Would Cohen have climbed to the top if she stayed with Tarasova?

[Kasey]

Was Tarasova going to do the jumps for her? If not, I would say no. And if so, I think I would still say no. It doesn't matter what kind of coaching genius you have working with you. The skater themselves still have to do the program clean on the ice.

 

[R.D.]

^ Exactly. However, I also think the coach can, or should be able to help (or direct the skater to someone who can help) with the nerves. Ultimately it's just the skater and the ice, but the coach should help her out as much as he/she can to do her best, and this includes tips for becoming a better competitor as well as solid preparation.

 

[SeaniBu]

I also think the coach can, or should be able to help (or direct the skater to someone who can help) ...

I wonder if Robin suggested going to Nicks?? Sorry to keep bring her up in particular. But the "Wagner year" seems the most mysterious to me.

btw, am I the only one who sees the comments of "hijacking a thread" as the same as "hijacking the tread. If that is to define not placing a post on topic, then talking about hijacking is hijacking in it's self.

Topics ebb and flow. The topics come up via the original topic. So to say they can't continue with the flow...???

It will come back around. expl above.

 

[blue dog]

No--I think most of the problems, as the others have stated and will continue to restate is that Sasha just did not have that competitive fire. The only time Sasha seemed to fight was at the Olympics, when she fell twice, and realized that she might not even medal.

Not even the likes of Jutta Mueller would have made her tougher.

 

[jennylovskt]

I btw, am I the only one who sees the comments of "hijacking a thread" as the same as "hijacking the tread. If that is to define not placing a post on topic, then talking about hijacking is hijacking in it's self.

Topics ebb and flow. The topics come up via the original topic. So to say they can't continue with the flow...???

It will come back around. expl above.

Thanks for pointing this out. That's my English problem. Sometimes, I only know the sound of it but not sure the word.

 

[Spun Silver]

Recently I watched a very early vid of her (2000) where she clearly suffered deeply when she did less well than expected. The sorrow on her face - not momentary but throughout the K&C - was heartbreaking in one so young. There is something more fragile about her than one would expect in a champion. She seems to have the kind of perfectionism that causes problems.

But I disagree that no one could help her with it. Over time and with help one does learn new habits.

On the other hand, what she *has* accomplished is astounding in view of her over-sensitivity, which for a competitive athlete amounts to a psychological handicap. And - since our weaknesses are often also the source of our gifts - we can be grateful for her oversensitivity and perfectionism since they contribute to such exquisite performances.

 

[SeaniBu]

The only time Sasha seemed to fight was at the Olympics,

I wonder about that, I have seen a even more determined look on her face than any looks I saw at Olys. Just that season too. ??? But I could be wrong. ?????

 

[Dee4707]

Thanks for pointing out this. That's my English problem. Sometimes, I only know the sound of it but not sure the word.

Don't worry about it, you're English is just fine. I knew what you were saying.

Dee

 

[Tinymavy15]

Recently I watched a very early vid of her (2000) where she clearly suffered deeply when she did less well than expected. The sorrow on her face - not momentary but throughout the K&C - was heartbreaking in one so young. There is something more fragile about her than one would expect in a champion. She seems to have the kind of perfectionism that causes problems.

But I disagree that no one could help her with it. Over time and with help one does learn new habits.

On the other hand, what she *has* accomplished is astounding in view of her over-sensitivity, which for a competitive athlete amounts to a psychological handicap. And - since our weaknesses are often also the source of our gifts - we can be grateful for her oversensitivity and perfectionism since they contribute to such exquisite performances.

yes that was the 2000 junior worlds short program. She fell on her double axel and i belive on her flip. She had to medal at junior worlds (dispite her amazing performnaces at senior nationals) if she wanted to go to junior worlds. and she knew after that short her chances were gone. my heart went out to her then, she was so young and so tiny and so upset. she took her skating very seriously.

on a side thought, her LP at junior worlds was great, and you could clearly see the fight, especilly in the later part of the program. She came back with a vengance, but the judges were nitwits and seriously undermarked her.. leaving her in 6th.

 

[jennylovskt]

Don't worry about it, you're English is just fine. I knew what you were saying.

Dee

Thanks, Dee!

