Who should have won that gold! Top ten robberies

[mary01]

What is this long conversation about Kim and Asada?
Nobody ever would think or told that it was a robbery, what is the title of the subject!!
Why to discuss about Kim's program was or was not the best ever Olympic performance?
It is not in this topic. If you ask me, I think that it was the best ever and Mao's was th 2nd best ever. Even Rochette would win every single Olympic Games before Vancouver with her perfomnce.

I Will always remember Mao's olympic performances as the best ever, I think Mao's programs are the most memorable, I found her short program filled with pure joy and the program itself pure perfection when it comes to every element she did on the ice, and her free skate one of the most intense and uniqe programs i have seen!

 

[blue_idealist]

What is this long conversation about Kim and Asada?
Nobody ever would think or told that it was a robbery, what is the title of the subject!!
Why to discuss about Kim's program was or was not the best ever Olympic performance?
It is not in this topic. If you ask me, I think that it was the best ever and Mao's was th 2nd best ever. Even Rochette would win every single Olympic Games before Vancouver with her perfomnce.

The real Robbery was in 1994 ( besides Mishkutionok-Dmitriev), when Torvill/Dean was killed by the Russian politics.
That was a turning point of the popularity of the sport!!

Yu-Na's performance probably was the best OGM performance from a lady, and Mao's performance might be the second best, but Rochette would NOT win every single Olympics before Vancouver with her performance. I can't think of a single one she would win, except maybe '94 and I still highly doubt it. I actually think Mirai deserved the bronze in 2010.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Maybe 2006.

 

[Olympia]

If you ask me, I think that it was the best ever and Mao's was th 2nd best ever. Even Rochette would win every single Olympic Games before Vancouver with her perfomnce.


The real Robbery was in 1994 ( besides Mishkutionok-Dmitriev), when Torvill/Dean was killed by the Russian politics.
That was a turning point of the popularity of the sport!!

I agree with your first point. I think the whole long program night in Vancouver was pretty miraculous, from YuNa on down to the sixth- or seventh-place competitor. Everyone rose to the occasion. Just one could win the gold, but everyone sparkled.

Your second point: I remembered feeling tremendously disappointed by the result of the ice dance in 1994. For one thing, I did feel that Torvill and Dean wuzrobbed. But even if they didn't win, I had hopes for Usova/Zhulin, a magnificent couple with a gorgeous fluid style and impeccable technique. I found Grishchuk and Platov's program repetitive and frenzied. And then they won a second Olympic gold...I must be missing something.

 

[janetfan]

, but Rochette would NOT win every single Olympics before Vancouver with her performance. I can't think of a single one she would win, except maybe '94 and I still highly doubt it. I actually think Mirai deserved the bronze in 2010.

Yes, without doubt, in a different country with different circumstances, not to mention in a "real sport" Mirai would have beaten Joannie pretty easily.

 

[Skater Boy]

We are off topic but I really doubt Mirai would have won bronze. She was clean and I agree that helps but Like I said Joannie was far closer and the scores even show that to silver than Mirai winning bronze. Mirai skated Carmen with the lack of sophistication. If you were in Vancouver and i respect Mirai was clean with her jumps it was clear her edges and speed were not that of Joannie's Moreover, she did the pretty ballerina performance but did not and could not convey carmen on the ice by any stretch of the imagination. A little girl who skated to Carmen music but couldn't relate. Imho Mira's was not robbed of bronze and would not score higher with COP in another country. the judges in the past though a different scoring system gave big marks for skating lacking amplitude ie. Tara in 1998; even if Mira was scored somehow higher in the long program Joannie had a big enough lead ; sorry it wasn't going to happen. if it was then Mira might as well take the silver. I liked Mirai a lot at the olympic games but those in the know even if you don't like Joannie's performance can understand why under COP it scored higher. When you break it down Joannie's performance is probably the most sophisticated and difficult sans jumps (in betweens - she didn't get full credit but several in the skating world broke down the performance and said it was the hardest (technicians and choreographers). It was interesting and I could see why Joannie would beat Mirai. But I think there is still hope for Mirai if she gets her act together..

