2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies SP

[R.D.]

If Ashley had skated clean, all her components would have gone up .25-.50 (especially PE and IN), and she'd be well into the 34s. Maybe, this just speaks to the US judges penalizing PCS for technical mistakes, which an international panel is very very loathe to do (see Carolina, also Medvedeva at NHK)

Exactly. IIRC Wagner not only stumbled out of the 3-3 but UR it as well. That is a *LOT* of points to leave on the table. I don’t buy that she was “robbed” or “hosed” - she once again made critical mistakes in the SP on a night where she could not afford to do so. Therefore, she is in this hole, her own doing.

Having said all that, she’s certainly not out of it yet. But she needs her best effort tomorrow...plus a mistake or two from Chen above her. Given both skaters’ histories, that’s not out of the question.

 

[Crossover]

I only saw the last two groups, so finally caught up with Polina's program. Wow, what a sass, and confidence on the ice. The music is Shen/Zhao's music and is rarely used for figure skating, so I honestly didn't have a high expectation from her who had been away from competition more than one year. However, I really enjoyed her performance much more than the time of her winning the 4CC title three years ago because now she can effectively convey feelings of music with her changed body (isn't she as tall as Russian Polina?) and facial expressions. Who could say that her skating is boring or bland, or too princesslike now? I also can totally dismiss the claim that she doesn't care about figure skating any more and her college life is her most priority as some people asserted, given her improvement PCS-wise such as her SS. I thought she was too underappreciated but it is true that she used to be one of the slowest skaters with shallow edges in the field, but she isn't any more for that too. It is a good indicator that she didn't get idle on practice at all, but she gave a lot of effort to improve her skating during her rehabilitation time. I think her family, friends and team as well as her fans would be very proud of her performance in the SP. The audience was very supportive too.

It is a great pity that her injuries made her skip almost two seasons and she still couldn't jump 3flip and 3lutz, so her jump layout is much lower than her previous form. Her first jump combo wasn't perfect, but I can see that her strong desire to return to the ice and she seemed to really enjoy her skating! Realistically speaking, she won't be going to Pyeongchang, but for Beijing, well we have to see. She is still very young. I don't also let out a hope for Gracie who has a plan to attend the event for her skating friends.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Ashley's would be higher internationally. She received higher scores this season for that SP internationally, and that was with worse performances of it. Her PCS here are strange - I think everyone assumed USFS wanted Ashley on the team more than any other skater, myself included, so the lowballing of PCS is beyond weird.

Hard to say with Angela. Again, she's been pretty irrelevant internationally for so long, the international judges would probably not know what to do with her (if she backed it up with a great LP, they'd probably be far more generous in the LP, and skate order would really aid her there).

Mirai and Karen received typical slight Nationals inflation for two favorites to make the team. Their scores make sense, though not in comparison to Ashley's.

Bradie's PCS are oddly high. I think USFS is excited about having someone who can rotate and land jumps consistently, and I don't blame them, considering the state of the US ladies. I'm also not sure if I agree with your assertion that Bradie wouldn't score that high (taking off a point or two for Nationals inflation) internationally. International judges seem to reward consistency, and maybe USFS is trying to get better at that? She also hit all of her levels, and has more transitions than any other US lady. These are the qualities that international judges are responding to in other skaters.

I agree with most of the things you are saying... But i watched Angela at Finlandia and they gave her 185 points, only Tukt with her best skate of a season, Caro and Maria were ahead of her, with Gaby and Korean ladies behind... If she skated at SA im pretty sure she would be scored higher there... When she is clean, she is not that worse than rest of the field... Her SP score internationally was 4,5 points behind Bradie who got that SP score at home soil, while here is 7 points difference. That was my point...

 

[Ross74]

I think I was most pleasantly surprised by Amber Glenn. Despite the mistake she made, I found her skating to be very pleasant and she looks to have a lot of potential. She also seems quite endearing and her personality in K&C was very cute! She is also very striking and pretty and actually reminds me a bit of Maria Sotskova, looks-wise . I remember reading she was having issues at the tail end of last season and had to drop out of some event? I'm glad it looks like she is doing better and I hope she has a great long program!

