Yuzuru Hanyu: 2014-15 Season
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Try this link: HereI could't see this video.
Thank you!
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Mishin's interview. Mostly about his experience and his students but there's a small part he mentioned Yuzuru. http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...sider-myself-a-good-coach.95491/#post-4511590
He thinks Yuzuru is too flexible so he often falls. I don't agree. Plushy did both Biellmann and Donut spin. And Yuzuru's trouble this season has a lot to do with injuries and stamina.
He thinks Yuzuru is too flexible so he often falls. I don't agree. Plushy did both Biellmann and Donut spin. And Yuzuru's trouble this season has a lot to do with injuries and stamina.
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- Jun 9, 2014
I disagree as well. His only inconsistency last season was the 4S and that was mainly a mental block IMO. His problem has alot of do that and stamina. Especially stamina
Prime examples: Patrick whos not flexible is majority inconsistent as well. And Lena Radionova who is hyper flexible is exteremely consistent even when shes off.
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I think people exagerate too much Yuzuru's falls. It's because falls make such an impact on the performance and Yuzuru falls or pops instead of UR, two foot etc but overall I don't think he's any worse in consistency than any other top men, flexibility has nothing to do with it in my opinion. If it were because of this then why Jason usually UR or two foot instead of falling? It's all in the mindset of the skater. I remember an interview where Daisuke said that he had a certain 6.0 mindset because he was raised in it and was afraid of falling, I don't know if it was in the beginning of his career, or after, I don't know the details. Anyway, he was embarassed to fall that's why when he felt like the take off for the jump was wrong he would be hesitant and end up UR or twofoot. Different skaters, different people.
In Yuzuru's case, he's a bit insane, he always goes for it, it doesn't matter how, he's the type of person to throw a 3T after a horrible 3Lz landing even if this makes absolutely no sense, but he goes for it and then >> fall. While other skaters are the type to double or just skip the 3T altogether, which is better for the performance but this just doesn't sound very Yuzuru for me. Also, there's a ton of other factors, injuries, stamina, and of course mind, sometimes the skater is just not at the moment, sometimes it's just simple as this. I guess it's because he's the most in the spotlight and I see that people can get quite annoyed when the person expected to win wipes the floor in all of the performances. However, Yuzuru is consistent in doing 1, 2 errors per program but almost never does meltdowns. I wish he would do clean performances once in a while though, this alone would change the perception a lot, but this might be even more difficult next season.
In Yuzuru's case, he's a bit insane, he always goes for it, it doesn't matter how, he's the type of person to throw a 3T after a horrible 3Lz landing even if this makes absolutely no sense, but he goes for it and then >> fall. While other skaters are the type to double or just skip the 3T altogether, which is better for the performance but this just doesn't sound very Yuzuru for me. Also, there's a ton of other factors, injuries, stamina, and of course mind, sometimes the skater is just not at the moment, sometimes it's just simple as this. I guess it's because he's the most in the spotlight and I see that people can get quite annoyed when the person expected to win wipes the floor in all of the performances. However, Yuzuru is consistent in doing 1, 2 errors per program but almost never does meltdowns. I wish he would do clean performances once in a while though, this alone would change the perception a lot, but this might be even more difficult next season.
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Even with all of his injuries he has problems only with quads and 3Lz (on top of that - mostly in SP)....Hi
Not posted before, but I just had to add my comments on that article. I don't agree with Mishin, at all, I think the way he says it is also quite disparaging.
But I guess that conclusion can be reached from the way that he falls, his arms and legs just seem to go everywhere!
Not posted before, but I just had to add my comments on that article. I don't agree with Mishin, at all, I think the way he says it is also quite disparaging.
But I guess that conclusion can be reached from the way that he falls, his arms and legs just seem to go everywhere!
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I don't see the correlation between his arms and legs spreading everywhere and his flexibility ... For me this happens because 1. Yuzuru's body type of course, but not the flexibility, just the aesthetics. But this isn't the cause of it, just one possible explanation for the way his fall 'looks' 2. As I said, the way he just "goes for it" and just throws himself at his jumps like there's no tomorrow.
Plus his high speed of rotation. Big impulse --> Spetacular fallChan also has some spetacular falls (the best i'd say lol) and that's probably because of his skating skills and speed on the ice, he enters his jumps with tons of speed, so the same happens.
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It reminds me of what Brian said about Hanyu around the time when he started coaching him: to him the kid seemed to have 16 arms and legs ^^And Tracy was the one to say that his jumps were sensational and his falls spectacular ! But this makes his skating very unique actually: because he holds nothing back.
But just like you guys said I don't think Yuzu' body type is the cause of his falls: it actually helps him jump in a way that to Kurt Browning seems bewildering because so natural! The reasons for his falls are most likely his lack of stamina of course and the way he throws his body in every elements he does: he will jump no matter what!
Sorry, I don't think I was clear.
: I don't think that it is his flexibility has any correlation with his falls. (Although sometimes when he falls, especially when he was younger, it reminds me of a puppy who hasn't yet grown into their limbs- so cute.) I meant that people could see him falling like that, and think it was linked to his flexibility because of the abandon of his arms and legs.
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- Jun 21, 2014
Sorry, I don't think I was clear.
No problem! Now I understand.
Yes, maybe it could lead to this conclusion, even if we personally don't think it's the right one. (Also, he reminds me more of a calf or colt, with the enormous legs )I don't think he meant to be disparaging. To me it sounds like he's making excuses why Liza isn't a better spinner and it's "because to be a good jumper you can't have the flexibility of a good spinner" and throws a first example of a skater who's known for flexibilty, conviniently forgetting that Yuzuru doesn't actually fall more often than other guys at all. (This season the ratio might not be favorable to him but we all know what's to blame and it's not flexibility, heh.) So yeah, I think the theory "Hanyu fallls because he's flexible" is rubbish.
Oh Mishin, he's a great coach but I also think that felixibility/body type argument doesn't fit Yuzuru. If something, I think it helps his jumps. He's able to get more height and have such light landings, as Kurt said, his upper body is completely relaxed, which also reflects how strong he is as he doesn't need to put tension in all of his body to land. One of the main things that sets Yuzuru apart from the rest of the men is his jumps.
I don't think Mishin should have used a guy to compare when he's being asked about Liza. Although it's the same sport, the men's and ladies' have taken different paths, mainly because there is no quad with the ladies and the scoring works different (with the factoring and all). Men's scoring gets less affected by falls than ladies' scoring, so they guys can push the technicals and risk a fall or two, everybody falls or has a failure one way or another (UR, two feet, popped jumps). But falls, though the more noticeable, are the less costly point-wise.
With the ladies, as no one tried to go for the 3A other than Mao in the recent years, and now Liza, the consistency was basic. Just like Mishin said it himself in that interview, all the elements have been mastered, well, the guys haven't reached that level yet becuase of the difficulty of the jumps. If you don't go for difficult jumps, you make up for it by executing everything as well as you can (go ask Jason). I think that's why is not as common to see the top ladies falling, unlike the men.
I don't think Mishin should have used a guy to compare when he's being asked about Liza. Although it's the same sport, the men's and ladies' have taken different paths, mainly because there is no quad with the ladies and the scoring works different (with the factoring and all). Men's scoring gets less affected by falls than ladies' scoring, so they guys can push the technicals and risk a fall or two, everybody falls or has a failure one way or another (UR, two feet, popped jumps). But falls, though the more noticeable, are the less costly point-wise.
With the ladies, as no one tried to go for the 3A other than Mao in the recent years, and now Liza, the consistency was basic. Just like Mishin said it himself in that interview, all the elements have been mastered, well, the guys haven't reached that level yet becuase of the difficulty of the jumps. If you don't go for difficult jumps, you make up for it by executing everything as well as you can (go ask Jason). I think that's why is not as common to see the top ladies falling, unlike the men.
