Symbolises how in modern skating Russians can absolutely not win singles events legitimately to people. It's all corruption and fraud and never ever legitimate to many people. What's not corrupt for Americans like Inman or Koreans like Rhee or Japan with the judge hugging hanyu is for Russia! Russians winning is not acceptable in so many ways.
South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging
- Thread starter avantgardener
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That's what I'd like to happen as a result of this. An increase in transparency and accountability and possible changes of the scoring system that facilitates public understanding and confidence in the judges and the sport.
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- Jan 10, 2014
You got that right. It is fashionable to hate on the Russians these days.
Eh. Realistically, unless figure skating is a lot bigger than I imagine it to be, it's pretty much impossible to remove conflict of interest or other potential shenanigans from judging when selecting the judging panel. Either the judge is from a relatively large (i.e. well-represented) federation in which case there will likely be a skater from the judge's own country (obvious conflict of interest), or the judge is from a smaller federation without a skater in which case he would undoubtedly receive pressure for favorable judging from other federations for a quid pro quo.
The important issue is that regardless of wherever the judges are from, they should apply the established rules for judging accurately and evenly. If there is evidence that some skaters were unfairly penalized or miraculously had a string of nearly all +3 GOEs at Vancouver, or one or more of the judges were significantly looser/harsher than the others on certain skaters, then by all means bring it up. Conflict of interest does not necessarily mean that judges will be corrupt or unfair in their scoring -- but when there are significant judging deviations from the established rules, especially when it's enough to affect the skater rankings, then conflict of interest does become a prime consideration. If there weren't significant judging deviations at Vancouver, then it means that despite conflicts of interest, the judges still maintained their objectivity, and there's no need to protest (i.e. no cause). Such was not the case at Sochi.
Although a lot of the attention has been on which federations the judges are from, I think that attention is sort of misplaced (sort of like saying that Adelina won because she had a more technical skate -- which completely papers over how the judging influences the scores, else Mao would've won the FS). The attention should be on whether or not there were any judging inconsistencies. Unfortunately, because the system is specifically set up so that judging is anonymous and the given avenue for protesting is difficult (filing the protest within half an hour of an event), making it difficult for the judging to be reviewed, I think it's likely that the Koreans have little other recourse but to ask for the composition of the judging panel to be reviewed in lieu of the judging itself. I'm sure they would much more prefer that the judges publicly document why the scores were given the way they were, but it seems like the system is set up specifically to avoid accountability.
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- Dec 29, 2013
@Vanshilar
*All valid points and ITA
I'm all for fair scoring and really agree with the need for transparency and for scores to be explained better on the protocols. I'd also like a better selection process of judges. That doesn't mean I can't laugh at the irony of the KSU calling out the Russians for doing the exact same thing they did four years earlier. Whether it was fair judging or not does not remove the comical value.
I honestly expect scores to settle down and I for one don't hold up the Olympic results as anything symbolic of the overall heartbeat of the sport. It's just way too much hype for me. I personally enjoy the road to the Olympics much more. Speaking of which it all begins again in a few days!!
*All valid points and ITA
I'm all for fair scoring and really agree with the need for transparency and for scores to be explained better on the protocols. I'd also like a better selection process of judges. That doesn't mean I can't laugh at the irony of the KSU calling out the Russians for doing the exact same thing they did four years earlier. Whether it was fair judging or not does not remove the comical value.
I honestly expect scores to settle down and I for one don't hold up the Olympic results as anything symbolic of the overall heartbeat of the sport. It's just way too much hype for me. I personally enjoy the road to the Olympics much more. Speaking of which it all begins again in a few days!!
Actually, that Rhee woman is reputed to be anti-Yuna. She's known for speaking against her and switching back and forth when media attention turns around. Even with the Sochi incident, she quickly spoke for Sotnikova, and when technical speculations were pointed out one by one, she kinda retracted and kinda turned around.
For allegations on KSU money and possible 2018 home advantage... if only they bothered to benefit their athletes, that would be helpful. KSU is known for suppressing superstar emergence that can get out of their control. An influential who can speak against the current system they are feeding off of is a disturbance, as proven by several occasions where officials were caught selling out athletes for placements and for betting. Speculations were made that some have been trying and are trying to build spots in the international panels, for personal vanity. While Yuna has been a good campaign face for KSU, they've been known to be passively hostile against her, as her presence shines spotlights on their incompetence.
BTW, I'm awkwardly happy that this means that FS home advantage is less likely to be prominent in 2018. On the side, Japanese feds are proactive, sometimes a little aggressive working for their athletes, but I don't expect them to cross the line like what happened in Sochi.
For allegations on KSU money and possible 2018 home advantage... if only they bothered to benefit their athletes, that would be helpful. KSU is known for suppressing superstar emergence that can get out of their control. An influential who can speak against the current system they are feeding off of is a disturbance, as proven by several occasions where officials were caught selling out athletes for placements and for betting. Speculations were made that some have been trying and are trying to build spots in the international panels, for personal vanity. While Yuna has been a good campaign face for KSU, they've been known to be passively hostile against her, as her presence shines spotlights on their incompetence.