 

[janetfan]

We are off topic but I really doubt Mirai would have won bronze. She was clean and I agree that helps but Like I said Joannie was far closer and the scores even show that to silver than Mirai winning bronze. Mirai skated Carmen with the lack of sophistication. If you were in Vancouver and i respect Mirai was clean with her jumps it was clear her edges and speed were not that of Joannie's Moreover, she did the pretty ballerina performance but did not and could not convey carmen on the ice by any stretch of the imagination. A little girl who skated to Carmen music but couldn't relate. Imho Mira's was not robbed of bronze and would not score higher with COP in another country. the judges in the past though a different scoring system gave big marks for skating lacking amplitude ie. Tara in 1998; even if Mira was scored somehow higher in the long program Joannie had a big enough lead ; sorry it wasn't going to happen. if it was then Mira might as well take the silver. I liked Mirai a lot at the olympic games but those in the know even if you don't like Joannie's performance can understand why under COP it scored higher. When you break it down Joannie's performance is probably the most sophisticated and difficult sans jumps (in betweens - she didn't get full credit but several in the skating world broke down the performance and said it was the hardest (technicians and choreographers). It was interesting and I could see why Joannie would beat Mirai. But I think there is still hope for Mirai if she gets her act together..

Mirai getting her "act together" is really getting off topic.

You make some good points although I disagree with many of them.

I can think of Johnny skating better than Patrick in Vancouver but still being placed behind him.

Without doubt the Olympics, particularly skating are still very political.

Joannie's situation was compelling and the big story of the Vancouver Olympics. I don't have a problem with her being given the bronze.....just think Mirai outskated her THAT night.

Others are free to disagree.

 

[Krislite]

What is this long conversation about Kim and Asada?
Nobody ever would think or told that it was a robbery, what is the title of the subject!!
Why to discuss about Kim's program was or was not the best ever Olympic performance?
It is not in this topic. If you ask me, I think that it was the best ever and Mao's was th 2nd best ever. Even Rochette would win every single Olympic Games before Vancouver with her perfomnce.


The real Robbery was in 1994 ( besides Mishkutionok-Dmitriev), when Torvill/Dean was killed by the Russian politics.
That was a turning point of the popularity of the sport!!

It started off because plushyfan mentioned a dance expert's opinion on Kim vs. Asada's Olympic performances, and it has continued because of some rather strong opinions one way or the other (e.g. Blades of Passion). When you have a topic about who "wuzrobbed" I don't think the last Olympics can be avoided. The men's competition especially, but even the ladies competition for those who insist on Mao's artistic superiority.

In my opinion no one wuzrobbed at that competition. Mao may have better lines and other qualities but they were completely obscured and overpowered by the music and that choreography, and she was undone by her mistakes. I also think it definitely was the greatest Olympic performance by a lady, considering everything and not just choreography. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[blue_idealist]

Maybe 2006.

I still doubt Rochette would have beaten Arakawa for gold - didn't Arakawa have a triple-triple? IIRC Joannie also made a mistake on one of her jumps. I know she lost her Mom, but I found most of the performance kind of heavy/wooden too (as I find a lot of her performances TBH).

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I still doubt Rochette would have beaten Arakawa for gold - didn't Arakawa have a triple-triple? IIRC Joannie also made a mistake on one of her jumps. I know she lost her Mom, but I found most of the performance kind of heavy/wooden too (as I find a lot of her performances TBH).

Not at the actual events, but in practice she did. Rochette had a step-out on her flip and a couple shaky landings (one of which led to leaving out the second 2A from her sequence). I certainly think that the judges would've given her kinder scores than is suggested by "heavy/wooden," at any rate.

 

[plushyfan]

I can not remember every detail, but I'm sure, Arakawa deserved the gold, she was fantastic.

 

[johnny 80]

Both of these points are important, but the second one is something that as a fan I often forget, and it's good to remember it. When I watch a competitive program on TV, I miss a lot of what the judges are seeing (and they're not just in the stadium, they're down in front). I miss the speed and all sorts of other small elements that just don't come across on TV.

Many of the people on here have been fortunate enough to be in the stadium for a major competition. Several have actually attended the Olympics. This is not something I've yet been able to do. Still, it's hard to get a fan to suspend judgment. We all want to put in our opinion...even if a bunch of judges have ruled the other way. (Michelle won in 1998! Michelle! Michelle!) I guess it's an inescapable part of being so fond of our sport. We do not want to retire the term "wuzrobbed." I'm sure we'll have plenty of chance to use it in the next two years.