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- Mar 17, 2015
I find it really interesting what Mishin is saying. I think it is a good theory and it could make sense. Since the muscles are more lax and flexible, they extend more and are too elastic when there is the impact of the landing.
The problem is in the practice, the numbers don't seem to confirm that.
Plushy was super flexible and fell like what? 10 times in his entire career
Slutskaya was flexible and didn't fall much
Mao is very flexible and she hardly ever falls but usually pops, underrotate or two-foot when she messes up
Elena R. never falls
All the Russian junior girls are flexible and seem to be very consistent
I think of two girls that could verify his theory. Yulia L and Sacha Cohen. But Sacha's falls seemed to be more mental- related and Julia more puberty related (and mental as well).
So I don't know. As a lot of people said, I don't think Yuzuru falls any more than the other top guys. Javi and Chan fall as much and even more than Yuzu and they are not flexible. Ten is inconsistent as well but more flexible than these two. So that is where I disagree with Mishin when he says "that is why he falls so much".
But that said, when he actually falls, idk maybe his flexibility actually plays a role?! and he would be falling even less if he was less flexible? who knows? Because his knee bend helps him a lot in landing, giving him more time and helping him lend "bad jumps" but maybe his overall flexibility affects, i am not sure how to explain, his core tightness something like that. That is why i would like Mishin to elaborate on that idea.
Also regarding Liza she is not super flexible like Yulia or Elena but she is still flexible and does the biellman for example.
The problem is in the practice, the numbers don't seem to confirm that.
Plushy was super flexible and fell like what? 10 times in his entire career
Slutskaya was flexible and didn't fall much
Mao is very flexible and she hardly ever falls but usually pops, underrotate or two-foot when she messes up
Elena R. never falls
All the Russian junior girls are flexible and seem to be very consistent
I think of two girls that could verify his theory. Yulia L and Sacha Cohen. But Sacha's falls seemed to be more mental- related and Julia more puberty related (and mental as well).
So I don't know. As a lot of people said, I don't think Yuzuru falls any more than the other top guys. Javi and Chan fall as much and even more than Yuzu and they are not flexible. Ten is inconsistent as well but more flexible than these two. So that is where I disagree with Mishin when he says "that is why he falls so much".
But that said, when he actually falls, idk maybe his flexibility actually plays a role?! and he would be falling even less if he was less flexible? who knows? Because his knee bend helps him a lot in landing, giving him more time and helping him lend "bad jumps" but maybe his overall flexibility affects, i am not sure how to explain, his core tightness something like that. That is why i would like Mishin to elaborate on that idea.
Also regarding Liza she is not super flexible like Yulia or Elena but she is still flexible and does the biellman for example.
In general, you will find many good jumpers who are not flexible (e.g. Yuna Kim, Anna P. Liza, Wakaba, Midori Ito). That seems to apply to many good jumpers. People who are naturally flexible generally don't have good jumping abilities (e.g. Some of the Russian girls). There does seem to be an inverse relationship between natural jumping abilities and natural flexibilities. Yuzuru is really the exception though. It's rare to find someone like him who has outstanding jumping abilities and outstanding flexibilities. (There is no one else like him, is there?) Yuzuru is probably the wrong example Mishin used. (He probably should use someone else, like Javi.) I don't think Yuzuru's falls are related to his flexibilities, because he doesn't fall more than other men who are less flexible.
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I don't know...the way I see it, if there was some correlation between flexibility and jumping, wouldn't more flexibility actually help you save some landings? But I could be completely off on this, since I'm not familiar at all with the motions behind jumps. Either way, though, I'm inclined to think that there's really no correlation at all; there are too many exceptions.
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- Feb 12, 2015
The melody is very touching, but the whole vodeo just brings out the beauty of Yuzuru's skating, and of Yuzuru in general. Thanks for the link, I loved that video! :yes:
