TSL/This and That 2016-17

[shyne]

Basically if they wanna do 8 quad and they can do it then let them be, but if they can't then maybe tone it down a bit.

8 Quads would be too many~ since an Axel type jump is required in FS.

 

[mcq]

8 Quads would be too many~ since an Axel type jump is required in FS.

Well there is always Quad axel! That was a hyperbolic statement of course, nothing literal, don't take me too seriously there.

 

[el henry]

FACTS:

1) Liza said she occasionally took the meldonium in the past but that doesn't mean she took it consistently in 2014 or 2015 before worlds to land the 3A.

2) Most importantly it remains to be seen what are the advantages (if there are any) of taking this substance in figure skating, even WADA never cleared out this. So when she says "Liza was consistent all season because of meldonium" that is a wrong statement until you prove that is true. That's how it works.

3) If Kori knows something, please let us know! Prove scientifically that Meldonium helps to improve on this or that in figure skating, otherwise she is making accusations based on nothing, and that is sooo inappropriate and disrespectful considering she is a coach, so she is involved in this sport.

Actually i think those kind of accusations are even actionable, in this case nothing will happen since neither Mishin nor Liza knows what TSL is, but for the future i suggest her to keep these statements private.

I completely disagree with your interpretation of Kori's statement and your viewpoint.

I found Kori's opinions supported and consistent with my own.

Mostly, and I am using this post as an illustration, I apologize for jumping off, I find that the statement that Kori's opinions are "actionable" to be at the very least puzzling. Under American law, there is no way in Hades that these opinions are "actionable". I find it tiring that posters who evidently have no knowledge of the American legal system or case law call statements actionable or defamatory in their posts. If someone believes that a statement is "actionable" please share the case citation, section of the U.S. Code, or state statute that supports your opinion.

Since they are not, I for one hope Kori continues to share. :yay:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

2) Most importantly it remains to be seen what are the advantages (if there are any) of taking this substance in figure skating, even WADA never cleared out this. So when she says "Liza was consistent all season because of meldonium" that is a wrong statement until you prove that is true.

Is that an actual quote? I always thought Kori was more professional and respectful than that.

 

[Tolstoj]

I completely disagree with your interpretation of Kori's statement and your viewpoint.

I found Kori's opinions supported and consistent with my own.

Mostly, and I am using this post as an illustration, I apologize for jumping off, I find that the statement that Kori's opinions are "actionable" to be at the very least puzzling. Under American law, there is no way in Hades that these opinions are "actionable". I find it tiring that posters who evidently have no knowledge of the American legal system or case law call statements actionable or defamatory in their posts. If someone believes that a statement is "actionable" please share the case citation, section of the U.S. Code, or state statute that supports your opinion.

Since they are not, I for one hope Kori continues to share. :yay:

First of all two things:

1) it's clear that the statement "Liza won so much that season because of meldonium" is wrong until you prove that is not. So for the future stop referring Liza's 2014-2015 season to meldonium.

2) I do agree with you about Kori's opinion, giving the benefit of the doubt i don't think she wanted to say something bad about Elizaveta.

About that statement i've said "i think" because i don't know how law works in the US (even though i'm pretty sure this would be more an ISU thing) but definitely in sport in general if a coach or an athlete (or someone involved in that sport) says: "ah that athlete won thanks to doping" or "that athlete won because she is not a woman, but a man" (as they said to Caster Semenya) those kind of statements are actionable and we saw this in other sports for even less, for example in football "that team won because the referee is corrupt"... and usually the UEFA/FIFA, IAAF or whatever organization is behind that sport, takes care of these problems.

 

[Tolstoj]

Is that an actual quote? I always thought Kori was more professional and respectful than that.

Sort of.

She never said for sure "she won because of Meldonium" but instead: "...i think that's the reason (the meldonium) why she had that unbeatable season..." or "to sustain that for a woman is difficult and i think what she did that season is for a reason (meldonium)"

https://youtu.be/nEyaAuQIyAo?t=895

That's a shame because i do like her apart from that, and i think she didn't want to be offensive, i guess it is just a wrong/questionable opinion.