As was I. I never paid her much attention, but Amber had my favorite skate of the night.

 

[andromache]

I agree with most of the things you are saying... But i watched Angela at Finlandia and they gave her 185 points, only Tukt with her best skate of a season, Caro and Maria were ahead of her, with Gaby and Korean ladies behind... If she skated at SA im pretty sure she would be scored higher there... When she is clean, she is not that worse than rest of the field... Her SP score internationally was 4,5 points behind Bradie who got that SP score at home soil, while here is 7 points difference. That was my point...

Perhaps I am underrating her international appeal. She's one of those skaters who I refuse to get hyped about anymore because she always disappoints me, so I haven't paid super close attention to her scores. :hopelessness:

 

[jenaj]

Ashley is still the only one of the girls who has both the program and is competitive with the best skaters in the world. angela seemed undermarked. tennell, lacks strong positions. chen got a break. mirai can only go so far even with a triple axel she lacks presense. none of these but ashley can actually command the ice with tennell the closest but doesnt have world class positions (ie the grimace at the end)

Mirai actually has a very smart strategy. She never gets high PCS so her alleged lack of "presence" is not an issue. But with the 3A, even if she misses it, she has a good chance to score as high or higher as she would with a 2A. If she plans 8 triples, she can miss and still have a 7 triple program. Her score yesterday proves that with high tech, a skater can overcome mediocre PCS. The issue for her is rotating her jumps. If she skates her long program like she did at 4CC's last year, she can win easily. But there is not a lot of room for error if she wants the gold medal. For the Olympic team, she can afford an UR or maybe two, assuming she stands up on everything. Her non-jump elements are the best. Only Karen comes close.

 

[college pat]

I am just going to say good job to all.

i personally don't agree with the hype to Mirai. yes triple axel-so what if that was the case than tonya would have won despite falls,
mao most definitely would have won over Yuna more, and lets not for Miki's Ando quad when she first jumped up.

Mirai is okay but she could skate better. i think they hype has to do with her coaching /choreography staff. Great people, former skaters. brillant actually.

but is mirai that good she good but too me the score was a bit high; should have gotten ur for the 3x didn't ;;

i am still worried about the u.s. ladies at the olympics. there is a difference in the russian, japanese, u.s. ladies skaters. it isn't the russian, japanese are better- possible higher tech value;

it because when the U.S. ladies skate something's missing & can't put my finger on it.

It was kind of a let down for the Olympic trial national figure skating short.

but they did a great job. i don't know; it seemed off after mirai, and especially bradie's skate.

 

[mrrice]

If Bradie delivers in the LP the way she did at Skate America, I can't see her being beaten. Hopefully Mirai will deliver a great LP but, if she has UR's, I think the US judges will go with Bradie because of her medal from SA. Who knows what will happen with Ashley now that she has a completely new program.

Bradie still needs some refining but, she doesn't leave points on the ice like some of the other ladies. I just hope we have strong performances from the ladies who make the team.

 

[jenaj]

I am just going to say good job to all.

i personally don't agree with the hype to Mirai. yes triple axel-so what if that was the case than tonya would have won despite falls,
mao most definitely would have won over Yuna more, and lets not for Miki's Ando quad when she first jumped up.

Mirai is okay but she could skate better. i think they hype has to do with her coaching /choreography staff. Great people, former skaters. brillant actually.

but is mirai that good she good but too me the score was a bit high; should have gotten ur for the 3x didn't ;;

i am still worried about the u.s. ladies at the olympics. there is a difference in the russian, japanese, u.s. ladies skaters. it isn't the russian, japanese are better- possible higher tech value;

it because when the U.S. ladies skate something's missing & can't put my finger on it.

It was kind of a let down for the Olympic trial national figure skating short.

but they did a great job. i don't know; it seemed off after mirai, and especially bradie's skate.

Mirai didn't fall on her 3A. You are complaining about the system, not the skater. The system rewards jumps that are rotated even if they have a messy landing or even a fall. Why do you think Adam includes the 4-lutz, a jump that, as far as I know, he has never landed cleanly in competition? I think it is exciting that a skater is even trying a 3A. We know from practices she can land it. But even if she doesn't, it is kind of a wash because her score is likely to be as high or higher than a 2A.

 

[TontoK]

Not at all. I love Sotskova. And she is a stunningly gorgeous young woman. Sadly, the same can not be said for Bradie.

Considering your screen name and avatar, I find it hysterical that you are venomously critical of a technically proficient and consistent skater for being artistically uninspiring.

Thanks for the laughs.

 

[DexterK]

After reading many previous posts, this has just occurred to me... Assuming Bradie and Mirai finish gold and silver (in whatever order)...what do we think the committee will do if Angela wins the bronze at Nationals? (And let's say Ashley places 4th and Karen places 5th.) Do we think they would send Ashley? What if it is Ashley who finishes 5th, and Karen 4th, do we think they would send Karen instead?

So many questions will be answered in the next few days. Best of luck to all skaters, they all work so hard.

Moderators, if this type of thoughtful speculation is not allowed on this forum, then just delete it and send me a warning message to which I can't reply, lol.

 

[mrrice]

Considering your screen name and avatar, I find it hysterical that you are venomously critical of a technically proficient and consistent skater for being artistically uninspiring.

Thanks for the laughs.

KABOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dance2::dance:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Exactly. IIRC Wagner not only stumbled out of the 3-3 but UR it as well. That is a *LOT* of points to leave on the table. I don’t buy that she was “robbed” or “hosed” - she once again made critical mistakes in the SP on a night where she could not afford to do so. Therefore, she is in this hole, her own doing.

Having said all that, she’s certainly not out of it yet. But she needs her best effort tomorrow...plus a mistake or two from Chen above her. Given both skaters’ histories, that’s not out of the question.

So did Chen. And she easily got the highest PCS. And it's not like Karen was hitting her levels either.

They had the same BV interestingly enough.

I thought Ashley was particularly hosed on her 3L and 2A in terms of GOE. Like, 0's?! (I'm guessing the -3 was an input error).

 

[mrrice]

what do we think the committee will do if Angela wins the bronze at Nationals?

This is actually a good question. Angela has a been favorite of mine and is always a wildcard. I think it would depend on the committee. Frankly, NONE of the US Ladies have made a case that they deserve to be "Held Up." Since none of the ladies made the GPF, they should have to earn their way on the team by skating well under pressure.

Lord knows they have a supportive audience and friendly judges. If they can't bring it now.....I say go with the medalists and may the best skater win.

 

[college pat]

i wasn't criticizing the system. Just stating the obvious which was if the performance relied on one jump 3x or quad or even triple/triple in time past they would have
won regardless of how they & other skated.

Because they tried, landed the so -called jumps.

Figure skating needs the whole package. both jumps & artistry-. they are interwoven.

They are interwoven with music and how they show off that interpretation.

So if anyone else thinks i criticize the system. i am not. In fact i favor less hard jumps than the whole package.

What i stated is what i saw compared to earlier, past nationals in how they skaters skated to qualify for olympics,
not the system.

I apologize if i criticized Mirai skating. or anyone else. Yes, i have a favorite but no longer skating. Still watch.

Unfortunately i compare these current skaters, competitions to times past-.
While they was decent no where comparable. Yes what doing is harder but fully rotating jumps you can tell, but you can also see the difference in
holding their landings, edges, flow, speed, even in spins. Why review spins--rotate twice, make sure doesn't travel.

go back & look at the old like michelle, tara's, sjouke, irina's, surya's, dick's, peggy's, dorothy's, sarah's, sasha's, linda's, katarina'.

their is a difference.