You are right. Before We watch the competitions live , We should be cautious. I watched both of them live.

Even Kurt Browning and Scott Hamilton didn't recognize Yuna's true talent before they watched her competition Live. TV is very manipulative and even deceptive.

It is always easier said than done. That's why Most of judges are from ex-competitive skaters.

It is more difficult to perform to music like Gershwin Concerto or Lyra angelica which is not so dramatic or not much emotional.



And I would trust the real Professional's opinion who watched the game live more than amateurs who pretend to be professionals. I don't know if they watch the game live or not.

I think professionals have eyes to perceive talents that we amateurs cannot see,because they have gone through the process not only by head but by their own body unlike us.




Like Robin Cousins , Alexander Zhulin, Philippe Candeloro and tons of Champions.
You know? They all told those words after they saw the competition Live ,not on TV.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/27/us-olympics-figure-skating-yuna-idUSTRE61Q09320100227

"If someone asked me who they should look at (across the generations) I would say Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill, Katarina Witt and definitely Yuna. There isn't a move Yuna makes that doesn't give her points," said Cousins.



http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/373172

“This girl is perfection itself! On ice she can play any character.” – Philippe Candeloro, two-times Olympic medalist in men figure skating, told me in a mixed zone after the competition was ended. It’s hardly possible to hear a stronger compliment from the person, who always was representing fictional characters such as Conan and D’Artagnan during his career.

Alexander Zhulin was right when he said 3 years ago: “Looking at Yuna Kim’s performances, I want to quit coaching. A talent like this is born once in a millenium.”

 

[mary01]

In my opinion no one wuzrobbed at that competition. Mao may have better lines and other qualities but they were completely obscured and overpowered by the music and that choreography, and she was undone by her mistakes. I also think it definitely was the greatest Olympic performance by a lady, considering everything and not just choreography. That's all I'm going to say.

this is complete nonsense, and out of this subject, the music, and choreography have nothing to do with the skaters skills and what was discussed was skaters general skills and how they affect a performance!

when Mao's special qualities where mentioned like positioning, flexibility, line, extention, smoothnes etc. it was to compare and show why Mao's performance from an aesthatic point of view is much more beautiful and polished compared to kims performances!

wheter you think that the music was overpowed or underpowered is a completly different subject, I for my part can't think of any skater who would be able to skate to music like bells with more intensity and deliver those deeper dark feelings that are connected to the music, more then Mao did!

 

[Olympia]

When we get to discussing Mao and YuNa in a thread like this, I realize one thing: The fans were definitely NOT robbed, because we got to see two amazing talents--two once-in-a-lifetiime talents--skating at the same time, each pushing the other forward. For us fans, it's like winning two lotteries on the same day, or discovering that we have inherited both a Da Vinci and a Rembrandt. That's as far as I can take any evaluation--just up to "How lucky can we get?" This is why, though these ladies' talents are gloriously different from each other, I can never praise one at the expense of the other.

 

[cooper]

In my opinion no one wuzrobbed at that competition. Mao may have better lines and other qualities but they were completely obscured and overpowered by the music and that choreography, and she was undone by her mistakes. I also think it definitely was the greatest Olympic performance by a lady, considering everything and not just choreography. That's all I'm going to say.

this is complete nonsense, and out of this subject, the music, and choreography have nothing to do with the skaters skills and what was discussed was skaters general skills and how they affect a performance!

when Mao's special qualities where mentioned like positioning, flexibility, line, extention, smoothnes etc. it was to compare and show why Mao's performance from an aesthatic point of view is much more beautiful and polished compared to kims performances!

wheter you think that the music was overpowed or underpowered is a completly different subject, I for my part can't think of any skater who would be able to skate to music like bells with more intensity and deliver those deeper dark feelings that are connected to the music, more then Mao did!

so mao got robbed at the 2010 olympics??????????????????? :sarcasm:

 

[blue_idealist]