 

[dancindiva03]

Am I the only one who thinks that maybe Robin could have been quite good for Sasha, if Sasha wasn't so bull-headed all the time? I'm not saying that Robin isn't a bit kooky, but if Sasha would have stayed with her a bit longer she might have seen some real improvements. Everyone complains about Robin watering down Swan Lake into a puddle, but I don't think it was an unreasonable idea, to try to get Sasha to focus on the elements before the artistry to try to find some consistancy. Sometimes you have to tear someone down before you can build them up. I changed coaches this year, and the new one has gone right back to the basics and changed the way I do a lot of things. It was hard at first, I struggled with everything for a few months but after nearly a year now my skating is so much stronger. Sasha, IMHO, is always looking for the quick fix, she wanted a coach who could snap his/her fingers and fix whatever it is that lies at the root of Sasha's problems. No one can do that. She just needed to be patient and actually listen to a coach for a while, but she wanted instant results. Her loss.

 

[Spun Silver]

How do you know that about Sasha? Just curious.

 

[dancindiva03]

How do you know that about Sasha? Just curious.

How does anybody know anything about Sasha? I'm just calling it the way I see it. I'm not saying I'm 100% correct, its just my opinion. I've simply taken what I have heard her say, or read what she has said in interviews, in conjunction with what others have said after seeing her in person, and formed an opinion based on that.

 

[R.D.]

:agree:

 

[jennylovskt]

Sasha, IMHO, is always looking for the quick fix, she wanted a coach who could snap his/her fingers and fix whatever it is that lies at the root of Sasha's problems. No one can do that. She just needed to be patient and actually listen to a coach for a while, but she wanted instant results. Her loss.

Good point! I felt the same.

 

[antmanb]

It may not have been Sasha and TT's clashing personalities but Sasha's mom. I think TT is a woman in control and the quicker you learn that the better off you'll be. I don't mean that harshly because I also think TT would bend over backwards for her skaters. As a coach, she is in control, no doubts in her mind of who's the boss. If she can tame Alexei, she can tame anyone. I think it was Ilia Kulik who commented about TT being a taskmaster. There may have been interferences that we know nothing about. All I know is I loved TT swan program for Sasha, it was wonderful.

Dee

Didn't someone recently ( i think it may have been kathleen bangs) comment that she asked Sasha Abt about whether he'd ever considered moving to TT and he said that he wasn't prepared to make that kind of sacrifice because there would eb skating and nothing else...i'm paraphrasing badly but that was the impression.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Recently I watched a very early vid of her (2000) where she clearly suffered deeply when she did less well than expected. The sorrow on her face - not momentary but throughout the K&C - was heartbreaking in one so young. There is something more fragile about her than one would expect in a champion. She seems to have the kind of perfectionism that causes problems.

But I disagree that no one could help her with it. Over time and with help one does learn new habits.

On the other hand, what she *has* accomplished is astounding in view of her over-sensitivity, which for a competitive athlete amounts to a psychological handicap. And - since our weaknesses are often also the source of our gifts - we can be grateful for her oversensitivity and perfectionism since they contribute to such exquisite performances.

I think Sasha did have the competitive fire all the way up to the end of the SLC olympic year and then that aggressive energy she always seemed to have disappeared. There have been flashes of it since (like Torino after the falls) but by and large i think Sasha had that fire until she was on the brink of making it to the to pand then her own perfectionism spooked her at competitions and then got into a vicious circle. I still say she'd have done better to skate to strong, even dark pieces of music and really use that agressive energy to get her through teh programs rather than trying to be a pretty ballerina skating to pretty music.

Ant

 

[Jaana]

No--I think most of the problems, as the others have stated and will continue to restate is that Sasha just did not have that competitive fire.

I think that Sasha had a very strong competitive fire (maybe even a bit too strong), but she did not have the ability or knowledge how to control & use that fire to produce results. Of course she achieved excellent results in many competitions, but with her talent/potential and right approach for competitions she would have been able to do much more, in my opinion.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

No one has mentioned Sasha's SPs. Malaguena and Dark Eyes were faultless and excellently performed. Sasha's SPs after SLC were consistently putting her in first place before the LP.

What happens during the LPs that keeps her from holding on to 1st place?

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Did Sasha really "fail to reach the top?" Who was the most successful lady skater of the last four years? Here are the placements of the top four in 2003 worlds, 2004 worlds, 2005 worlds, and 2006 Olympics.

Kwan: 1st, 3rd, 4th, ---
Slutskaya: ---, 9th, 1st, 3rd
Arakawa: 8th, 1st, 9th, 1st (at Japanese nationals: 3rd, 3rd, ---, 3rd)
Cohen: 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd