TSL/This and That 2016-17

[Sugarpova]

Perfect strategy: pick on continuosly on Russian skaters, hint or say directly or just support that Liza became WC because of meldonium, name people "Putin's trolls", dismiss facts that dozens of high level American Olympians take strong drugs for therapeutic reasons - great American athlets: despite all odds they keep winning crushing their healthy competition! And when receive back just a defensive reaction reply: "the Russians
always whine!" You never lose with such a strategy.

Yeah we shouldnt whine
We should just whipe the spit from the faces & take it.
I cant believe the level of brainwash in some cases

Btw I cant think of why Tamara agreed to give interview to TSL...:think:

Probs offtopic but I really like this board
Lots actually unbiased posters! so I dont give up on ppl yet!:luv17:

 

[Alex D]

I could not disagree with this more. If you take a look at the ACTUAL response of American sport federations to the athletes who have proven to use banned performance-enhancing drugs, you will see loss of Olympic medals [Marion Jones], lifetime bans [Lance Armstrong], denial to Halls of Fame [Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire], damaged reputations [Alex Rodriguez]. And Syria? You really want to go there? You sure? Because ALL countries have blood on their hands, so to speak. Talk about a hypocritical remark.

This is nothing but anti-Western bashing and a self-pity party. Shameful. Shameful and disgraceful.

If all countries do, then why do we never talk about the bombs from others? Why are the media full of bloody kids, if Russia did bomb, but never when the US did? Do you really believe that your bombs don´t fall on women and children, are they so smart to only hit empty buildings?

You also talk about Liza as she took a banned substance, when she clearly didn´t. Meldonium is banned since this year, not before. I wonder if you would act the same, if an Olympic champions substance would be banned next year. Would we then also call her a cheater who took a banned drug?
I bet we wouldn´t and that´s the thing which makes people who are not anti Russian so angry. I am a neutral person, always was and always will be, to call me a Putin Troll or Anti Western is nothing but rude, disrespectful and childish.

Sad thing is, the minds are so manipulated of people, that they don´t even see their own wrongs and if this goes on, then the fights at forums will be brought to the streets and the politicians are just waiting for that, as then declaring war is as easy as pie.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

She never said for sure "she won because of Meldonium" but instead: "...i think that's the reason (the meldonium) why she had that unbeatable season..." or "to sustain that for a woman is difficult and i think what she did that season is for a reason (meldonium)"

I haven't heard that interview (part) before, and while I like and respect Kori a lot and of course still do, I gotta admit I'm disappointed with that statement.
Of course it's difficult to sustain a great form through a whole season (and I'd say it's for men too? why is it difficult for a woman?), but that's no reason to basically deny an athlete's achievement by saying it was "due to a reason/the drugs". Even if the meldonium did have an influence, I'm very convinced there were several other reasons - hard work, willpower,... - that allowed Liza to have that great 2014-15 season.
And I haven't kept up with this for a while... but I've yet to see any actually proven consequences of Meldonium, that would enable it to be the difference between Liza 2014-15 and Liza 2015-16. Yeah, "helps recovery ra~ ra~"... and so do a lot of over substances that aren't banned. And very, very likely most skaters are taking some of them. Given how hard these sports are, it is basically impossible to keep up without any form of "supplements". I'm not saying Meldonium shouldn't be banned at all, but I haven't seen any evidence yet that (on it's own) it's worth the fuss that is made about it.

You state that Kori "drew conclusions based on no facts whatsoever - only the biased reporting of TSL." In fact, you don't know that. You don't know what Kori knows, where she got her information, or how she reached the conclusions she did. Although it wasn't mentioned in this edition of This and That, Kori has a degree in skeletal biology, has co-authored scientific articles, originally planned to attend medical school, and keeps up with scientific literature in fields of interest to her. Kori did not state Liza was a bad person for taking meldonium. In fact she repeatedly said that she's an incredible athlete. She stated her opinions and expressed her admiration for what Liza is doing now. I don't see how that's disrespectful.

I'm sorry, but again, despite the fact that I respect Kori a lot for this, none of that is making her opinion any more right or justified in this case. "Skeletal biology" is still pretty far away from the Meldonium related stuff, and if she wanted to go to medical school or something like that doesn't make her any more qualified at all. Just being in a "similar" research topic doesn't necessarily mean you're opinions about the actual topic are any more supported (sometimes, things get worse, because people think they know stuff... but they're actually 'extrapolating' from completely different things).

 

[Alex D]

I haven't heard that interview (part) before, and while I like and respect Kori a lot and of course still do, I gotta admit I'm disappointed with that statement.
Of course it's difficult to sustain a great form through a whole season (and I'd say it's for men too? why is it difficult for a woman?), but that's no reason to basically deny an athlete's achievement by saying it was "due to a reason/the drugs". Even if the meldonium did have an influence, I'm very convinced there were several other reasons - hard work, willpower,... - that allowed Liza to have that great 2014-15 season.
And I haven't kept up with this for a while... but I've yet to see any actually proven consequences of Meldonium, that would enable it to be the difference between Liza 2014-15 and Liza 2015-16. Yeah, "helps recovery ra~ ra~"... and so do a lot of over substances that aren't banned. And very, very likely most skaters are taking some of them. Given how hard these sports are, it is basically impossible to keep up without any form of "supplements". I'm not saying Meldonium shouldn't be banned at all, but I haven't seen any evidence yet that (on it's own) it's worth the fuss that is made about it.



I'm sorry, but again, despite the fact that I respect Kori a lot for this, none of that is making her opinion any more right or justified in this case. "Skeletal biology" is still pretty far away from the Meldonium related stuff, and if she wanted to go to medical school or something like that doesn't make her any more qualified at all. Just being in a "similar" research topic doesn't necessarily mean you're opinions about the actual topic are any more supported (sometimes, things get worse, because people think they know stuff... but they're actually 'extrapolating' from completely different things).

To add to this very good post,

if or if not Meldonium or any other non banned substance helps is not the point. What matters is what is on the list and as long things are not on the list, an athlete is innocent.

In 20 years they might find out, that eating 12 banana each day, make your eyes better and you can perform better in rainy conditions. Does this now make every athlete of the past 100 years a cheater, because they ate many bananas?

That list exists for a reason, it´s like a law and you can not be punished for breaking the law, if the law did not exist when you "committed" something.

 

[Sugarpova]

instead of talking about two-three favourites and bashing or even ignoring the others.

why
Imo she should talk about their favs or at least skaters they keep on touch with
& just ignore others
I actually enjoyed listening observations about Adam max & other US men in the past

 

[Osmond4gold]

I miss Jenny but of all the co - hosts so far La is my favorite. Emily Tuttle is knowledgable but too PC and quite frankly boring. She doesn't stand up for her own opinion and just settles for "okay ".
It would be great to have Johnathan back on the show tho.

Liz Manley was a hoot...any chance of teaming up with her or a past guest you have found good chemistry with?

 

[solani]

To add to this very good post,

if or if not Meldonium or any other non banned substance helps is not the point. What matters is what is on the list and as long things are not on the list, an athlete is innocent.

In 20 years they might find out, that eating 12 banana each day, make your eyes better and you can perform better in rainy conditions. Does this now make every athlete of the past 100 years a cheater, because they ate many bananas?

That list exists for a reason, it´s like a law and you can not be punished for breaking the law, if the law did not exist when you "committed" something.

I agree and regarding the bananas - bananas actually improve the eye-sight. Why? Because have you ever seen an ape with glasses?
Sorry, this is a joke that was popular when I was in elemantary school and your "banana making eyes better" example just reminded me of it.

 

[skylark]

I'm certainly open to suggestions. I'm going to ask for viewer questions and topics for discussion.

I'm in! When and where can we post questions and topics? I've subscribed to TSL, but I usually just go to u tube to find you.

 

[skylark]

You also talk about Liza as she took a banned substance, when she clearly didn´t. Meldonium is banned since this year, not before. I wonder if you would act the same, if an Olympic champions substance would be banned next year. Would we then also call her a cheater who took a banned drug?
.

Kori Ade never said Liza was a cheater. She said she admired what Liza did, and mentioned her doing a 3Axel around age 13. She said Liza has gone public about having used meldonium before it was banned.

You may recall that the reason the drug has now been banned for competing athletes is that it is said to relieve performance anxiety and, over time, to help with stamina.

We can all draw our own conclusions about whether or not using a mild drug with those effects over time might have helped an athlete (Liza) whose stamina and steady competitive nerves were marvelled about, all through the 2014-15 season. I recall many remarks from commentators who were admiring, while also wondering how Liza sustained the effort that all figure skaters know is required.

Here's TSL This and That With Kori Ade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEyaAuQIyAo

 

[WeakAnkles]

If all countries do, then why do we never talk about the bombs from others? Why are the media full of bloody kids, if Russia did bomb, but never when the US did? Do you really believe that your bombs don´t fall on women and children, are they so smart to only hit empty buildings?

You also talk about Liza as she took a banned substance, when she clearly didn´t. Meldonium is banned since this year, not before. I wonder if you would act the same, if an Olympic champions substance would be banned next year. Would we then also call her a cheater who took a banned drug?
I bet we wouldn´t and that´s the thing which makes people who are not anti Russian so angry. I am a neutral person, always was and always will be, to call me a Putin Troll or Anti Western is nothing but rude, disrespectful and childish.

Sad thing is, the minds are so manipulated of people, that they don´t even see their own wrongs and if this goes on, then the fights at forums will be brought to the streets and the politicians are just waiting for that, as then declaring war is as easy as pie.

First off, I am not acquainted with Russian mainstream media since I am neither Russian nor speak the language. But I would bet that the same is true of their media as with American media: wartime atrocities committed by their military are probably NOT covered at all or in a very minor way by their mainstream media, and covered by more liberal-leaning media critical of the mainstream. How many times have Russians seen pictures of bloody kids from their own military actions on their own mainstream media? That's a problem that is not Western or Russian; it's a problem dealing with the connections and relationships between mainstream media and the government in every country in the world.

Second, I never said a single word about Liza. Or called anyone a Putin Troll in my entire lifetime. Stop putting words in my posts that simply are not there. I stand by my anti-Western bashing and hypocrite comments, based on what you wrote in a particular post. Not what I imagined you wrote, but by what was actually in the post.

I have no respect for any athlete who tries to knowingly game the system by using banned performance enhancing drugs no matter where they are from. If my own brother did this I would have no respect for him for doing so. Nor did you hear any great American protests, for instance, to restore Marion Jones's Olympic medals or Lance Armstrong's yellow jerseys did you?

Third, stop equating criticism of any Russian skater or coach or government action as being anti-Russian. I have just criticized almost all of the ice dancing programs this year as being boring. Does that automatically make me anti-American, anti-Canadian, anti-French, anti-Spanish, anti-Japanese, anti-German, anti-Finnish, anti-Israeli, anti-Danish, anti-Lithuanian, anti-Polish, anti-Czech, anti-Latvian, anti-Slovak, anti-Blyorussian, anti-Korean, anti-Italian, anti-British? Anti. Anti. Anti. It has gotten to the point on these boards that you cannot make any reasonable criticism at all without being branded "Anti" this or "Anti" that. Or a hater who hates. I have gotten to the point personally that I simply now ignore any participant here who resorts to such mudslinging. It's made my time reading here considerably shorter and my peace of mind much greater.

 

[gotoschool]

Questions of the week:

1. How do you feel about the use of lyrics? Is it equivalent to the Cheesecake Factory menu? Are there simply too many options? lyrics sound fine to me especially if they are interpreted well as it exposes people to things like opera they might never have liked before.

2. Who is your new skating obsession of the season?

3. Did you prefer Mao Asada or Kaetlyn Osmond? I was sitting the front in the arena the night of the freeskate so this one means a lot to me. I much prefer Mao's short and long program. Contrary to other posters who brought up the issue, I believe Mao should have won specifically due to the fact that on replay I see a clear ur on Kaetlyn's backend triple flip / turn / triple toe just as psusanne posted in the Finlandia Trophy Women's LP thread. This alone is more than enough to make the difference.

I also believe that Mao's PCS was too low considering her high level of sophisticated artistry and skating skills as many have posted under her videos of the performance. I also think the GOE on her triple lutz was too low considering how little of the inside blade was in contact with the ice on take off while still managing nice rotation without excessive pre-rotation. I also thought the predominance of level 3's for Mao's spins and steps were too low. I do think Kaetlyn skated well though and that she had the best program after Mao's. One note: The temperature in the arena dropped and it was absolutely freezing when the last two groups of women took the ice, which I think contributed to the nerves of all the skaters when it came to jumps. In addition, Mao has a knee injury which makes jumps putting pressure on her left leg - like the triple axel - painful.

