South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging | Page 38 | Golden Skate

South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

Photoshoped pictures are the reality of today, which is always manipulation in one or another way.
Mostly, these visual effects are harmless from journalistic point of view but sometimes people get more sensitive about it than they usually are. Here, we have one of those occasions.

There are different types of image manipulation. Some manipulate images for enhancement or to make them look better but not deviating from the original. Some manipulate/edit images to twist facts or make a different story. Why is it harmless? The entire point of that article is to "enhance" one skater's capabilities while making the other seem inferior. That's lying to the public.

I commented about this article because someone used it as a reference to defend Adelina's win. That's not being sensitive. There are objective ways to defend her OGM.
 
The criteria #2 did say arms, but also head and torso, for 1/3 of stsq, and that is where I find Yuna lacking. In general, with the waving of the arms, you can stand still and maintain your balance,especially at the level of elite skaters. Arm movements do not significantly affect the balance of the main body core, unlike off-center torso and head displacement.

Yes arm movements absolute do affect it when you are constantly using them on different levels and in changes of position, as she did in that sequence. Try doing a twizzle while your arms are going above your shoulders. Use of head and torso is not required at all in the rules. It says and/or.

there are 3 more Criteria for Level 4 that are unanswered.

No there aren't. She had 3 different combinations of 3 difficult turns. The rules required 2, so she exceeded it. The other criteria is rotations in both direction for 1/3 of the pattern each, which she does clearly have.
 
Yes arm movements absolute do affect it when you are constantly using them on different levels and in changes of position, as she did in that sequence. Try doing a twizzle while your arms are going above your shoulders. Use of head and torso is not required at all in the rules. It says and/or.



No there aren't. She had 3 different combinations of 3 difficult turns. The rules required 2, so she exceeded it. The other criteria is rotations in both direction for 1/3 of the pattern each, which she does clearly have.

The Rule mentions all 3, arms, head & torso, Yuna is taking a great risk to miss Level 4 stsq if she used mostly her arm movements to fulfill the BALANCE DIFFICULTY criteria. Comparing the top 3, Adelina, Yuna and Caro, it is very obvious that Adelina and Caro used arms, head and torso ALOT for their stsq, for at least 1/3 of duration. Caro's stsq is the best of the 3. She bent forward, backwards, sideways, there was full (moderate is for Level 3) upper body movement, she left no doubt about that and she did a great variety of the turns and steps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkTk7dg-cLc&ntz=1

Of course you can state your opinion, that Yuna's arm movements alone fulfill that Feature #2 criteria, even though the Rules mentioned the other upper body parts, but that is only an opinion. The Tech Panel might have considered her arm movements moderate and insufficient in providing the balancing challenge and they do have a case. Caro's and Adelina's stsq left it without doubt that #2 was met.

Again, many do not even realize that there are 4 Features in total that determine Level 4 stsq, and Features 2,3,4 were never properly broken down and analyzed, only Feature 1, Complexity, was discussed in greater detail. Based on Yuna meeting #1, they insist that there was improper judgment of her stsq. Unfortunately, this opinion has proliferated all over the internet. All 4 of the following criteria need to be met to attain Level 4 stsq, not just #1. The other 3 Features are as important. #3 is where I feel Yuna came up short, and she was awarded Level 3 for incorporating 3 Features.

From another site:

http://www.skatingaheadofthecurve.com/StepSequences.html


2 of the following Features for Level 2, 3 for Level 3, 4 for Level 4

1) Simple variety (Level 2), variety (Level 3), complexity (Level 4) of turns and steps throughout (compulsory)
2) Rotations (turns, steps) in either direction (L&R) with full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern
in total for each rotational direction
3) Moderate (full for Level 4) use of upper body
4) Quick changes of rotational direction executed with turns and steps

Use of the upper body

Moderate Upper Body Movement: The upper body consists of arms, head and torso. “Modest” means the visible use of two of these three parts of the upper body together while doing steps/turns/free skating movements (3 or more times distributed through the sequence).

Full Upper Body Movement: “Full” means the visible use of all three parts of the upper body together while doing steps/turns/free skating movements (3 or more times distributed through the sequence).
 
LOL.

Those rules are from 2008. They have not been the rules for over 4 seasons now.

LOL.
 
LOL.

Those rules are from 2008. They have not been the rules for over 4 seasons now.

LOL.

