Yuna 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dYCpF0uQxU
Mao 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5G3Ns2i86U
They were 16. Under IJS system.
South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging
- Thread starter avantgardener
- Start date
Yuna 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dYCpF0uQxU
Mao 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5G3Ns2i86U
They were 16. Under IJS system.
It is an effort to take her gold away or give another to Yuna. Just because it won't succeed probably in doing that doesn't make it something other than it is. An obvious attempt to strip sotnikova of her title and give it to Yuna. they are trying to prove all the judges were corrupt! They want the hug investigated. They want alla s investigated. They want to create a situation Where isu demands like fig sotnikova give her medal to Yuna.
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- Jan 29, 2011
No offence to anyone of you in particular, but some posters have literally made hundreds of posts on this issue. Life is meant to be lived. That's all I'm saying.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
I honestly think that if the ISU investigates and finds some foul play it will be Kostner who will win the gold and not Kim.
Kim's fans and federations need to understand that it is not like in 2010 where most of the ladies made some errors (Asada popping the 3T, Rochette with some bad landings).
Kim didn't compete a lot in the last quad and it caught up with her-her spins were mostly L3, as well as her footwork.
Adelina was overscored on PCS, but both Mao and Carolina were underscored (someone pls explain how Kostner got a slightly lower score than Kim)...
It Should have been Caro,Yuna, Adelina.
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- Mar 23, 2010
according to this it's not http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...lyzing-Sotnikova-and-Kim-s-footwork-in-the-FS
It's perplexing that those who defend the judging and insist its innocence would be so against any kind of probe or investigation which will 1) give what they want (direct evidence of fraud) or 2) exonerate the panel if their belief turns out to be right. I mean, they have been asking for such evidence for a long time..
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- Mar 8, 2006
I think it's a revisionist perspective. The KSU and the ISU were pressured into doing this at the last possible minute. I don't think they wanted to do it, but there was so much pressure within Korea both from the people and the politicians so they had to do something to save its face. From what I gather, there were demonstrations that called for action and counting down D-4, D-3, D-2..... to 30-day period.
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- Nov 12, 2013
I hope NOT EVERYBODY here believes these "first post" posters who just *happen* to drop by with more nuggets ("even Russians think Adelina's gold was tainted", seriously?? ALL the comments from Russians on the internet in English that I've seen were angry at Korean attacks on Adelina and supported Adelina, but perhaps Russian speaking Russians act and think differently from Russians who know some English!). This filing is to add fuel to the fire to strip Adelina of her gold and award it to Yuna. 
GOE and PCS are judgment calls. The judges are given factors to consider, but if it were a hard and fast rule to award based on those factors, they wouldn't need judges. The technical panel could award GOE. PCS is also a judgment call. What judge could truly be objective in rescoring these performances? And even the technical panel is allowed some leeway. We hear all the time about some judge who is particularly strict or others who give the benefit of the doubt. If cheating is found, ban the cheating judges for life. But the event cannot be rescored in a way that would replicate fair judging in real time.
Whatever happens, if the complaint just gets buried without any clarifications it will be a sad day for figure skating...
I honestly don't get why people are arguing over the gold medal being stripped away from Adelina
If judging was corrupt then her medal isn't deserving, is it? It's not the matter of whether Yuna should get the gold or not
If there had been some kind of fixing and inflation specifically designed to benefit skaters from a particular nation, then the result is not legitimate. But the goal is not to take her medal away because we all hate Adelina! The goal of this whole inquiry is to make sure we have a shred of integrity left in this sports so who cares if this is an attempt to strip the medal away? Need for an investigation still stands. Whether Yuna was less expressive/slower/lackluster than usual or not, i think there's got to be some investigation regarding Adelina's flutz and UR not being called and it's good that the korean fed decided to do something about it.
I honestly don't get why people are arguing over the gold medal being stripped away from Adelina
If judging was corrupt then her medal isn't deserving, is it? It's not the matter of whether Yuna should get the gold or not
If there had been some kind of fixing and inflation specifically designed to benefit skaters from a particular nation, then the result is not legitimate. But the goal is not to take her medal away because we all hate Adelina! The goal of this whole inquiry is to make sure we have a shred of integrity left in this sports so who cares if this is an attempt to strip the medal away? Need for an investigation still stands. Whether Yuna was less expressive/slower/lackluster than usual or not, i think there's got to be some investigation regarding Adelina's flutz and UR not being called and it's good that the korean fed decided to do something about it.
