When a Waltz Is Not a Waltz: Penalties/Changes

[Snow63]

Thank you, 4everchan, for this interesting and helpful information.

New information about Chock/Bates' 'Dark Eyes' short dance, from Igor Shpilband:

At the Nebelhorn Trophy last month, the world silver medalists performed a colorful gypsy waltz and polka to the Russian folk standard "Dark Eyes." It was already their second short dance of the season; an earlier routine was developed and rejected this summer. And although they won gold at Nebelhorn with an impressive score, some officials thought "Dark Eyes" wasn't suitable for a polka rhythm.

"We cannot afford to have any weak points," said Shpilband, who coaches the team in Novi, Michigan. "Since several people didn't like the polka part, we changed the program completely. Our goal is to win worlds, and you can see by the high score here already, we made the right decision."

From here: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2015...ctly-ballroom-chock-bates-lead-with-new-short

So I was right, they changed their SD because of the second rhythm, not because of the tempo of the waltz. Although for me, second part was a good and 'correct' polka, but then again, I'm not a musician. Most probably, some of the judges at Nebelhorn pushed the button for 'Music Requirements Violation' deduction, but there was not enough votes for a majority of the panel.

Edit: it would be probably a better decision to change the second rhythm for something similar, I don't like their changes at all.

 

[dorispulaski]

I quite like the new SD, although I preferred the old one. Chock and Bates have not done a strictly ballroom program as just a man and a woman dancing before and have been criticized for not doing so, with inferences made that they could not do one, and claims made that they succeeded in the past only when they did OTT character dramas, even in the SDs.

They did a great job at SkAm in the SD, and made a good impression on both crowd and judges, an impressive result, especially considering it was only their third full run through of the program

2015-16 SEASON NOTES

SD Music: "More" by Andrea Bocelli and "Unchained Melody" by Il Divo
FD Music: "Concerto No. 2" by Sergei Rachmaninoff

PAST SEASON
2014-15 Season Notes

SD Music: Music from Don Quixote by Léon Minkus
FD Music: Selections from An American in Paris by Leonard Bernstein

Costumes designed by Madison Chock
2013-14 Season Notes
SD Music: "Hollywood" by Puppini Sisters, "There's No Business Like Show Business" by Irving Berlin
FD Music: Selections from Les Misérables by various artists

Costumes designed by Madison Chock
2012-13 Season Notes
SD Music: "Quidam" by Cirque du Soleil
FD Music: Doctor Zhivago by Maurice Jarre

2011-12 Season Notes
SD Music: "Chick Chick Boom"
FD Music: "Prelude in E minor" by Frederic Chopin

Costume designed by Madison Chock

 

[skylark]

I quite like the new SD, although I preferred the old one. Chock and Bates have not done a strictly ballroom program as just a man and a woman dancing before and have been criticized for not doing so, with inferences made that they could not do one, and claims made that they succeeded in the past only when they did OTT character dramas, even in the SDs.

They did a great job at SkAm in the SD, and made a good impression on both crowd and judges, an impressive result, especially considering it was only their third full run through of the program

Their SD was thrilling ... in fact, Tanith and Mike mentioned that they were the only couple in the SD competition who looked like a couple just dancing, for the joy of it. Eurosport guys agreed. It seems to me that a strictly ballroom program is a strength for them, newlyfound and partly by accident!

 

[skylark]

I'm a musician reading this thread only Monday morning, and I've been waiting to respond, to see if anyone had given this explanation. Thanks, 4everchan!

For me, the critical point is that in 6/8 time, the macro-rhythm is actually 2 beats per measure and often it's directed in two: on counts 1 and 4. But 3/4 time is always directed in three: oom! pah pah. So even when 6/8 seems right, because of 3 small eighth-note beats per One count, there are subtle and not-so-subtle variations.

for those interested, if you haven't seen it before...

6/8 is a compound meter. compound meter means that each beat is a combination of 3 smaller units...
in this case: the smaller unit is the eighth note...and the bar is made out of TWO beats containing 3 of these eighth notes (dotted quarter note).

3/4 is a regular meter. It consists of THREE beats. each beat is a quarter note.

A waltz is traditionally a dance composed on a 3/4 meter... with a clear downbeat and two lighter beats... OUM-Pa-Pa. Often, there is a pick-up leading to the downbeat so a clear sense of hierarchy is established in the rhythm.

IF a piece in 6/8 would consist of regular eighth note beats all the way through... 1 + + 2 + + , it may confuse a listener in thinking that ONE bar is indeed TWO bars of a waltz... or something like two bars of 3/8 after another BUT the issue here is that
1) most pieces in 6/8 will feature other beat subdivisions
2) the hierarchy of the meter is no longer equal to a waltz... as those two 3/8 bars wouldn't have the same kind of clear Oum-Pa-Pa because in 6/8 the hierarchy of the beats is the following... ONE.... two..... or when divided.. ONE ++ two ++.... the second beat is indeed weaker... and the pick up into ONE isn't of the same nature at all as the one in Dance.... and there is very rarely a pick up into two... so to make it into a waltz pattern is very problematic.

I hope this musical explanation helps you understand why some choreographers may have issues.... I am NOT a figure skating expert, so perhaps the waltz patterns can fit into some sort of alternative meter other than the WALTZ proper rhythm that is in 3/4.

Teams who are going with classical music indeed do have an easier time since composers observed the Waltz's original features with a clear downbeat and sense of OUM-pa -pa....

however, when going for non-classical music, some composers or songwriters often play with multiple rhythmic patterns, some going from 3/4 to 6/8 so sometimes, one may have the impression of hearing a waltz pattern but it isn't regular or may shift... creating the issues mentioned with P/C... I couldn't hear a clear waltz at all when I listened to the music selection... however, I have not seen the program nor the final cuts... so who knows?

again, hopefully this is helping a few ... and if not sorry you can just skip this long explanation

PS: it is also important to mention that not all 3/4 meters are Waltzes for instance, a Mazurka is in 3/4... it is slightly differently organized rhythmically... whether or not this could affect the dance patterns I don't know...

 

[semosk8tfan]

I am very pleased with the change of program for Chock and Bates. I thought their SD in Milwaukee was charming. Having said that, I thought the gypsy character really fit Madison so maybe they can make a free dance out of Dark Eyes someday.

 

[Astrid56]

Their SD was thrilling ... in fact, Tanith and Mike mentioned that they were the only couple in the SD competition who looked like a couple just dancing, for the joy of it. Eurosport guys agreed. It seems to me that a strictly ballroom program is a strength for them, newlyfound and partly by accident!

Not surprised that they did so well in this SD. You could tell from their first FD outing in 2011 that they would do so well in Foxtrot. Evan knows how to present his partner and he moves very well despite his lankiness. He looks confident and seems oblivious of his height when he dances, lol, and that is a real plus. The man can dance and Maddie can dance too and such grace - love the way she moves her arms. What's nice is that both have a great sense of timing which is extremely important in dance.