Perhaps you can point us to the PUBLISHED rules that support your contention that arm movements alone = FULL upper body movements, and when performed for 1/3 are enough to merit Level 4 under #3? Or to a Level 4 step sequence performance that had mostly arm, not head or torso movements?
 
I really don't know why this is even up for debate. Yuna obviously had a great step sequence. I haven't heard anyone argue Adelina's ss was particularly good.
 
Sure, I will do the work for you - http://static.isu.org/media/108107/1790-sptc-sov_levdiff_2013-2014.pdf

Page 9 - Use of upper body movements means the visible use for a combined total of at least 1/3 of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, head and torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core.

So they mentioned arms, head and torso in the rules and both Adelina and Caro DID use arms, head and torso, but in your opinion, only arm movements would suffice for Yuna to attain Level 4? :rolleye: So what is the difference between "moderate" (Level 3) upper body movement versus "FULL" (Level 4) upper body movement?
 
I don't think Adelina used anything except her hand to do a pageant queen wave. I'm not really sure what Olympics you watched qwerty.
 
So they mentioned arms, head and torso in the rules and both Adelina and Caro DID use arms, head and torso, but in your opinion, only arm movements would suffice for Yuna to attain Level 4? :rolleye: So what is the difference between "moderate" (Level 3) upper body movement versus "FULL" (Level 4) upper body movement?

Copy-pasted exactly from the PDF:

"Use of upper body movements means the visible use for a combined total of at
least 1/3 of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, and/or
head and/or torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core."

There.
 
Copy-pasted exactly from the PDF:

"Use of upper body movements means the visible use for a combined total of at
least 1/3 of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, and/or
head and/or torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core."

There.
Again, what is the difference between MODEST or MODERATE Use of Upper Body Movement (Level 3) and FULL Use of Upper Body Movement (Level 4)?

Found the pdf for Pairs, not Singles, but StSq Principles should apply:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/Understanding Step Sequences - Pairs.pdf

Feature 3 - Upper Body Movement

Moderate (full for Level 4) use of upper body
movement

Refers to arms, head and torso

Moderate means visible use of two of the three parts

Full upper body movement means the visible use of all three parts of the upper body

Avoid grey areas by:

Using the upper body from start to end

Using the upper body at the start and end of each third

Let me add:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?49533-Evaluating-Step-Sequences/page2

gkelly is right about Gracie Gold not getting Level 4 because she just waved her arms with some head movement, and fell short of Feature #3. In this thread, the other poster who opined that Upper Body Movement should be "straight" and to balance the skate, not tip it, was wrong - the Feature for Upper Body Movement was to demand that skaters performed the steps in highly challenging movements that threaten their balance for a minimum of 1/3 of the skate.

From the same thread, the following quote is completely wrong, as the JUDGING of Level 4 Upper Body Movement is about performing for at least 1/3 of stsq arms, head and torso movements that AFFECT the balance of the body core, i.e. as vigorously difficult to maintain skater balance as possible. Yet this kind of judgment is all over the internet, and the Tech Panel is being accused of fraud for valuing Adelina's visibly more vigorous and off-centered movements while Yuna wasn't credited for her "smooth" stsq! It is stunning how there has been so much misconception spreading and perpetuating within an echo chamber which SHUTS OUT all other voices of truth and reason, leading to more anger and the feeling of being cheated. :disapp:

Furthermore, your upper body should be kept "still" with a straight but relaxed posture (axis) (the axis itself can move, but you can't change the axis from a straight line to say, a squiggly or hunched line just because the axis itself is not vertical. Just because your changing your upper body angle doesn't mean you should lose the posture you have when you're straight up standing. LOL. The horror. I'm starting to sound like my coach. ). And same with the arms, the torso movement should flow, and should correspond or complement with the flow and movement of the feet. And same with the head and neck. Basically, the legs/torso/neck/head(and arms) should feel like extensions of each other, your body should feel like snake undulating, with each part linked with each other, rather than seeing jagged parts like stiff rising steps of stairs.
 
You're the only person I've seen who thinks Adelina's step sequence was anything to write home about. The fact that BoP gives you the time of day is amazing to me.

I repeat : This post is too stupid to merit an answer. :rolleye: Please stop addressing my posts if you cannot manage a Level 1 question.
 
gkelly is right about Gracie Gold not getting Level 4 because she just waved her arms with some head movement, and fell short of Feature #3.