 

[karne]

I actually enjoyed listening observations about Adam max & other US men in the past

You enjoy listening to him bash Max any time he talks about him? Because that's all he does.

 

[Princessroja]

Mods, is it possible to take the doping/Liza discussion to another post please? The thread is getting rather overwhelmed in argument right now and it's frustrating.

Sorry, Dave, that every time you post something the thread gets mired in arguments.

 

[karne]

Sorry, Dave, that every time you post something the thread gets mired in arguments.

He started the argument with his simpering insinuations about Liza on his videos. He starts the arguments with his catty gossip and the way he will suddenly turn on a skater he might previously have been backing.

Maybe the argument in here got out of hand, but let's not act like he's some innocent angel in all this.

 

[sabinfire]

Sorry, Dave, that every time you post something the thread gets mired in arguments.

Surprising? Negativity breeds negativity.

 

[andromache]

I'm genuinely curious as to why those who do nothing but criticize the show continue to watch it? If there's nothing you enjoy about it, why bother?

(Haven't watched TSL in a few months, so I'll have to catch up soon. Wish it came as a podcast so I could listen from my phone at work!)

 

[Plisskin]

I'm genuinely curious as to why those who do nothing but criticize the show continue to watch it? If there's nothing you enjoy about it, why bother?

(Haven't watched TSL in a few months, so I'll have to catch up soon. Wish it came as a podcast so I could listen from my phone at work!)

I typically don't post in these threads for this reason. Too much arguing usually erupts from things that are initially not even that serious, atleast to me. On the bright side, I guess it makes for good entertainment if your bored and want to read an e-fight.

 

[Biellmann]

Sorry, but i can't take the americans seriously, for many reasons.
Bye

 

[andromache]

He started the argument with his simpering insinuations about Liza on his videos. He starts the arguments with his catty gossip and the way he will suddenly turn on a skater he might previously have been backing.

Maybe the argument in here got out of hand, but let's not act like he's some innocent angel in all this.

So...people can't change their minds about a skater when the skater stops improving, gets worse, or develops a style that might not be to an individual's personal taste?

Anyway, my thoughts on TSL. It's not an objective show. It doesn't pretend to be an objective show. Jenny and Dave both have things they love and things they don't love, based on Jenny's experience as a competitor and both of them as fans. You might agree or disagree with their tastes. They often disagree with one another.

While the show has a slight bias toward American and Canadian skaters, this is simply because they are able to get native English-speaking guests (and listeners) much more easily than others. But that doesn't mean Dave is shy about critiquing Duhamel/Radford, Ashley Wagner, etc., even though these skaters often get compliments, too. The same goes for skaters of all nationalities, really. For every negative thing that has been said about a skater on TSL, there's probably a positive one too.

Coincidentally, I've noticed that the GS posters who criticize TSL the most are often the same posters who become extremely defensive when one of their favorite skaters is criticized by another forum member.

Anyway, the overall tone of the show is somewhat flippant and gossipy - which I'm fine with, because it's figure skating and not a serious world issue like war, and I think it's fun. The tone isn't for everyone. The show isn't for everyone, and it's obviously not for fans who haven't grown a thick skin. And it's certainly not required listening as a skating fan. Other shows have begun popping up (Blade Boys for one, I think?) to suit other tastes. Don't punish yourself by listening to something that is only going to upset you. That's why I finally had to stop watching Game of Thrones.

ETA: It also might simply come down to the issue of two fundamentally different types of fandom. Fans who love skaters for their skating versus fans who love skaters on a more personal level. Fans who love skaters for their skating will have negative opinions when the skating gets worse or a new/bad style is performed. Personal fans will not.

 

[Tolstoj]

why
Imo she should talk about their favs or at least skaters they keep on touch with
& just ignore others
I actually enjoyed listening observations about Adam max & other US men in the past

At the Japan Open's episode it was a little harsh to listen so many bad comments on Evgenia Medvedeva's programs (even if other skaters did even worse) praying in a good season from Satoko to overtake her, and they completely ignored Anna Pogorilaya, then they skipped the Ondrej Nepela Memorial (i guess cause Russia won the gold medal in each discipline or i don't know).

Maybe it's my fault, i thought TSL was about figure skating in general, not a fansite.