What stunned me is the difference in skating of The russian & japanese & u.s. even carolina kostner's national skates.

the u.s. ladies brought what they had -their good, but how bad to they want it-whether it is the olympic medal, olympic team, world medal, four continents.

I can see they are skating well but just as i stated something's missing, even a non skater like me notices it . how much more a judge or tech caller.

 

[AngelENTL]

I do not have any issue with Bradie's PCS, at least relatively speaking. I think because she seems so secure in her jumps, she can pay attention to presentation throughout her program. Felt Karen Chen's overall PCS should be higher than Bradie's, and it was. I will say I would've called an e for Bradie's lutz, but it looks like no lutzes were e'd in the entire event (really?!), so maybe they are just being lenient.

 

[AKGROWN]

After reading many previous posts, this has just occurred to me... Assuming Bradie and Mirai finish gold and silver (in whatever order)...what do we think the committee will do if Angela wins the bronze at Nationals? (And let's say Ashley places 4th and Karen places 5th.) Do we think they would send Ashley? What if it is Ashley who finishes 5th, and Karen 4th, do we think they would send Karen instead?
.

Huh. I think that most people assumed that if something like this were to occur, the "spoiler" (i.e. the person in 3rd) would be someone more familiar and/or "in the mix" (i.e. Bell). I'm not sure people factored in Angela.

Additionally, can you imagine the irony of the above placements (Angela 3rd, Karen 4th and Ashley 5th) and USFS going with Karen? ANOTHER Olympic cycle were USFS dropped the 3rd place finisher at Nationals for the 4th place finisher.

The situation that I find equally as interesting and worrying is Ashley placing 4th and someone like Angela placing 3rd (by "someone" I mean an skater who is largely untested internationally and happens to make a move at Nationals but has otherwise not been in the mix/not been able to take advantage of opportunities to be in the mix) and USFS taking Ashley (who again, finished 4th). I think I'd feel bad for her (Ashley)... can you imagine having to live that down? Having been selected for 2 Olympic Teams by virtue of USFS overlooking a higher-placed skater?

 

[matcha]

Are you saying Bradie is the Sostkova of US ladies? I better tell my friends who have insomnia to watch her.

Hmm. Sotskova bores me, but I also feel like her skating is very earnest. She seems to have more of an emotional commitment to her programs than Tennell to me. In the US Ladies thread someone (looked it up, @GGFan) referred to her skating as 'workman-like' and I agree.

 

[matcha]

I think this is perception, not reality. I didn't see NBC or anyone else pushing a "blonde Disney princess." The USA's most popular and beloved skater of all time, by the way, was of Asian heritage.

I think this mainly comes from the fact that the last Olympic team had a very 'All American Girl' look. People aren't looking that far back when they're talking about the image they believe the fed is trying to promote.

(Soz for the double post).

 

[da96103]

After reading many previous posts, this has just occurred to me... Assuming Bradie and Mirai finish gold and silver (in whatever order)...what do we think the committee will do if Angela wins the bronze at Nationals? (And let's say Ashley places 4th and Karen places 5th.) Do we think they would send Ashley? What if it is Ashley who finishes 5th, and Karen 4th, do we think they would send Karen instead?

So many questions will be answered in the next few days. Best of luck to all skaters, they all work so hard.
.

Easy. The head of USFS will say:

Ms Tennell and Ms Nagasu will represent our country at the Olympics. Please give them an applause.
Now, will the following girls step forward please.
Ms Wang, step forward.
Ms Chen, step forward.
Ms Wagner, step forward.
You three girls will go to 4CC and skate your skates off. The girl with the best result will take the third spot.
I saw that tongue-sticking, Ms Wagner. You best behave and don't give me none of that "4CC is not my thing" stuff.
You want to go the Olympics? You go to the 4CC first. If Ms Miyahara and Ms Sakamoto are willing to go, you can go too.