy to win and how to execute the strategy.

Yes, I am a bloody nerd, and proud to be so!

 

[dorispulaski]

^^^^^
Me too, compulsive running through protocols and all

I truly love a well skated technical program. I love seeing a perfectly done 4t3t, and a 3A that isn't scratchy, a triple combo with more height on the 2nd jump than the first ! When everything is perfect, the technical becomes art. I think of Brian Boitano's 1988 Olympic program, and of Midori Ito's 1989 LP with the first triple axel for a lady, but in some ways better her 1988 Olympic SP & LP. Yu Na's soaring triple/triples are really wonderful.

I'm afraid Tara never excited me in that way either, blue dog. Her jumps were too tiny to be awe-inspiring. Inoue / Baldwin's SP at the Olympics with the triple axel was wonderful for me in just the way blue dog described.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Much appreciate the comments thus far. There is an Art to Technical Skating as much as there is an Art to Diving. When Jump Landings show that sweeping flow out (not unlike the small splash left at the conclusion of a dive), it's like the skater has mastered his element(s). A program of Clean defined elements is an art in itself.

To me, the Art of Performance is totally combined with the use of MUSIC that is a major part of performance otherwise what is the point of using music? A skater must have musicality, and he should be judged on that talent as well as his technical. If it moves one emotionally, so be it but that is not being judged. Maybe it should, but people have different psyches for emotions.

 

[Olympia]

^^^^^
Me too, compulsive running through protocols and all

I truly love a well skated technical program. I love seeing a perfectly done 4t3t, and a 3A that isn't scratchy, a triple combo with more height on the 2nd jump than the first ! When everything is perfect, the technical becomes art. I think of Brian Boitano's 1988 Olympic program, and of Midori Ito's 1989 LP with the first triple axel for a lady, but in some ways better her 1988 Olympic SP & LP. Yu Na's soaring triple/triples are really wonderful.

I'm afraid Tara never excited me in that way either, blue dog. Her jumps were too tiny to be awe-inspiring. Inoue / Baldwin's SP at the Olympics with the triple axel was wonderful for me in just the way blue dog described.

I have felt the same way about Tara. A friend of mine used to say that you couldn't fit a piece of paper under her jumps. Where she chiefly impressed me was the steadiness of her nerves, which is certainly an important skill.

By contrast, the size of YuNa's jumps, where the second triple can almost seem higher than the first, are breathtaking even to someone who can't tell a lutz from a salchow. Midori also amazes in that way. I remember seeing one of her triple axels and thinking that she seemed to be climbing up the air. When I found out how tall she actually was (only about 4 foot 10 inches, I seem to recall), her achievements became even more astounding.

 

[antmanb]

Out of interest, under 6.0 I always heard the comentators say that in jump combinations, the aim is to get both jumps to be the same size. I remember Robin Cousins gushing over Christina Czako's 3T/3T and the fact the second jump was as big as, if not bigger than the first jump. Is there anything in the COP about this?

Ant

 

[Violet Bliss]

I remember Robin Cousins gushing over Christina Czako's 3T/3T and the fact the second jump was as big as, if not bigger than the first jump. Is there anything in the COP about this?

Ant

I have heard that comment repeatedly about Patrick Chan's combination jumps, most recently from Tracy Wilson at Canadian Nationals. I didn't realize this is 6.0 thing.

 

[Krislite]

Out of interest, under 6.0 I always heard the comentators say that in jump combinations, the aim is to get both jumps to be the same size. I remember Robin Cousins gushing over Christina Czako's 3T/3T and the fact the second jump was as big as, if not bigger than the first jump. Is there anything in the COP about this?

Ant

No. In fact, one of the big complaints about CoP when it comes to technical marks, is that it doesn't make a distinction over combos vs. solo jumps. For example, two separate triple loops would have the same base value as a 3Loop+3Loop combination!

 

[Violet Bliss]

No. In fact, one of the big complaints about CoP when it comes to technical marks, is that it doesn't make a distinction over combos vs. solo jumps. For example, two separate triple loops would have the same base value as a 3Loop+3Loop combination!

Height is a quality, not a jump qualification reflected in the BV, with or without combo bonus. Having the second jump as high as or higher than the first will likely be appreciated by the judges and earn GOE points, since jump height itself is a bullet for GOE.

 

[Layfan]

Absolutely, I definitely am. While I can enjoy a flawed performance, a clean performance of high technical calibre is obviously more thrilling.

To me it depends. There are some skaters who will never thrill me no matter how clean they are. And there are some who thrilled me even with falls, like Sasha. For me it's not so much whether a skate is completely perfect but whether a skater has true highlights, whether technical or articistic.
It's a total thrill for me to watch Yuna's triple-triples. The speed and height and technique for me are breathaking. Alissa's spins are breathaking and so were Sasha's (usually) and the flexibility during her spirals. I usually also loved Michelle Kwan and Sasha's footwork. Midori's ITO's jumps in general always a highlight. Those are the kind of things I remember. With clean skates, it is thrilling to watch skaters gain momentum and confidence and really be able to put it out there but there are also clean skates out there that are so meh I can barely remember them.

But to answer Joe's question, the answer I suppose is definitely yes - I'm completely emotionally invested in watching how well each skater executes the jumps and other elements. I don't think the two sides can be separated so neatly though. I think a skater can be great at moving to music or whatever but if they don't have the technical goods to skate cleanly and with precision and sharply the skater won't shine. Kim Yuna said during a recent interview that she thinks the emotion and artistry comes first from having solid technique. I've always thought that about her and about Michelle Kwan.
Also, for me a perfect spin, or a gorgeous russian split or amazingly precise footwork - there's something artistic about that. How you put it all together is what matters of course, but having the athletic talent to do those things helps you be more artistic.

 

[miki88]

Both the artistic and technical aspects of the sport are important. However, I do feel that there has been an over-emphasis on the technical aspects of the sport in recent years. It probably has to do with how the CoP forces fans to view skating through microscopic lens. Performances can no longer be truly appreciated at face value. One has to go check the protocals at a later time.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

miki88 and layfan - The nitty gritty aspects of the CoP have shown that the two part (tech/pc) are very much separated. Each segment is specialized whereas in the 6.0 system, they meshed into one beautiful skate. That's what LaBianca writes about. I tend to agree with her.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

miki88 and layfan - The nitty gritty aspects of the CoP have shown that the two part (tech/pc) are very much separated. Each segment is specialized whereas in the 6.0 system, they meshed into one beautiful skate. That's what LaBianca writes about. I tend to agree with her.

This is why I continue to loath and despise CoP. A perfect skate is just that - perfect combo of artistic and technical prowess. And not necessarily the heardest jumps or footwork but a program that is so seamless, so emotional and simply on point that you remember the skate not a particular element. Brian and Yags olympic skates, Kwan's Red Violin, DivaKwara's 04 world, Irina's 05 worlds, and pretty much whenever S&Z hit the ice are immediate thoughts but I know there are more floating around... Gosh, how I miss the flawless skate... those skates that made everyone understand just how cool this sport actually is... the good ol' days...

 

[Tonichelle]

mmm but at some point sport has to win out, and like it or not the more difficult the program the "better" it is in SPORT. The judging system is tweaking to try and get it to where you still have to be clean - but without discouraging the athletes for going for the more difficult programs.