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- Mar 31, 2013
In any case nobody can investigate Adelina's flutz or UR's.
An appeal by a federation can only be made over their own athletes only-which means that if the KSU appealed Yuna's results-only her skate can be reviewed, and only her score can be adjusted.
ETA:
Here's a case of the ISU against an Ukrainian judge which asked the British judge at the 2012 worlds (pairs) to score the UKR pair high.
An intresting read:
http://static.isu.org/media/108914/2010-10-kruglova-final-decision-30052013.pdf
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Is there any lawyer who can translate it to normal people's language?
Thanks in advance.
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- Feb 13, 2014
Japan has a strong federation but they couldn't do anything for Daisuke at 2012 worlds either.
that what the computer is supposed to be used for.
it comes across on high definition tv & even phones.
that why people & public sees it.
but wait cant tell the truth about skaters/teams.
why bother marking off , just tell public how high score is and who judges/and skating forums prefer to win /medal.
why have competition nowadays. oh wait the money, sponsorship, deals they make with tv, sponsors, shows etc.
who cares about public anyway, they don't watch, or buy products of sponsors, . Beside they are ignorant and don't care about sport and we can fool them anyway.
wait (they don't watch in u.s, or go to shows much anymore) . we skating public, pros , skating association don't know why.
it comes across on high definition tv & even phones.
that why people & public sees it.
but wait cant tell the truth about skaters/teams.
why bother marking off , just tell public how high score is and who judges/and skating forums prefer to win /medal.
why have competition nowadays. oh wait the money, sponsorship, deals they make with tv, sponsors, shows etc.
who cares about public anyway, they don't watch, or buy products of sponsors, . Beside they are ignorant and don't care about sport and we can fool them anyway.
wait (they don't watch in u.s, or go to shows much anymore) . we skating public, pros , skating association don't know why.
Kruglova was suspended for a year. I'm sure she will be back judging again. Remember that name!
gmyers, please, please, please stop.
Investigating possible wrongdoing is exactly what the petition seeks, not taking away anyone's medal.
That said, the ISU will just smirk, deliver high fives all around, and toss the complaint in the trash basket.
Tread lightly, there are a lot of Korean sponsored money on the table. Same for Japan.
If they high five the wrong person, ISU can start selling baked goods to Europe for coins. Pretend to investigate instead of responding let them eat cake would be wiser.
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- Feb 23, 2014
I was talking about remedying the medal situation. Plenty can be done to fix the officiating. The question is what will the ISU do?
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2011
I think Yuna is pleased with her skating and even the result. If there were several federations decrying the meteoric rise of the pcs/goe scores for Adelina and Julia, I could get behind that. Adelina did things technically Yuna did not. All the detractors are 6.0 era skaters on the record as hating IJS, and some very vocal ones like Dick Button. I think given the rules, Adelina was the superior IJS technician in the short and long. We all feel the PCS was inflated for her this season as with Julia. Other skaters are much more "skaterly" and beautiful to watch. personally, I like art over sport and think that Caro had the most awesome SP. I liked YuNa's SP. A lovely goodbye. And YuNa to some was always overscored in PCS. Adelina's LP was very different and modern. I think YuNa would have won the gold with her 2013 World's performances. Watch them again. She was much more committed. YuNa wanted to come back but also clearly just wanted it over. She was not robbed.
Many americans loved Kwan's Lyra Angelica and feel tara robbed her. I do not, though I seldom watch Tara's programs from Nagano but have watched Lyra 50 times. Frank told Mi chelle she was not robbed and that people would say so (her popularity was huge by then here in USA after the sordid Tonya mess. ) He told her she skated very well but Tara skated better. Here again, the technical aspects were what got the judges and she skated with very good and fairly mature presentation. It was close. In a subjective sport, someone is always unhappy. Apparently no one here thinks Julia's placement Robbed Ashley. Ashley has beautiful presentation and inho deserves higher PCS. She is very detailed and Samson and Delilah was very lovd in it's first season. Ashley melted down at us nationals, letting grace the jumper and also a beautiful woman on the ice, go ahead. Even Mirai outskated her. This looks to have affected Ash's standing with the ISU judges. Ashley could have done a triple axel and likely would still be placed in same spot.
Polina Edmunds does a great SP. But she is so gangly...she did very well. Watch Mae Berenice Meite. This girl if she keeps improving should be a factor with her sheer athletic attack. But they will not like her because of her body type. She may do triple axels but they want a mao body, not a harding type body. Plus France is not much of a skating power, having success only with Joubert and ice dancers. Plus, they are racist. mae Berenice is not packaged well. No ice princesss, they will hold her down, and I predict she will work her butt off to become an amazing athletic skater. She has the goods. But she will be up against Gracie, the Russian babies (Radionova is the next Russian Nova to hit us_, and whatever Asian phenom takes the lead with Yuna, Mao, and Akiko gone.
In 2018, Whoever skates for Korea will be marked very generously.
Too bad Kazakstan did not file a complaint last year because Denis Ten skated so much better than Chan. No one seemed to care much. He doesn't have a huge internet fan base like YuNa, THE MOST BELOVED WOMAN IN KOREA. I HONETLY DO NOT THINK VERY MANY kOREANS CAN BE OBJECTIVE ABOUT Yuna. I was very please with her SP. It was as lovely as she ever skated, and poignant. She also skated her LP well. But something was missing-call it attack, which surprised me. Still, she was very nervous I think, and I am glad she did not fall. Silver is very good. So Maybe the technical specialists missed some less than perfect jumps with Sotnikova?
No one is going to strip her of the medal. The side by side comparisons I have seen pretty much tell the story. yuNa is much more pleasant to watch in the LP. I agree her skating is prettier. I dislike that Sotnikova LP. I could much more easily take the planned overscoring of Julia because she is much morepleasant to watch, and her LP really was a great program, and it grew on me all season.
I found it much more disturbing what was happening in Ukraine as the Olympics waned, and NBC was not even covering it from Sochi. But that is politics and not for this thread, however disturbing it was. Shame on NBC.
Many americans loved Kwan's Lyra Angelica and feel tara robbed her. I do not, though I seldom watch Tara's programs from Nagano but have watched Lyra 50 times. Frank told Mi chelle she was not robbed and that people would say so (her popularity was huge by then here in USA after the sordid Tonya mess. ) He told her she skated very well but Tara skated better. Here again, the technical aspects were what got the judges and she skated with very good and fairly mature presentation. It was close. In a subjective sport, someone is always unhappy. Apparently no one here thinks Julia's placement Robbed Ashley. Ashley has beautiful presentation and inho deserves higher PCS. She is very detailed and Samson and Delilah was very lovd in it's first season. Ashley melted down at us nationals, letting grace the jumper and also a beautiful woman on the ice, go ahead. Even Mirai outskated her. This looks to have affected Ash's standing with the ISU judges. Ashley could have done a triple axel and likely would still be placed in same spot.
Polina Edmunds does a great SP. But she is so gangly...she did very well. Watch Mae Berenice Meite. This girl if she keeps improving should be a factor with her sheer athletic attack. But they will not like her because of her body type. She may do triple axels but they want a mao body, not a harding type body. Plus France is not much of a skating power, having success only with Joubert and ice dancers. Plus, they are racist. mae Berenice is not packaged well. No ice princesss, they will hold her down, and I predict she will work her butt off to become an amazing athletic skater. She has the goods. But she will be up against Gracie, the Russian babies (Radionova is the next Russian Nova to hit us_, and whatever Asian phenom takes the lead with Yuna, Mao, and Akiko gone.
In 2018, Whoever skates for Korea will be marked very generously.
Too bad Kazakstan did not file a complaint last year because Denis Ten skated so much better than Chan. No one seemed to care much. He doesn't have a huge internet fan base like YuNa, THE MOST BELOVED WOMAN IN KOREA. I HONETLY DO NOT THINK VERY MANY kOREANS CAN BE OBJECTIVE ABOUT Yuna. I was very please with her SP. It was as lovely as she ever skated, and poignant. She also skated her LP well. But something was missing-call it attack, which surprised me. Still, she was very nervous I think, and I am glad she did not fall. Silver is very good. So Maybe the technical specialists missed some less than perfect jumps with Sotnikova?
No one is going to strip her of the medal. The side by side comparisons I have seen pretty much tell the story. yuNa is much more pleasant to watch in the LP. I agree her skating is prettier. I dislike that Sotnikova LP. I could much more easily take the planned overscoring of Julia because she is much morepleasant to watch, and her LP really was a great program, and it grew on me all season.
I found it much more disturbing what was happening in Ukraine as the Olympics waned, and NBC was not even covering it from Sochi. But that is politics and not for this thread, however disturbing it was. Shame on NBC.
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