Yuzuru Hanyu: 2017-2018
- Thread starter GS Forum Staff
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
Yuzu's P&G cm has warranted: 2 trailers, 1 000 000 000 news features on the trailers, trailers winning CM rankings, cameo by plushenko & news article w/ new screencaps. it better win an oscar
The hype is soo much.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
Even if Plushenko says Yuzu is a different skater than the others, and we all agree, it does not change the fact that Shoma is getting the same PCS as him and Nathan's PCS is rising and will reach Yuzuru's by OG. No matter what we as spectators see, the judges see these three at the same level. So how do you expect Yuzu to be calm and just stick to his 3-quad layout when they are breathing right behind his neck?
Starting 2016 season Javier decided to stick to his layout, what was the result so far? Patrick stuck to his layout in 2014 while Yuzu was getting closer and closer, what was the result? He has seen all these, he is far more experienced than you and I in FS competitions. Sticking to 3-quad layout means putting his fate in the mercy of judges and waiting for others to make mistakes. Do you really think it is a safer strategy? I would be more nervous with such a strategy.
We know, his favourite word is "Kuyashi", he will repeat it forever if he does not go all out in OG and, Heaven forbid, looses by an inch. Just remember that in 2017 he won against Shoma only by about 2 points. I hope he does whatever he can at the moment so he won't feel "kuyashi" after OG.
Starting 2016 season Javier decided to stick to his layout, what was the result so far? Patrick stuck to his layout in 2014 while Yuzu was getting closer and closer, what was the result? He has seen all these, he is far more experienced than you and I in FS competitions. Sticking to 3-quad layout means putting his fate in the mercy of judges and waiting for others to make mistakes. Do you really think it is a safer strategy? I would be more nervous with such a strategy.
We know, his favourite word is "Kuyashi", he will repeat it forever if he does not go all out in OG and, Heaven forbid, looses by an inch. Just remember that in 2017 he won against Shoma only by about 2 points. I hope he does whatever he can at the moment so he won't feel "kuyashi" after OG.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
It's been a while since I've done a tl;dr but here it goes:
I think this idea that he only needs 3 quads to win is a fallacy. Yes, if we look at Yuzu's best scores, his 330 achieved with 2+3 quads, with only the 'easy' 4T and 4S, still stands to this day. But how likely would Yuzu, with those same quads, be able to replicate the circumstances that would give him that so far unsurpassed 330? We look at Javi and Patrick and bless them, they're amazing, but they're also posterboys of how you need to be absolutely foot perfect in order to stay competitive with the higher BVs of other skaters who are also improving in GOEs and PCS. And how hard it is to be clean even with lower BV.
Yuzu's greatest opponents right now aren't staying still either; they will be gaining momentum throughout the season and they're packing some BV ammunition. Shoma is very close to Yuzu's scores, closer than any other man right now, and his GOE/PCS potential is as great as Yuzu's. And unfortunately, there's also the factor of narratives surrounding perceived weakness in keeping up with the quad race as well as pressure to do so, especially from Japanese media and its quad obsession.
Then we add the fact that going back to a 3-quad layout seems to be complete opposite to Yuzu's personality, bless his stubborn self. I feel like he's going to need at the very least 4 quads, with the 4Lo, with those 3 quads in the second half, in order to at least feel like he is challenging something even if he ends up not doing the 4Lz. My feeling is that Brian will be weary of the 4Lz and might caution Yuzu not to risk it. But it depends entirely on Yuzu, his feelings for the jump, its training and the weight of the ratio of risk/reward in using it in his layout, especially now he's been set back.
Yuzu's layout for Olympics and whether it can or cannot include 4Lz is dependent on three things right now: conditioning, competition practice and psychological issues.
Conditioning: His injury set him back on that. He needs 10 days rest then he's hoping to get back into competition shape in 3-4 weeks. But he won't be able to immediately start training quads at the beginning of his return to the ice, so exactly how much he'll make up for in terms of strength, stamina, conditioning, quad training and success rate we'll need to wait and see. However quick and successful his recovery goes, I am somewhat doubtful of him being ready for a 5-quad layout by Japan Nationals so I think he'll have to water it down for that competition. Also, my hope is that he is reigned in a bit (by himself or his team) because he's also been known to try to overtrain to make up for lost time.
Competition experience: Yuzu himself said he needed to take every opportunity to test out the 4Lz, as the newest and more unstable jump in his layout this season, in competition. Unfortunately he has now lost his last opportunities to do so. The only competition I could see him using to test that jump out prior to the Olympics would be 4CC as his conditioning should be much better by then. Could we possibly see him there? If his name is assigned to that competition, then I feel like the 4Lz might return.