 

[AmyKar3n]

Questions of the week:

1. How do you feel about the use of lyrics? Is it equivalent to the Cheesecake Factory menu? Are there simply too many options?

~I'm pro lyrics, but I do agree that the many choices can be overwhelming. All the music choices keep things interesting and moving forward though , much better than the same classical pieces we've seen for years. I like the contemporary direction skating is moving in.

2. Who is your new skating obsession of the season?

~ Stepanova and Bukin. Don't judge me, but I loved that Tango.

3. Did you prefer Mao Asada or Kaetlyn Osmond?

~Mao

4. Did you prefer Patrick Chan or Nathan Chen?

~Patrick

5. How many quads is too many?

~When you have to be removed from the ice by a wheelchair, that is too many quads.

6. Will Marina Zoueva be successful at overseeing Patrick and Nathan? Will this set her up for a National Team Coordinator role?

~I think so. I think the pair team of Tarasova and Morozov would be perfect for Marina, and they need her.
Perhaps MZ is looking to set up more of a multidisciplinary international training centre? National is too small potatoes.

7. What do Hubbell and Donohue need to do in order to improve?

~More complex and more dynamic FD, also less musical compilation in the SD. I fear they will be typecast into the lovey dovey programs. They are my favourite US team, by the way.

8. Is wearing gray a good choice/bad choice?

~ Grey is ok, but another color dress on standby won't hurt ya. No way Tessa will be in the same dress come the end of the season, she's loves her fashion.

9. Were the Shibutanis and Weaver and Poje smart to not be seen until they are 100% given the tenuous state of shifting ice dance politics?

~Yes, but I feel the tide is moving away from both teams, but I hope they can each surprise us.


10. Which 'This and That' guest cohost has been your favorite?

~I like La the best, she keeps it real in Jenny's absence. I also enjoy Jonathan Beyer, I look forward to seeing him again. Dave, I was wondering if you would consider doing a This and That about the current status of Russian Ice Dance? I find it interesting that a country that used to have a stronghold on that discipline has been so far removed from that for the last 8 years. What do you really think about the partnership breakdowns, swaps, coaching changes, and the rumours that were circling Katsalapov prior to the test skates? Also, why do you think the juniors tend to stall out after they make the move to senior ranks. I know that you have touched on most of this before but I sense you could really let rip if you wanted to. I too, love the russian dance drama.

 

[temadd]

FACTS:

1) Liza said she occasionally took the meldonium in the past but that doesn't mean she took it consistently in 2014 or 2015 before worlds to land the 3A.

2) Most importantly it remains to be seen what are the advantages (if there are any) of taking this substance in figure skating, even WADA never cleared out this. So when she says "Liza was consistent all season because of meldonium" that is a wrong statement until you prove that is true. That's how it works.

3) If Kori knows something, please let us know! Prove scientifically that Meldonium helps to improve on this or that in figure skating, otherwise she is making accusations based on nothing, and that is sooo inappropriate and disrespectful considering she is a coach, so she is involved in this sport.

Actually i think those kind of accusations are even actionable, in this case nothing will happen since neither Mishin nor Liza knows what TSL is, but for the future i suggest her to keep these statements private.

Liza admitted to taking Meldonium during her winning season in which she competed something like 17 times (don't quote me on the number, but suffice it to say she competed a lot). That she stayed healthy and in peak condition the whole season with that kind of schedule is amazing.

One of Meldoniums' benefits is that it speeds up recovery especially for cardio vascular.

It is suspicious that she had such a poor showing last season after she had to stop taking it.

 

[Tolstoj]

Liza admitted to taking Meldonium during her winning season in which she competed something like 17 times (don't quote me on the number, but suffice it to say she competed a lot). That she stayed healthy and in peak condition the whole season with that kind of schedule is amazing.

One of Meldoniums' benefits is that it speeds up recovery especially for cardio vascular.

It is suspicious that she had such a poor showing last season after she had to stop taking it.

She never admitted she was taking the Meldonium mostly during that season in particular, actually her statements on meldonium came out after Sharapova's scandal.

About her winning season can i say my opinion? i don't think she would have won so much if Elena Radionova hadn't fell on the short program at the GPF, because before that Elena was the new russian prodigy and she was treated just like Medvedeva this season, and Liza didn't have such high bv on both the SP and the LP. After that mistake Tukt was considered as the star of the season and she won the Europeans thanks to her reputation, and then Worlds with the 3A.

Not it is not suspicious because we know that she is that skater who has some lazy seasons in between: i remember there were even some videos of her on youtube that she was having fun, in the post-season she gained some extra kilos,... Remember 2013-2014 season? that was even worse for her.

 

[el henry]

I have to admit that I do not understand why Russian athletes are so often a target here and at other social media platforms. They do nothing different than athletes in other nations, but they are always called out for it. Besides that, Liza is a great athlete and person with a very big heart and people need to stop with that witch hunt.

What Silverfoxes said, is right.

If we talk about Meldonium, then we also need to talk about all the Western drugs, that athletes take. Why are people in this society such hypocrites all the time? It´s not just in sports, it´s at the Syrian war, it´s everywhere. The own wrongs or of friends, idols are ignored, while those of others are always brought up.

Why can´t people just enjoy the performances, I just don´t understand that.

Alex D, I am afraid I must disagree with your premise.

We must be allowed to talk about meldonium and Liza without being unjustly accused of witch hunts. *Nothing* @Tavi said indicated anti-Russian bias. I do not follow the ladies and the Russian women could win every comp between now and 2050 for all I care.

But I am tired of the "poor poor pitiful Russia, everyone's always picking on Russia" argument.

Nope, not convinced:noshake:

 

[bramweld]

Questions of the week:

1. How do you feel about the use of lyrics? Is it equivalent to the Cheesecake Factory menu? Are there simply too many options?

Diversity is always good.

2. Who is your new skating obsession of the season?

Muramato and Reed (FD), Virtue and Moir (SD), Smart and Diaz (SD), F/B/S (SD), Mirai (LP)

3. Did you prefer Mao Asada or Kaetlyn Osmond?

Not sure yet.

4. Did you prefer Patrick Chan or Nathan Chen?

Patrick

5. How many quads is too many?

No comment.

6. Will Marina Zoueva be successful at overseeing Patrick and Nathan? Will this set her up for a National Team Coordinator role?

Don't know. Lets see how it pans out.

7. What do Hubbell and Donohue need to do in order to improve?

Take a breath and diversify their portfolio, don't panic. They need to simplify the hip hop section of the SD and add more contrast to their FD, it sort of falls flat. But maybe all this is just a small lull after such a great season last year.

8. Is wearing gray a good choice/bad choice?

It all the depends on the accents that you use. Olivia Smarts dress is really cool.

9. Were the Shibutanis and Weaver and Poje smart to not be seen until they are 100% given the tenuous state of shifting ice dance politics?

These people can do whatever they want in my book. I just hope they're worth the wait


10. Which 'This and That' guest cohost has been your favorite?

Couldn't say I've only watched one episode.

 

[skatefan17]

Casual fan view--

Bring Jenny back! I subscribed because of your two viewpoints and now the commentary feels so vacant. The guest cohosts seem basic comparatively! Was there ever a reason given for her departure?

 

[MK's Winter]

Casual fan view-- Bring Jenny back! I subscribed because of your two viewpoints and now the commentary feels so vacant. The guest cohosts seem basic comparatively! Was there ever a reason given for her departure?

Jenny is currently in Law School and I believe she does some coaching as well. She took time off for the LSATs as well.

 

[el henry]

First of all two things:

1) it's clear that the statement "Liza won so much that season because of meldonium" is wrong until you prove that is not. So for the future stop referring Liza's 2014-2015 season to meldonium.

2) I do agree with you about Kori's opinion, giving the benefit of the doubt i don't think she wanted to say something bad about Elizaveta.