We are off topic but I really doubt Mirai would have won bronze. She was clean and I agree that helps but Like I said Joannie was far closer and the scores even show that to silver than Mirai winning bronze. Mirai skated Carmen with the lack of sophistication. If you were in Vancouver and i respect Mirai was clean with her jumps it was clear her edges and speed were not that of Joannie's Moreover, she did the pretty ballerina performance but did not and could not convey carmen on the ice by any stretch of the imagination. A little girl who skated to Carmen music but couldn't relate. Imho Mira's was not robbed of bronze and would not score higher with COP in another country. the judges in the past though a different scoring system gave big marks for skating lacking amplitude ie. Tara in 1998; even if Mira was scored somehow higher in the long program Joannie had a big enough lead ; sorry it wasn't going to happen. if it was then Mira might as well take the silver. I liked Mirai a lot at the olympic games but those in the know even if you don't like Joannie's performance can understand why under COP it scored higher. When you break it down Joannie's performance is probably the most sophisticated and difficult sans jumps (in betweens - she didn't get full credit but several in the skating world broke down the performance and said it was the hardest (technicians and choreographers). It was interesting and I could see why Joannie would beat Mirai. But I think there is still hope for Mirai if she gets her act together..

I don't think Mirai would have won the bronze if the Olympics were in another country/Joannie hadn't lost her mother, either.

Joannie wasn't gifted the bronze because she lost her mother or because the Olympics were in Canada. IMO she was just generally overrated, kind of like Chan, although not to that extent. I like her better as a pro. She doesn't have that heavy look to her skating or look absolutely miserable on the ice. I honestly think she didn't like competing much, or it made her extremely nervous, or both.

 

[Krislite]

In my opinion no one wuzrobbed at that competition. Mao may have better lines and other qualities but they were completely obscured and overpowered by the music and that choreography, and she was undone by her mistakes. I also think it definitely was the greatest Olympic performance by a lady, considering everything and not just choreography. That's all I'm going to say.

this is complete nonsense, and out of this subject, the music, and choreography have nothing to do with the skaters skills and what was discussed was skaters general skills and how they affect a performance!

when Mao's special qualities where mentioned like positioning, flexibility, line, extention, smoothnes etc. it was to compare and show why Mao's performance from an aesthatic point of view is much more beautiful and polished compared to kims performances!

wheter you think that the music was overpowed or underpowered is a completly different subject, I for my part can't think of any skater who would be able to skate to music like bells with more intensity and deliver those deeper dark feelings that are connected to the music, more then Mao did!

I said what I wrote would be my last word on the matter. If you wish to argue that Mao wuzrobbed I'd be more than happy to engage you. But if you wish to discuss the aesthetic merits of Mao's Bells of Moscow program vs. Yuna's Gershwin program, take it elsewhere. At least I've been more civil and did not resort to calling other's opinions as "complete nonsense".

 

[Bluebonnet]

I don't like that Kwan and irina don't have a gold medal in Olympics and lipinski and Hughes do, I found Tara 's program ok entertaining and I didn't like Hugues at all, so this is just a wish. I wouldnt be sad if Michelle had won in 1998 and irina at 2002, I wouldn't shout they wuzrobbed someone else.

This is the dead horses thread

This is very close to my feelings. I wish Michelle would have won in 1998 and Irina would have won in 2002. There were somethings so unfinished and unsettled forever. If they were under CoP, Michelle and Irina would definitely have been lost. But under 6.0, they should have been able to win. I so wish they had.

 

[mary01]

I said what I wrote would be my last word on the matter. If you wish to argue that Mao wuzrobbed I'd be more than happy to engage you. But if you wish to discuss the aesthetic merits of Mao's Bells of Moscow program vs. Yuna's Gershwin program, take it elsewhere. At least I've been more civil and did not resort to calling other's opinions as "complete nonsense".

you know i never directly claimed that Mao was wusrubbed you, yourself and the another previous poster have come that conclusion after the long discussion, through I did say that i far prefer Mao's programs too yunas, and therfor did state why I prefered Mao's performance.
Maybe you should reread my post and everyones and see what we were talking about and what was described, cause what you are saying is still out of content.

and you know I am not taking anything elsewhere, this thread is made for discussion and if that discussion offended you it's your problem, not mine!

 

[cosmos]

Mao's performance may be pretty but YuNa's performance is spectacular, at least for me.