2022 Olympics: Women's Short Program

[Joekaz]

simply compare Kaori's combo with Wakaba's combo, the height distance and rotation. Kaori has much more speed than Wakaba especially in the later portion of the program. Kaori skated last in the sp and right after Trusova in fs, but delivered beautiful clean programs, kind of saved the competition. Kaori is also 2 time winning national champion and helped secure 3 spots for Olympics in 21 world Championship. Hope this helps you see a little bit difference.

This is figure skating, not speed skating, Wakaba has plenty of speed and power, she often clocks higher speeds and jumps higher than Kaori according to icescope in Japan. But you are supposed to skate to the music. Her music was soft. The judges missed Kaoris flutz, and if they were as strict as with everyone else, a q on her combo. Higuchi's 3A should have given her a 6 point lead over Kaori, and Wakaba should get higher PCS, not lower. Much of this is simply federation support. The judging was a joke, even American TV had a segment on Wakaba being robbed it was so blatant. Lol

 

[Joekaz]

I just went back and watched Shizuka's 2006 FS again. I prefer Kaori's skating and her presence on the ice. Jumps can be taught. Not presence. The same is true when someone walks into a room. And what happens to the room after they leave.

To be fair, Arakawa was a 6.0 skater where presentation was much more important than now. Kaori definitely isn't a 6.0 skater. So it is kind of apples and oranges.

 

[Arigato]

even American TV had a segment on Wakaba being robbed it was so blatant. Lol

Post a link.

 

[Joekaz]

Post a link.

Where Wakaba Higuchi gained, lost points in her short program skate | Olympic Ice | NBC Sports

Jackie Wong breaks down the questionable scoring of Wakaba Higuchi's short program skate. #NBCOlympics #WinterOlympics2022 #WakabaHiguchi» Subscribe to NBC S...

youtu.be

 

[Arigato]

Where Wakaba Higuchi gained, lost points in her short program skate | Olympic Ice | NBC Sports

Jackie Wong breaks down the questionable scoring of Wakaba Higuchi's short program skate. #NBCOlympics #WinterOlympics2022 #WakabaHiguchi» Subscribe to NBC S...

youtu.be

Thanks for the link, but I think I'll skip beating a dead horse concerning who should have scored higher than Trusova or the other Russians. That's what they delve into. Giving a personal opinion on PCS is a far cry from claiming a skater was "robbed." No one would say such a thing and still have a job at any major network. They're just having a shoot-the-crap session, no different than anyone else on the matter. And while I'm at it, I don't put much stock in Scott's opinion anyway, since he made a major blunder on air while calling the 2002 Olympic men's free skate. Claiming Yagudin was conceding his free skate to Plushenko was one of the craziest things I've ever witnessed. He had to do some serious backpedaling on air, when he realized how wrong he was.

 

[Joekaz]

Thanks for the link, but I think I'll skip beating a dead horse concerning who should have scored higher than Trusova or the other Russians. That's what they delve into. Giving a personal opinion on PCS is a far cry from claiming a skater was "robbed." No one would say such a thing and still have a job at any major network. They're just having a shoot-the-crap session, no different than anyone else on the matter. And while I'm at it, I don't put much stock in Scott's opinion anyway, since he made a major blunder on air while calling the 2002 Olympic men's free skate. Claiming Yagudin was conceding his free skate to Plushenko was one of the craziest things I've ever witnessed. He had to do some serious backpedaling on air, when he realized how wrong he was.

You must not have watched much of the segment then. They had Jackie Wong explain the scoring for Wakaba, he then said the scoring was ridiculous, that they were far harsher on Higuchi on her jumps and components than anyone else, and that he thought she deserved to be in fitst place. Robbery was my word, but when he says her score was ridiculous and should be in first, I think robbery is a good summation. Just because you don't like what they say is no reason to not watch it after you requested the link. I didn't say you had to agree with it. Lol

 

[Arigato]

You must not have watched much of the segment then. They had Jackie Wong explain the scoring for Wakaba, he then said the scoring was ridiculous, that they were far harsher on Higuchi on her jumps and components than anyone else, and that he thought she deserved to be in fitst place. Robbery was my word, but when he says her score was ridiculous and should be in first, I think robbery is a good sumation. Just because you don't like what they say is no reason to not watch it after you requested the link. I didn't say you had to agree with it. Lol

I heard it, but he was relating it to Trusova and the other Russians. And anyone can call something ridiculous; it's merely an opinion. I don't care who thought she should be in first place - I guess he put one hand over his eye so he never had to see the reality of a tech score. How convenient.