BTW, I'm awkwardly happy that this means that FS home advantage is less likely to be prominent in 2018. On the side, Japanese feds are proactive, sometimes a little aggressive working for their athletes, but I don't expect them to cross the line like what happened in Sochi.
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- Mar 23, 2010
speaking of home advantage.. i highly doubt korea can even produce a medal contender at that time..
hwell: it's like every yuna fan's dream to see korean skating improving in the next four years so that yuna will never be bothered again...and those KSU officials should do something by demanding the korean govt. about building an ice rink for figure skaters..until now it is still non existent.. they're good at photo ops at the airport but KSU is a joke.. hwell:
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- Feb 13, 2014
KSU doesn't have ice rink for figure skaters? I don't get it?speaking of home advantage.. i highly doubt korea can even produce a medal contender at that time..
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- Mar 23, 2010
nope.. they have one ice rink but they have to share it with the rest of the short trackers.. ice hockey players.. (this is when the whole yuna and her lovelife started..
) etc.. they divided the time for training.. and when it is raining things are very bad.. like you could see raindrops falling from the roof on the ice..
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- Feb 13, 2014
nope.. they have one ice rink but they have to share it with the rest of the short trackers.. ice hockey players.. (this is when the whole yuna and her lovelife started..
And here I thought Korea is a rich country, I don't get it at all. They ONLY have ONE ice rink? The whole of Korea?
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- Dec 29, 2013
http://www.korea4expats.com/article-ice-skating-rinks-seoul.html
With 5 indoor rinks alone in Seoul I'd imagine coaches can book ice in the off hours not unlike we do at my rink.
With 5 indoor rinks alone in Seoul I'd imagine coaches can book ice in the off hours not unlike we do at my rink.
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- Mar 23, 2010
yup..
strange isn't? but you see that ice rink was for the short trackers.. you have to remember that korea is known for their speed skating and short track.. it's only when yuna came along..True. Korean short track skater, speed skater, ice hockey player, figure skaters all share ONE rink. 3-4hrs of training slot a day per respective sports. Yuna was one of them. Fans are joking that's why Yuna is strong at indecent ice quality.
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- Jul 29, 2013
Actually Yuna Kim talked about building a figure skating rink many times ago but that KSU declined many times... I rmb Yuna proposing about building one back in 2011 and willing to pay for it. I rmb something like that but have forgotten the details... anyways, when Yuna came back from Sochi, a person asked the president of KSU about building a fs rink and Yuna's face went ... 
Actually Yuna Kim talked about building a figure skating rink many times ago but that KSU declined many times... I rmb Yuna proposing about building one back in 2011 and willing to pay for it. I rmb something like that but have forgotten the details... anyways, when Yuna came back from Sochi, a person asked the president of KSU about building a fs rink and Yuna's face went ...
Yuna and co. asked the Korean governmental organization such as City of Seoul for the rink, but got declined. The official who was asked recently about any future rink plan is a minister of the Korean government, not the president of KSU.
My understanding is KSU can lobby for a new rink, but they do not have the means to build one by themselves.
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- Jul 26, 2003
http://www.korea4expats.com/article-ice-skating-rinks-seoul.html
There are quite a few rinks in the Seoul area. However, they are not exclusively for figure skating, but that is true of most indoor rinks everywhere. You have figure skating, speed skating, ice hockey, broomball, speed skating, and even curling sharing a facility. In Bedford, Quebec, for example, the facility used to be (and maybe still is) a seed and feed store in the summer. Mr. Ski used to play hockey for St. Albans, VT, in the Quebec Eastern Townships league, and we saw a variety of rinks back in the day. All of them, both in VT, USA, and in adjacent part of Quebec, Canada, were multipurpose. If you wanted to rent an hour that was not already committed, they would rent it to you. In fact, the club even once paid the high price to rent the Montreal Forum at two A.M. just to have skated on the same ice as the Montreal Canadiens would skate on during the day-they could have played broomball on it instead; once you rent the slot, it was yours, provided you weren't going to damage the ice unduly.
Rinks are expensive to run. If there are not enough figure skaters to fill them, hours will be sold to other uses.
There are quite a few rinks in the Seoul area. However, they are not exclusively for figure skating, but that is true of most indoor rinks everywhere. You have figure skating, speed skating, ice hockey, broomball, speed skating, and even curling sharing a facility. In Bedford, Quebec, for example, the facility used to be (and maybe still is) a seed and feed store in the summer. Mr. Ski used to play hockey for St. Albans, VT, in the Quebec Eastern Townships league, and we saw a variety of rinks back in the day. All of them, both in VT, USA, and in adjacent part of Quebec, Canada, were multipurpose. If you wanted to rent an hour that was not already committed, they would rent it to you. In fact, the club even once paid the high price to rent the Montreal Forum at two A.M. just to have skated on the same ice as the Montreal Canadiens would skate on during the day-they could have played broomball on it instead; once you rent the slot, it was yours, provided you weren't going to damage the ice unduly.
Rinks are expensive to run. If there are not enough figure skaters to fill them, hours will be sold to other uses.
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- Jul 29, 2013
@dorispulaski: Thank you for sharing the link. Though I have to say that it still leaves a question why KSU would decline such a request. KSU viewed it as an excess, perhaps? I thought there were lots of people skating in Korea these days. I guess I had an exaggerated impression.
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