Who should have won that gold! Top ten robberies

[ManyCairns]

Gosh, I have to agree on Michelle in 98, can't believe I didn't think of it when I wrote my original post, but it's just that Michelle really has transcended the whole Oly gold/no gold issue, so much so that I didn't even think of '98. And I'm one that thinks her Oly Lyra was just as good as Nationals, if you watch both w/o audio I don't think there's less emotion/power/delivery at all, for me.

B/A robbed of World Gold I do think.

 

[jenaj]

Gosh, I have to agree on Michelle in 98, can't believe I didn't think of it when I wrote my original post, but it's just that Michelle really has transcended the whole Oly gold/no gold issue, so much so that I didn't even think of '98. And I'm one that thinks her Oly Lyra was just as good as Nationals, if you watch both w/o audio I don't think there's less emotion/power/delivery at all, for me.

B/A robbed of World Gold I do think.

Michelle Kwan 1995 Worlds and 1998 Olympics. There is even a case to be made for the 2002 Olympics for Michelle.

 

[Mathman]

Emmerich Danzer, '68

A tough break for Danzer, but without actually seeing the figure he messed up on it's hard to say whether he was robbed or not.

All three of Danzer, Schwarz and Woods were outstanding in figures, and Danzer was a far better free skater than either of the others. At the Olympics something went terribly wrong with one of Danzer's figures and he ended up in fourth well behind Schwarz (first) and Woods (second).

Danzer did win the free skate, with Schwartz ahead of Wood in second.

If they had known how Wolfgagng Schwarz was going to turn out, they might have thought twice about making him Olympic cahmpion (oh those Austrians). Schwartz was convicted in 2002 for smuggling Eastern European women into Germany to work as prostitutes, No sooner was he out of jali on that one when when he was convicted (in 2006) to eight years in prison for plotting to kidnap the teenaged daughter of a wealthy family and hold her for a million dollar ransom. (He should be out in time for the Sochi Olympics.)

Here are the the free skates from 1968.

Schwarz (first in figures, second in free skating, gold overall)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulo1_Qzpq2I

Danzer (first in free skating, fourth in figures and overall)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ61-JQ3Svg

Wood (second in figures, third in free skating, silver overall)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXOUyvEpyYY

Home town boy (this was the Grenoble Olympics) Patrick Pera placed third in figures, seventh in the free, and took tthe bronze. (Oh those French judges.)

 

[blue_idealist]

I agree with rallycairn about M/D. They were better than G/G that night and should have won the olympics. G/G were not clean enough for that medal when M/D had a better performance.

Me too, I love that '94 performance, much better than their actual gold performance in '92. This isn't Olympics, but I want to add Belbin and Agosto at the 2009 Worlds instead of Domnina and Shabalin. Oh yeah, and Denkova and Staviski at 2004 Worlds instead of Navka and Kostomarov for gold.

There was a time when I thought Bechke and Petrov should have won in '92 instead of M&D, but I'm back and forth on that one.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Hmmm.......


2012 Worlds: I think Dai should've beaten Patrick.
2011 Euros: Kavaguti/Smirnov should've destroyed S/S in the free program, but it was a narrow victory and they lost the title overall.
2008 Worlds: I think you can make an argument for Dube/Davison (Buttercup and Blades of Passion both have), but I think that S/S have the edge
2002 Olympics: Slutskaya over Hughes. Hughes deservingly won the long, but was egregiously overmarked in the short.
2001 Worlds: No way should Fusar-Poli/Maraglio won this title over A/P.

Those are the recent ones that stick out in my craw. 1994 is an interesting case, mainly because the competitions were such that no one really deserved to win but someone had to (dance, men, ladies), or they ALL deserved to win, but only one could (pairs). In a perfect world, Olympic history would be rewritten.

 

[Oreo]

I thought Linda Fratianne should have won in 1980, but she was undone in the compulsory skate.

 

[skateluvr]

skateluvr, I think you're disregarding the standings after figures & the short program. If I'm reading my results from back in 1988 (Olympics) after the figures: 1-Fadeev, 2- Boitano & 3-Orser. After the short the standings were: 1-Boitano2-Orser & 3-Fadeev. I seem to remember that in the free skate Boitano landed one more triple jump than Orser & that was a determining factor as well.