 

[Joekaz]

I heard it, but he was relating it to Trusova and the other Russians. And anyone can call something ridiculous; it's merely an opinion. I don't care who thought she should be in first place - I guess he put one hand over his eye so he never had to see the reality of a tech score. How convenient.

If you don't care about other people's opinions, why are you on this site?

 

[KaoriFan]

You must not have watched much of the segment then. They had Jackie Wong explain the scoring for Wakaba

You guys (and all TV commentators) put way too much emphasis on the "scoring". It literally does not matter. The points and tech calls and GOEs are all fudged in order to get the skaters in the ranking the judges want. The judges qualitatively put the skaters in the order they want based on technical difficulty first, politicking second, and all-around skating third, if necessary.

Let me give an example. Trusova vs. Shcherbakova:

Sasha: Look, I can do a quad!
Judges: Wow, you're in first place!
Anna: Look, I can do a quad too!
Judges: Wow! You're both great. Anyone else?
Non-Russian girls: no, we can't, sorry.
Judges: OK....it's between Sasha and Anna now!
Sasha: Look, I can do multiple quads!
Judges: Wow! Sasha, you're back in first place!
Anna: Look, I can do multiple quads too!
Judges: Wow!
Sasha: Look, I can do three quads now.
Judges: OK, we're bored with that. What else?
Anna: Watch my skating skills and presentation.
Judges: Superb!
Sasha: Look, I can do four quads.
Judges: Anna is really good. Wonderful Anna!
Sasha: Look, I can do five quads now.
Judges: Anna, you win Olympic Gold Medal! Well done!

That's literally what happens. The numbers, TES, PCS, they are all a veneer. The judges just make up the numbers in order to rank the skaters the way they want. That's why Sasha has 9s on PCS and thinks if she adds more TES, she will win. But it's an illusion. She never understood that.

edit:
It's the same with Higuchi and You. When they skate in the last group, it could have been the difference between bronze medal or not. Kamila could be disqualified, and Kaori could skate bad, meaning whoever finish ahead between them will win Olympic Bronze Medal. Young You gave two clean, exquisite skates. Wakaba fell down. Japanese Fed just politic and make sure she (undeservedly) finish one point ahead of You in case it will mean the Bronze medal or not. The tech caller will be strict on You, not strict on Waka. You's PCS will get held down, whatever it takes to get the ranking the judges want.

 

[Joekaz]

You guys (and all TV commentators) put way too much emphasis on the "scoring". It literally does not matter. The points and tech calls and GOEs are all fudged in order to get the skaters in the ranking the judges want. The judges qualitatively put the skaters in the order they want based on technical difficulty first, politicking second, and all-around skating third, if necessary.

Let me give an example. Trusova vs. Shcherbakova:

Sasha: Look, I can do a quad!
Judges: Wow, you're in first place!
Anna: Look, I can do a quad too!
Judges: Wow! You're both great. Anyone else?
Non-Russian girls: no, we can't, sorry.
Judges: OK....it's between Sasha and Anna now!
Sasha: Look, I can do multiple quads!
Judges: Wow! Sasha, you're back in first place!
Anna: Look, I can do multiple quads too!
Judges: Wow!
Sasha: Look, I can do three quads now.
Judges: OK, we're bored with that. What else?
Anna: Watch my skating skills and presentation.
Judges: Superb!
Sasha: Look, I can do four quads.
Judges: Anna is really good. Wonderful Anna!
Sasha: Look, I can do five quads now.
Judges: Anna, you win Olympic Gold Medal! Well done!

That's literally what happens. The numbers, TES, PCS, they are all a veneer. The judges just make up the numbers in order to rank the skaters the way they want. That's why Sasha has 9s on PCS and thinks if she adds more TES, she will win. But it's an illusion. She never understood that.

edit:
It's the same with Higuchi and You. When they skate in the last group, it could have been the difference between bronze medal or not. Kamila could be disqualified, and Kaori could skate bad, meaning whoever finish ahead between them will win Olympic Bronze Medal. Young You gave two clean, exquisite skates. Wakaba fell down. Japanese Fed just politic and make sure she (undeservedly) finish one point ahead of You in case it will mean the Bronze medal or not. The tech caller will be strict on You, not strict on Waka. You's PCS will get held down, whatever it takes to get the ranking the judges want.

You guys (and all TV commentators) put way too much emphasis on the "scoring". It literally does not matter. The points and tech calls and GOEs are all fudged in order to get the skaters in the ranking the judges want. The judges qualitatively put the skaters in the order they want based on technical difficulty first, politicking second, and all-around skating third, if necessary.

Let me give an example. Trusova vs. Shcherbakova:

Sasha: Look, I can do a quad!
Judges: Wow, you're in first place!
Anna: Look, I can do a quad too!
Judges: Wow! You're both great. Anyone else?
Non-Russian girls: no, we can't, sorry.
Judges: OK....it's between Sasha and Anna now!
Sasha: Look, I can do multiple quads!
Judges: Wow! Sasha, you're back in first place!
Anna: Look, I can do multiple quads too!
Judges: Wow!
Sasha: Look, I can do three quads now.
Judges: OK, we're bored with that. What else?
Anna: Watch my skating skills and presentation.
Judges: Superb!
Sasha: Look, I can do four quads.
Judges: Anna is really good. Wonderful Anna!
Sasha: Look, I can do five quads now.
Judges: Anna, you win Olympic Gold Medal! Well done!

That's literally what happens. The numbers, TES, PCS, they are all a veneer. The judges just make up the numbers in order to rank the skaters the way they want. That's why Sasha has 9s on PCS and thinks if she adds more TES, she will win. But it's an illusion. She never understood that.

edit:
It's the same with Higuchi and You. When they skate in the last group, it could have been the difference between bronze medal or not. Kamila could be disqualified, and Kaori could skate bad, meaning whoever finish ahead between them will win Olympic Bronze Medal. Young You gave two clean, exquisite skates. Wakaba fell down. Japanese Fed just politic and make sure she (undeservedly) finish one point ahead of You in case it will mean the Bronze medal or not. The tech caller will be strict on You, not strict on Waka. You's PCS will get held down, whatever it takes to get the ranking the judges want.

Actually You outscored Wakaba in the LP. But Wakaba had a lead from the SP. The difference was Wakaba nailed both of her 3As, while You botched hers. You are right about federation influence though except than anyone that knows the Japanese Federation would know that they hate Wakaba so bad they never support her That's why she was the only one that got judged harsher than the Koreans

 

[Arigato]

If you don't care about other people's opinions, why are you on this site?

Scott Hamilton isn't on this site.

 

[KaoriFan]

Actually You outscored Wakaba in the LP. But Wakaba had a lead from the SP.

Yeah but the point still stands. Japanese Fed know You is their biggest competition for bronze medal should Valieva be disqualified. They will politic hard to hold her PCS down and have the tech caller more strict on her than Waka and Kaori.

You's score was 213. Waka finished with a fall. She should finish behind You, she made a serious error, but since it could mean the difference between bronze medal or not, Japan Fed will make sure she finishes one point ahead of You, no matter what. The time between the end of Waka's skate, and the announcement of her score, they are just figuring out how to nudge the PCS or GOE to put her ahead.

USA Fed did the same thing with Mariah against Gubanova, and they are just fighting for tenth place!

The "scoring" doesn't matter, only the rankings. That's just a big pet peeve of mine the way everyone focus on the score when it's just veneer.

 

[Joekaz]

Yeah but the point still stands. Japanese Fed know You is their biggest competition for bronze medal should Valieva be disqualified. They will politic hard to hold her PCS down and have the tech caller more strict on her than Waka and Kaori.

You's score was 213. Waka finished with a fall. She should finish behind You, she made a serious error, but since it could mean the difference between bronze medal or not, Japan Fed will make sure she finishes one point ahead of You, no matter what. The time between the end of Waka's skate, and the announcement of her score, they are just figuring out how to nudge the PCS or GOE to put her ahead.

USA Fed did the same thing with Mariah against Gubanova, and they are just fighting for tenth place!

The "scoring" doesn't matter, only the rankings. That's just a big pet peeve of mine the way everyone focus on the score when it's just veneer.

The points Wakaba lost on the fall were about what she gained for the 3A. Wakaba was much more underscored than You in the SP. You not being able to land her 3A is what cost her. Wakaba was correctly ahead of You.

 

[KaoriFan]

The points Wakaba lost on the fall were about what she gained for the 3A. Wakaba was much more underscored than You in the SP. You not being able to land her 3A is what cost her. Wakaba was correctly ahead of You.

It's all arbitrary. The idea that there is a "score" doesn't exist in reality. That's why Sasha gets 9's on SS and other PCS.

Qualitatively, the tech content matters, sure. But there's no math to any of it. The judges know the rankings they want, and they make sure the order comes out the way they want it. There are many ways to adjust the components, GOEs, and tech calls to get the result they want.

 

[TT_Fin]

People have different kinds of opinions and have right to have them. If I say prefer choreo sequence most, which I do, I have right to like it most. People can say me you should appreciate quads most, people have right also to say so, but I don't have to obey.

I still haven't watched any of the ladies yet, but I decided to watch. I just watch the performances in pieces during this week, not anything else. Some many people I know who do not follow figure skating actively, but read evening posts, think Kamila's falls are scripted. I have no opinion on that, but many Finn's remembered Lahti 2001 where strange things happened to Finland's skiers before the scandal came to light. I have no opinion on that, I just watch (Kamila's FS I've seen, I could not avoid it). It can take whole week to get to the end to watching ladies because "work is disturbing my hobbies".

 

[KaoriFan]

IJS is like Slot Machine Figure Skating.

People like to spin the slot machine and watch the cherries and 7's go by. They think if they get cherry, 7, cherry, or 777 they will win jackpot. But in reality, there is a computer chip in the slot machine running an algorithm to determine if they win money or not.

IJS is the same way. The TES and PCS are cherries and 7s. They aren't real. The judges figure out the rankings they want in the corridor. The corridor rankings are the computer chip algorithm deep inside the slot machine.

 

[Joekaz]

It's all arbitrary. The idea that there is a "score" doesn't exist in reality. That's why Sasha gets 9's on SS and other PCS.

Qualitatively, the tech content matters, sure. But there's no math to any of it. The judges know the rankings they want, and they make sure the order comes out the way they want it. There are many ways to adjust the components, GOEs, and tech calls to get the result they want.

I understand that. I go by what my eyes see. The Korean women were scored harshly, I agree. But Wakaba was scored even more harshly. The Russians and Kaori were the ones who were leniently scored. Wakaba actually deserved to be farther in front of You. Even if she didn't fall they weren't going to put her ahead of Kaori or Kamila. The only thing that screwed up things was Kamila bombed so badly the judges couldn't save her.

 

[Joekaz]

IJS is like Slot Machine Figure Skating.

People like to spin the slot machine and watch the cherries and 7's go by. They think if they get cherry, 7, cherry, or 777 they will win jackpot. But in reality, there is a computer chip in the slot machine running an algorithm to determine if they win money or not.

IJS is the same way. The TES and PCS are cherries and 7s. They aren't real. The judges figure out the rankings they want in the corridor. The corridor rankings are the computer chip algorithm deep inside the slot machine.

Well at least its enjoyable watching good performances.

 

[KaoriFan]

The Korean women were scored harshly, I agree.

Yes, Yelim's score 202 same as Mariah Bell! LOL

 

[Joekaz]

Yes, Yelim's score 202 same as Mariah Bell! LOL

Yea that was a joke. Lol The Americans got pretty good treatment.