About that statement i've said "i think" because i don't know how law works in the US (even though i'm pretty sure this would be more an ISU thing) but definitely in sport in general if a coach or an athlete (or someone involved in that sport) says: "ah that athlete won thanks to doping" or "that athlete won because she is not a woman, but a man" (as they said to Caster Semenya) those kind of statements are actionable and we saw this in other sports for even less, for example in football "that team won because the referee is corrupt"... and usually the UEFA/FIFA, IAAF or whatever organization is behind that sport, takes care of these problems.

Thank you for clarifying; I do not know the standards for sanctions within the sport either. I agree they would be different than the law of defamation in the US.

And I only took your post as a jumping off point to comment on other posts I had seen. I want you to have your opinion, and me to have my opinion, and for us all to express our opinions. That's why we're all here on this Board, I think,

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for posting, AmyKar3n, and welcome. Post often, post long! :yes:

 

[Botan]

I miss Jenny but of all the co - hosts so far La is my favorite. Emily Tuttle is knowledgable but too PC and quite frankly boring. She doesn't stand up for her own opinion and just settles for "okay ".
It would be great to have Johnathan back on the show tho.

 

[Alex D]

Alex D, I am afraid I must disagree with your premise.

We must be allowed to talk about meldonium and Liza without being unjustly accused of witch hunts. *Nothing* @Tavi said indicated anti-Russian bias. I do not follow the ladies and the Russian women could win every comp between now and 2050 for all I care.

But I am tired of the "poor poor pitiful Russia, everyone's always picking on Russia" argument.

Nope, not convinced:noshake:

Its not so much about not being allowed, as everyone can state his or her View. The issue others and I have is that blindness about the other / own athletes.

Out of respect I won't drop names here, but we had several cases where Olympic Champions take drugs and nobody talks about it.

I can't speak for others, but I dislike this type of behaivor.

Either we put everyone on the list, or we stop talking about single ones.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I have to admit that I do not understand why Russian athletes are so often a target here and at other social media platforms. They do nothing different than athletes in other nations, but they are always called out for it. Besides that, Liza is a great athlete and person with a very big heart and people need to stop with that witch hunt.

What Silverfoxes said, is right.

If we talk about Meldonium, then we also need to talk about all the Western drugs, that athletes take. Why are people in this society such hypocrites all the time? It´s not just in sports, it´s at the Syrian war, it´s everywhere. The own wrongs or of friends, idols are ignored, while those of others are always brought up.

Why can´t people just enjoy the performances, I just don´t understand that.

I could not disagree with this more. If you take a look at the ACTUAL response of American sport federations to the athletes who have proven to use banned performance-enhancing drugs, you will see loss of Olympic medals [Marion Jones], lifetime bans [Lance Armstrong], denial to Halls of Fame [Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire], damaged reputations [Alex Rodriguez]. And Syria? You really want to go there? You sure? Because ALL countries have blood on their hands, so to speak. Talk about a hypocritical remark.

This is nothing but anti-Western bashing and a self-pity party. Shameful. Shameful and disgraceful.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Bring back Jonathan and Emily, in terms of shall we say "the informed audience" voice. Not a fan of this week's guest.

Your professional guests are always well-worth hearing.

Not answering your questions save for one, because again, I couldn't disagree more. Cheesecake Factory? Music in figure skating is more akin to the Hostess brand than Cheesecake Factory: a very limited variety which all taste the same after a very short while. There is so much music out there, and yet we're listening to the same limited selections year after year after decade after decade. One wishes choreographers, coaches AND skaters would have more cujones.

 

[[email protected]]

But I am tired of the "poor poor pitiful Russia, everyone's always picking on Russia" argument.

Nope, not convinced:noshake:

so obvious you guys are part of the Putin Troll factory. It won't work here. Sorry!

Perfect strategy: pick on continuosly on Russian skaters, hint or say directly or just support that Liza became WC because of meldonium, name people "Putin's trolls", dismiss facts that dozens of high level American Olympians take strong drugs for therapeutic reasons - great American athlets: despite all odds they keep winning crushing their healthy competition! And when receive back just a defensive reaction reply: "the Russians
always whine!" You never lose with such a strategy.