Psychological issues: As Daisuke Takahashi said recently, there is also the factor of fear of injury again so close to the Olympics and how that'll affect his quad training. This is something he will have to deal with but I trust he'll get over it soon enough.
Also, let's all remember that it wasn't the 4Lz's fault that Yuzu injured himself. It was bad luck it was on that particular jump but it could have been in any other quad. He was recovering from a fever, so that had repurcussions; he wasn't getting enough height on jumps and he decided (wrongly, as it turned out) that he was fine enough to try full rotations on a jump that required more height than he'd apparently been able to achieve so far in that practice session.
I think this idea that he only needs 3 quads to win is a fallacy. Yes, if we look at Yuzu's best scores, his 330 achieved with 2+3 quads, with only the 'easy' 4T and 4S, still stands to this day. But how likely would Yuzu, with those same quads, be able to replicate the circumstances that would give him that so far unsurpassed 330? We look at Javi and Patrick and bless them, they're amazing, but they're also posterboys of how you need to be absolutely foot perfect in order to stay competitive with the higher BVs of other skaters who are also improving in GOEs and PCS. And how hard it is to be clean even with lower BV.
Yuzu's greatest opponents right now aren't staying still either; they will be gaining momentum throughout the season and they're packing some BV ammunition. Shoma is very close to Yuzu's scores, closer than any other man right now, and his GOE/PCS potential is as great as Yuzu's. And unfortunately, there's also the factor of narratives surrounding perceived weakness in keeping up with the quad race as well as pressure to do so, especially from Japanese media and its quad obsession.
Then we add the fact that going back to a 3-quad layout seems to be complete opposite to Yuzu's personality, bless his stubborn self. I feel like he's going to need at the very least 4 quads, with the 4Lo, with those 3 quads in the second half, in order to at least feel like he is challenging something even if he ends up not doing the 4Lz. My feeling is that Brian will be weary of the 4Lz and might caution Yuzu not to risk it. But it depends entirely on Yuzu, his feelings for the jump, its training and the weight of the ratio of risk/reward in using it in his layout, especially now he's been set back.
Yuzu's layout for Olympics and whether it can or cannot include 4Lz is dependent on three things right now: conditioning, competition practice and psychological issues.
Conditioning: His injury set him back on that. He needs 10 days rest then he's hoping to get back into competition shape in 3-4 weeks. But he won't be able to immediately start training quads at the beginning of his return to the ice, so exactly how much he'll make up for in terms of strength, stamina, conditioning, quad training and success rate we'll need to wait and see. However quick and successful his recovery goes, I am somewhat doubtful of him being ready for a 5-quad layout by Japan Nationals so I think he'll have to water it down for that competition. Also, my hope is that he is reigned in a bit (by himself or his team) because he's also been known to try to overtrain to make up for lost time.
Competition experience: Yuzu himself said he needed to take every opportunity to test out the 4Lz, as the newest and more unstable jump in his layout this season, in competition. Unfortunately he has now lost his last opportunities to do so. The only competition I could see him using to test that jump out prior to the Olympics would be 4CC as his conditioning should be much better by then. Could we possibly see him there? If his name is assigned to that competition, then I feel like the 4Lz might return.
Psychological issues: As Daisuke Takahashi said recently, there is also the factor of fear of injury again so close to the Olympics and how that'll affect his quad training. This is something he will have to deal with but I trust he'll get over it soon enough.
Also, let's all remember that it wasn't the 4Lz's fault that Yuzu injured himself. It was bad luck it was on that particular jump but it could have been in any other quad. He was recovering from a fever, so that had repurcussions; he wasn't getting enough height on jumps and he decided (wrongly, as it turned out) that he was fine enough to try full rotations on a jump that required more height than he'd apparently been able to achieve so far in that practice session.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2016
I think Yuzuru can do without the Lutz. He can try it some other year but I think he'll do well without it this season. I also agree that Yuzuru's skating is completely different from other skaters. He blends every element in, I mean the transitions he executes at such speed alone is impressive (I don't think anyone else can match this, Javi executes a lot of transitions too but not as much as Yuzuru does). He can just rack up points by GOEs. In any case, I pray he recovers well in time.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
It seems the opinions on the number of quads Yuzuru needs are differ among the journalists, commentators or skaters. Plushenko says three while Minoru Sano says 5. But the common point is that almost all of them think that he doesn't need 4Lz.
Personally, I don't see Yuzuru decreases the number of quads to only 3, he is likely to do 4 at least in the Olympics. Of course, if he is healthy enough, he will stick to 5 quads, even though not sure about 4Lz. It will all depend on his condition, and I also hope he won't have any regret after the Olympics whatever he chooses.
I really appreciate Plushenko's comments, he made me being positive (I'm very easy, I know
). I hope Yuzuru read or hear his supportive words.
Personally, I don't see Yuzuru decreases the number of quads to only 3, he is likely to do 4 at least in the Olympics. Of course, if he is healthy enough, he will stick to 5 quads, even though not sure about 4Lz. It will all depend on his condition, and I also hope he won't have any regret after the Olympics whatever he chooses.
I really appreciate Plushenko's comments, he made me being positive (I'm very easy, I know
). I hope Yuzuru read or hear his supportive words.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2014
He was also working with an 11 point deficit of his usual potential after a SP though. Shoma skated about as well as he could have skated.
It's wonderful to see my prior fave so supportive of my latest fave. However, I do think 3 quads will not quite be enough this time around. Yuzu was able to do 4 quads three times last season and was already up to 3 at CoR, so I think 4 is possible if he doesn't do the lutz here. But I also worry about Yuzu competing too close to the Olympics. If he skated his ideal skates at 4CC and not at the games... Some people think he should skip Nats too. I am so ambivalent about all of this. At the same time the idea of not seeing him at all again until the Olympics gives me PRE-traumatic stress disorder. I'll be there and I have a Row A ticket (for the SPs at least), so there'll be nowhere to hide
.When Plushy says Yuzu only needs three quads, I assume he's saying he only needs 3 different quads (toe, sal, loop) i.e. the quad content Yuzu was doing before he added the 4Lz. So basically, Plushy is talking about 4-5 quads in FS being enough.
Or is there something in his comments that I'm missing and that would support the assumption others here are making that Plushy is suggesting Yuzu doesn't need the 4Lo?
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2014
In a prior interview I ready on NBC olympics I think he specifically said yuzu really only needed a toe and a couple of sals.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
Yeah, I read that too, which kind of informed my perceptions of his words in my post. Though nimi is also right and he could simply be talking about 3 different quads, since the 4Lo was successful for him last season (well, moderately
). All in all, he's going to need those 3 different quads at the very least. And up until this small setback, I was very happy and excited for the 4Lz (it's a beauty when landed correctly) but with the lack of competition testing, it starts to weigh a bit more on the too risky side of that equation he'll have to sort out.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
He was also working with an 11 point deficit of his usual potential after a SP though. Shoma skated about as well as he could have skated.
It's wonderful to see my prior fave so supportive of my latest fave. However, I do think 3 quads will not quite be enough this time around. Yuzu was able to do 4 quads three times last season and was already up to 3 at CoR, so I think 4 is possible if he doesn't do the lutz here. But I also worry about Yuzu competing too close to the Olympics. If he skated his ideal skates at 4CC and not at the games... Some people think he should skip Nats too. I am so ambivalent about all of this. At the same time the idea of not seeing him at all again until the Olympics gives me PRE-traumatic stress disorder. I'll be there and I have a Row A ticket (for the SPs at least), so there'll be nowhere to hide
Wow, I hope you survive this experience because personally I wouldn't
Let's remember that his perfect FS in 2017 was the lowest-marked world record ever. They really held back on his GOEs, didn't they? There is no guarantee that they don't do it again in OG. That is why I'm afraid that he can not count on his intricate transitions, inhumane skating skills, deep and unique interpretation, and, ... to get high PCS and perfect GOEs :confused2:
I'm sorry but he has no safe margin to sit back and relax and believe me he knows it with every cell in his body. That's why he has trained harder than anyone. When Brian was talking about Javier's plan to stick to his layout he mentioned that "for the last year Javi saw how Yuzu was torturing himself to get the loop consistent". It is sad for us that love him so much but this is the cruelty of the professional sport and he has dived in with open eyes.
4Lz... 
Agree with Xeyra that it’s not the problem of the 4Lz. Whether he will be doing it or not, it’s really up to the next few weeks when he is back on ice, and start training again, his confidence about jumping the 4Lz, if his feet is back to it’s full recovery, how others is doing in the rest of the GP, etc. For sure he will be doing a lot of calculations.
It looks unlikely that he will be at 4CC, since 4CC is only a week and a bit before opening of Olympic, and he will very likely be at the Oly team event and the opening ceremony (JSF won’t let him skip either of it, that’s for sure). It is reasonable that Team Orser would try to avoid getting him exhausted from competitions due to his asthma, and if he go to 4CC, that means he will have to do 3 competitions in 4 weeks time, and the men’s event will be the last one, which is not ideal.
Agree with Xeyra that it’s not the problem of the 4Lz. Whether he will be doing it or not, it’s really up to the next few weeks when he is back on ice, and start training again, his confidence about jumping the 4Lz, if his feet is back to it’s full recovery, how others is doing in the rest of the GP, etc. For sure he will be doing a lot of calculations. It looks unlikely that he will be at 4CC, since 4CC is only a week and a bit before opening of Olympic, and he will very likely be at the Oly team event and the opening ceremony (JSF won’t let him skip either of it, that’s for sure). It is reasonable that Team Orser would try to avoid getting him exhausted from competitions due to his asthma, and if he go to 4CC, that means he will have to do 3 competitions in 4 weeks time, and the men’s event will be the last one, which is not ideal.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2014
Wow, I hope you survive this experience because personally I wouldn't
I'm having a crisis already so hopefully I'm getting it out of my system to handle it in game time. I can't even watch a GP live most of the time. I still don't know how I survived Boston and Helsinki (well I had a drink in helsinki that wore off around when he was about to skate). I didn't sign up for this roller coaster but there is no getting off. Yuzu is like Hotel California. "You can check in anytime you like, but you can never leave."
When South Korea announced the Olympics in 2011 I knew I was going to go to the games and would be able to hang out with one of my best friends who had just moved there. I wasn't planning on ubering anyone in particular. This was just a bucket list thing I wanted to do. Surely there could never be another Sasha or Plushenko for me... I clearly needed a crystal ball that day 
.I'm envisioning: http://blogs.coventry.ac.uk/uncovered/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2016/08/giphy-zach-.gif4Lz...
It looks unlikely that he will be at 4CC, since 4CC is only a week and a bit before opening of Olympic, and he will very likely be at the Oly team event and the opening ceremony (JSF won’t let him skip either of it, that’s for sure). It is reasonable that Team Orser would try to avoid getting him exhausted from competitions due to his asthma, and if he go to 4CC, that means he will have to do 3 competitions in 4 weeks time, and the men’s event will be the last one, which is not ideal.
The Team Event SPs are the next day after the opening ceremony so I don't think Yuzu will be there. I don't expect many, if any, that are doing the team pairs and men's sp to be at the opening ceremony. The athletes usually need a little recovery because it's an exhausting event. Was Yuzu in the opening ceremony in Sochi btw? And can we recall when men's team SP was in relation to that?
Yeah, I read that too, which kind of informed my perceptions of his words in my post. Though nimi is also right and he could simply be talking about 3 different quads, since the 4Lo was successful for him last season (well, moderately
Hey now, the 4Lo was one of his most consistent jumps last season! With the exception of Skate Canada (and ignoring WTT) he landed it each time - although he had a step out at NHK Trophy SP. The only quad that really needed some work was the 4S3T combo, his solo 4S was pretty on the money throughout the season as was the 4T.
What was the most frustrating was seeing him do clean RT of LGC during practices so often but not being able to replicate it in competition (although GPF was clean enough for me). I’ll stand by my original hypothesis that once he lands a “problem” jump he usually no longer has issues with it (solo 4S at worlds 2014 and 4S3T at Worlds 2017).
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
Thank you for your information! I hope Yuzuru won't be in the opening ceremony although I really wanted to see him as flag-carrier some day (my dream :luv17
In Sochi Olympics, opening ceremony was held in the middle of Team event, so Japanese figure skaters didn't attend if my memory is correct. Men's SP of team event in figure skating was the very first event in Sochi Olympics and the opening ceremony was held after that. I remember the announcer of morning show was so excited that Yuzuru was in the 1st place in Men's SP, but said "The competition has already started even though the opening ceremony has not done yet!"
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
I thought the same as you at first, but he didn't talk about the types of quad except for 4Lz as far as I read the written articles, he only said "3 quads". (or I wonder if there was something lost in interpreters' work.)
Forgot to add that we still don't know how his 4Lz and 4Lo success rate was going between Rostelecom and NHK, and unfortunately because he couldn't compete we never got an idea what condition he was really at the time of the injury.
For all we know it was all on an upward trend before he got to Osaka and tried jumping difficult quads immediately after having a fever, and unless his team reveals anything about it to the public we will never know how his conditioning had been going. This is why I'm not necessarily against him attempting the lutz in the program, the fall could've happened on any jump attempt. Unless the injury gets aggravated by doing certain jumps, I expect him to stick to his layout for the Olympics.
For all we know it was all on an upward trend before he got to Osaka and tried jumping difficult quads immediately after having a fever, and unless his team reveals anything about it to the public we will never know how his conditioning had been going. This is why I'm not necessarily against him attempting the lutz in the program, the fall could've happened on any jump attempt. Unless the injury gets aggravated by doing certain jumps, I expect him to stick to his layout for the Olympics.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7Abf3tmQ22P6opCgCM at 1:25 you can see the new Advertisement. It's very nice.