I disagree with the judging in 88. I ignore figures as they should never have counted for so much. For me, trixie was like a giant clunky bullhorn. Janet is skating..to go back a few responses. Brian was better in his sp. Brian orser like Elvis Stojko should have a gold. I like that figures were trained and tested honestly, but then you have a freeskater like Lynn or Orser? I gave the Sp and LP to Orser, slight mistake in his LP but he was just superior to Brian, light, fast, better choreography. I think Boitano had the edge as an American. Orser, golden to me...one of the greatest men to skate. He smoked the ice in Carmen. Boitano had those muscles...I honestly could see it either way but Orser was/is Kurt's idol for good reason.

I too thought M/D outskated G&G. I just loved Sergei so much, almost hate to say it.

 

[doug_log]

How about Lu Chen at '96 Worlds?

Kwan did one more triple than Chen (a 3T), so she had the # of triples advantage, but Chen did two Lutzes with a true edge, unlike Kwan who flutzed. Chen's jumps were also bigger (significantly), so I would give the edge to Chen on the jumps.

I think their spins might be comparable.

As for as the second mark, I suppose it's a toss up, but whereas Kwan was theatrical, Chen was deeply moving and emotional. Chen also had deeper edges and better overall skating skills.

In my mind, Chen definitely was robbed in 1996.

 

[skateluvr]

96 ladies was so tough. MK was perfect, and Lu Chen was the lady Michelle wanted to be. I thought at the time Lu Chen's sophistication made her the winner. MK was transformed and she did a great job as Salome given her youth. Michelle in 95 should have medaled. The judges were kind of giving the American girl her due. Lu Chen may have lost to USA's girl because she was from Red China. Amazing world competition. Chen Lu again exquisite, the grande dane in 98. I think 98 was my favorite ladies podium I can recall.

As for S/Zhao, well just saying how amazing they were. T/M in 2006 were so boring. Most forgettable Russian pair ever with Oly gold. She was so boring. Amidst great Russian pairs, they had technique but artistically so weak. Hard to remember they were Russian!

 

[Serious Business]

I really, really hate saying this, because I like Baiul a whole lot and have no love for Kerrigan, but Nancy was ridiculously robbed at the 1994 Olympics ladies free skate. Nancy had so much more technical content than Oksana did, more difficult ones, too. It's particularly lopsided in the jump department. And Nancy had more transitions, footwork, spirals, spin positions. At the most, I might have had Oksana tie Nancy in presentation scores (while I vastly prefer Oksana's artistry, there's just very little going on in this cobbled-together and incoherent program), and then have Nancy clobber Oksana in the technical score.

I just rewatched the two performances on Youtube to see if I remembered them wrong, or that I'd change my mind. But nope! It's just as ridiculous as I remembered. After Oksana finishes skating, my reaction is, "the music is going to start back up, right? 'Cause she clearly still has half a program left to do."

 

[Tonichelle]

I honestly could see it either way but Orser was/is Kurt's idol for good reason.

He also wanted to emmulate Scott Hamilton, though.

I can see the argument for 84 for Orser, not so much in 88.

 

[icellist]

Yukari Nakano - Worlds 1998

I agree with you that Yukari should have won a gold medal, but I'm thinking about the Worlds a decade later (2008). Both her SP and FS were flawless and performed impeccably charismatic. I think her 3A in the FS was one of her best ever and not UR. Mao had that weird fall. Carolina should have gotten -GOE on all her jumps for her landings. Kim didn't deliver. Yukari's spins were better than all the medalists. Her PCS was way underscored. I'm most angry about that she didn't even medal in the judge's eyes. One of the greatest wuzrobbed in history in my opinion.

 

[Buttercup]

At the time I was very pro-Yagudin so I was pleased with the outcome, but really, Abt wuzrobbed (not in the SP, the placements there were right - but it's a nice program so I figured I'd link to it, too).

2008 Worlds: I think you can make an argument for Dube/Davison (Buttercup and Blades of Passion both have), but I think that S/S have the edge

I believe I argued that D/D should have won the LP and at least beaten the Zhangs for silver, because I liked L'Oiseau (badly performed as it was). But my memory is hazy on this. They really were marvelous that year.

 

[burntBREAD]

How did Boitano being an American give him an advantage when the '88 Olympics were in Calgary, Canada and Orser is Canadian?
Also, a step-out was actually pretty big under 6.0 especially when the other skater was essentially clean.

 

[dorispulaski]

And not attempting the 2nd triple axel was also a big deal in 6.0. And although not as big a deal in 6.0, Orser did not attempt a triple triple of any kind (Boitano did a 3F3T). And Orser seemed a bit tired in the last 30 seconds of the program, always a negative under either system.

It's worth noting that Boitano's Lutz was the tano Lutz, with the hand over the head. His spins were significantly better than Orser's too. And the spread eagle and flying sit were to die for.

Orser had better footwork, and more footwork.

Rewatching the programs with COP eyes, Orser's spins were not the greatest. He has always had a dreadful position in the sit spin, too. Boitano should have won the technical mark, for sure, which was the tie-breaker at the time. And I would have given him the 2nd mark as well-Boitano told a story convincingly, had great speed and smoothness throughout. A gorgeous program. I rewatch it often.

Orser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1TLmtf0CzI
Boitano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Rpt0dF9zw

Frankly, if the event were not in Canada, or even if Boitano had skated last instead of first, I think Boitano would have won even more decisively.

 

[plushyfan]

At the time I was very pro-Yagudin so I was pleased with the outcome, but really, Abt wuzrobbed (not in the SP, the placements there were right - but it's a nice program so I figured I'd link to it, too).


I believe I argued that D/D should have won the LP and at least beaten the Zhangs for silver, because I liked L'Oiseau (badly performed as it was). But my memory is hazy on this. They really were marvelous that year.

YEes, Abt was robbed, Yagudin also knew that he wasn't the best.

 

[plushyfan]

And not attempting the 2nd triple axel was also a big deal in 6.0. And although not as big a deal in 6.0, Orser did not attempt a triple triple of any kind (Boitano did a 3F3T). And Orser seemed a bit tired in the last 30 seconds of the program, always a negative under either system.

It's worth noting that Boitano's Lutz was the tano Lutz, with the hand over the head. His spins were significantly better than Orser's too. And the spread eagle and flying sit were to die for.

Orser had better footwork, and more footwork.

Rewatching the programs with COP eyes, Orser's spins were not the greatest. He has always had a dreadful position in the sit spin, too. Boitano should have won the technical mark, for sure, which was the tie-breaker at the time. And I would have given him the 2nd mark as well-Boitano told a story convincingly, had great speed and smoothness throughout. A gorgeous program. I rewatch it often.

Orser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1TLmtf0CzI
Boitano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Rpt0dF9zw

Frankly, if the event were not in Canada, or even if Boitano had skated last instead of first, I think Boitano would have won even more decisively.

You're right, Boitano was better.

 

[ManyCairns]

I really, really hate saying this, because I like Baiul a whole lot and have no love for Kerrigan, but Nancy was ridiculously robbed at the 1994 Olympics ladies free skate. Nancy had so much more technical content than Oksana did, more difficult ones, too. It's particularly lopsided in the jump department. And Nancy had more transitions, footwork, spirals, spin positions. At the most, I might have had Oksana tie Nancy in presentation scores (while I vastly prefer Oksana's artistry, there's just very little going on in this cobbled-together and incoherent program), and then have Nancy clobber Oksana in the technical score.

I just rewatched the two performances on Youtube to see if I remembered them wrong, or that I'd change my mind. But nope! It's just as ridiculous as I remembered. After Oksana finishes skating, my reaction is, "the music is going to start back up, right? 'Cause she clearly still has half a program left to do."

The technical disparity between the two programs really is striking. Nancy really laid it down under incredible circumstances.

 

[plushyfan]

WOW! have you ever seen this video? Was Mao robbed? I don't know....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu7TQfAx844&feature=g-all-f

 

[dorispulaski]

I do have to say that at the Olympics 1994, Nancy should have won. And I have always more or less detested her skating. But she was by far technically superior in that competition.