Well, actually, Gracie Gold received a level 4 for her step sequence at Worlds, executed pretty much the exact same way she did at the Olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RC-Vm3Q-Iow#t=106

As I posted earlier, Yuna has much more upper body movement than Gracie Gold. She has comparable amount of upper body movement to Mao Asada, who got a level 4 on her step sequence at the Olympics, with both even doing an illusion near the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5fA9o2sBis#t=275

Yuna DOES move her head, torso, AND arms throughout the footwork sequence, and it DOES have an effect on the balance of the main body core. She does the illusion, she bends over, she brings her arms up during two sets of twizzles, she moves her head on the beat of the music, she twists her torso, all with arm movements while she's executing the steps. I have no idea why you keep denying that it doesn't affect the balance of the main body core.
 
Well, actually, Gracie Gold received a level 4 for her step sequence at Worlds, executed pretty much the exact same way she did at the Olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RC-Vm3Q-Iow#t=106

As I posted earlier, Yuna has much more upper body movement than Gracie Gold. She has comparable amount of upper body movement to Mao Asada, who got a level 4 on her step sequence at the Olympics, with both even doing an illusion near the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5fA9o2sBis#t=275

Yuna DOES move her head, torso, AND arms throughout the footwork sequence, and it DOES have an effect on the balance of the main body core. She does the illusion, she bends over, she brings her arms up during two sets of twizzles, she moves her head on the beat of the music, she twists her torso, all with arm movements while she's executing the steps. I have no idea why you keep denying that it doesn't affect the balance of the main body core.

Then I would say you are seeing with very different eyes from mine, and I agree with the Tech Panel that while Yuna dipped twice, it wasn't enough to count for 1/3 of stsq DURATION. Again, Yuna received Level 3 more often than Level 4 for her stsq and spins, why wasn't this controversial before for the other competitions? Yuna must be aware that Caro does ALOT more for her stsq, why didn't she incorporate these details like Caro to elevate her stsq?

Again, you can't compare Gracie at one competition, Worlds, to another, Sochi, because the Tech Panel might be more lenient at one but not the other. Maybe Yuna would have received Level 4 at Worlds too, who knows?

The only one who CONSISTENTLY receives Level 4 is Caro, so her stsq is the golden standard. And yes, she has ALOT of upper body movements for most of her programs.

The 0.6 BV difference wouldn't change the result, but to make an inaccurate allegation to cast aspersions on the Tech Panel, that is another story.
 
Then I would say you are seeing with very different eyes from mine, and I agree with the Tech Panel that while Yuna dipped twice, it wasn't enough to count for 1/3 of stsq DURATION. Again, Yuna received Level 3 more often than Level 4 for her stsq and spins, why wasn't this controversial before for the other competitions? Yuna must be aware that Caro does ALOT more for her stsq, why didn't she incorporate these details like Caro to elevate her stsq?

Again, you can't compare Gracie at one competition to another, Sochi, because the Tech Panel might be more lenient at one but not the other.

The only one who CONSISTENTLY receives Level 4 is Caro, so her stsq is the golden standard. And yes, she has ALOT of upper body movements for most of her programs.

The 0.6 BV difference wouldn't change the result, but to make an inaccurate allegation to cast aspersions on the Tech Panel, that is another story.

We get it, you don't like Yuna. Her stsq was inferior to everyone else's, Adelina was a much better skater that night (hilarious), blah, blah blah...

Anyway, I think what's interesting about all this is that pretty much no one questioned Yuna's gold medal in Vancouver whereas pretty much everyone outside of Russia is questioning Adelina's gold medal in Sochi. Hmmm....wonder why.
 
We get it, you don't like Yuna. Her stsq was inferior to everyone else's, Adelina was a much better skater that night (hilarious), blah, blah blah...

Anyway, I think what's interesting about all this is that pretty much no one questioned Yuna's gold medal in Vancouver whereas pretty much everyone outside of Russia is questioning Adelina's gold medal in Sochi. Hmmm....wonder why.


Yes, simply putting facts on the table about Technical requirements = dislike Yuna.:rolleye:

The reason why no one questioned Yuna's win in Vancouver is because...well, Yuna WON, duh...., and she DIDN'T at Sochi. I'm sure if she had slated at Worlds and did not win gold there will AGAIN be another huge controversy.
 
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