2023 World Junior Pairs Short Program

[apgold]

I love Sonia/Sophia and Daniel. Her especially - she's a spitfire in the mold of Alexa K. I think this is theirs's to win or lose now that the Aussies lost all those points on the death spiral.

Enjoy the Japanese pair, too - very refined despite the lower difficulty. I wonder how Bruno and Mie Hamada work together? And speaking of another Bruno, his team made a surprising second place here.

The FS will be interesting, hope the Aussies can bounce back.

 

[chuckm]

I grew up in NYC and I had three years of French in high school, as well as three years of Latin.

 

[lariko]

Unfortunately, skate Canada moved us from our seats, so we are now not in the front row but it wasn’t so bad. Liked some of the pair skaters and the Australian guy is our personal hero because he handed the wee flowers we brought for Sierova and Khobota to them we all but cried it was so emotional. Really liked Kamp/Yelizarov (?) and Baram/Tioumentsev. Also, the young Chinese pair was charming.

Mom’s eccentric spirit is helping because she devised the strategy to beat the flower girls, lol, who swoop in to clean the stuffies before skaters get anywhere near

 

[4everchan]

So they're middle aged skaters? I am impressed!!

HA! I was referring to the number of women and not their age... I know better not to ever mention a woman's age

 

[yelyoh]

HA! I was referring to the number of women and not their age... I know better not to ever mention a woman's age

Yes I knew that. Woman's age? I would add never ask a gay man his age. Just multiple is by 1.2 years.

 

[4everchan]

Yes I knew that. Woman's age? I would add never ask a gay man his age. Just multiple is by 1.2 years.

hahaha... when someone asks me how old i am, i bat my lashes and ask them how old they think i am

i always win... but it's usually children who ask me this question and for them, 18 or 22 is very old... I don't think they know people can live past 30.

 

[SnowWhite]

I’m Franco-Ontarien, and it’s not so bad in the North but Southern Ontario and the Praries I don’t think see the value. BC i think is just being its usual chill self and the territories try to focus on their own mother languages.

Sorry for the OT

Also a good amount of French in Eastern Ontario, with the proximity to Quebec and also being the Capital. So many people work for the federal government in the Ottawa area, and while French isn't required for most of those jobs, it's definitely an asset. So a lot of parents in the area want their kids to speak French well for that reason as well. And the English public schools in Ottawa still require core French class from elementary school through grade 9, I believe.

Yeah... it's a good summary. to get back on topic, for those not used to Ted, he unfortunately isn't good at names in any language.. even English at times

Yeah, I'm not sure the problem had anything to do with Ted's French education of lack there of

 

[yesterday]

Also a good amount of French in Eastern Ontario, with the proximity to Quebec and also being the Capital. So many people work for the federal government in the Ottawa area, and while French isn't required for most of those jobs, it's definitely an asset. So a lot of parents in the area want their kids to speak French well for that reason as well. And the English public schools in Ottawa still require core French class from elementary school through grade 9, I believe.

Yeah, I'm not sure the problem had anything to do with Ted's French education of lack there of

 

[Ziotic]

Also a good amount of French in Eastern Ontario, with the proximity to Quebec and also being the Capital. So many people work for the federal government in the Ottawa area, and while French isn't required for most of those jobs, it's definitely an asset. So a lot of parents in the area want their kids to speak French well for that reason as well. And the English public schools in Ottawa still require core French class from elementary school through grade 9, I believe.

Yeah, I'm not sure the problem had anything to do with Ted's French education of lack there of

Absolutely on the eastern! It’s very Francophone.

 

[4everchan]

Absolutely on the eastern! It’s very Francophone.

except that once, i took my friends from France to Ottawa... we went to the museum.. and nobody could help them in French... I had to translate.... It was a very shameful moment for me... and eye-opening... one would expect in a national museum located in Ottawa that service in both languages would be available..

Sorry for the OT...

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

If I was you? ugh... this sounds so ugly in my ESL ears.

Wow. Do you have hearing issues? If so, that can't be easy for a musician. But, look what Beethoven achieved despite going deaf.

I've said it before in relation to Diana Davis that I have so much admiration for people who can lip read. But, I also have so much admiration for people that can do sign language. It must be so easy to inadvertantly "say" the wrong thing. Especially with the added complication of different versions of sign language being used in different places. In my wee corner of the world alone, there are two versions in use - British Sign Language, and Irish Sign Language. I suppose you have the same situation in Canada, with separate versions for English and French.

It's a shame that a universal sign language couldn't have been developed. But, I suppose with so many places having already developed their own version, it would have been difficult and confusing for people to switch from the system they had always used to a new system.

So, to all people who can sign:

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Dr. Jenn]

Wow. Do you have hearing issues? If so, that can't be easy for a musician. But, look what Beethoven achieved despite going deaf.

I've said it before in relation to Diana Davis that I have so much admiration for people who can lip read. But, I also have so much admiration for people that can do sign language. It must be so easy to inadvertantly "say" the wrong thing. Especially with the added complication of different versions of sign language being used in different places. In my wee corner of the world alone, there are two versions in use - British Sign Language, and Irish Sign Language. I suppose you have the same situation in Canada, with separate versions for English and French.

It's a shame that a universal sign language couldn't have been developed. But, I suppose with so many places having already developed their own version, it would have been difficult and confusing for people to switch from the system they had always used to a new system.

So, to all people who can sign:

CaroLiza_fan

ESL = English as a Second Language

I'm pretty sure that 4everchan is a professional musician, so I doubt that they have hearing issues.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

ESL = English as a Second Language

I'm pretty sure that 4everchan is a professional musician, so I doubt that they have hearing issues.

I saw "SL" and automatically thought "Sign Language". And because of the political / lingual situation in Canada, I guessed that that they used the term "English Sign Language" instead of "British Sign Language".

And I should have realised something wasn't right, because I know that French is 4everchan's first language.

I'm an idiot.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

Wow. Do you have hearing issues? If so, that can't be easy for a musician. But, look what Beethoven achieved despite going deaf.

I've said it before in relation to Diana Davis that I have so much admiration for people who can lip read. But, I also have so much admiration for people that can do sign language. It must be so easy to inadvertantly "say" the wrong thing. Especially with the added complication of different versions of sign language being used in different places. In my wee corner of the world alone, there are two versions in use - British Sign Language, and Irish Sign Language. I suppose you have the same situation in Canada, with separate versions for English and French.

It's a shame that a universal sign language couldn't have been developed. But, I suppose with so many places having already developed their own version, it would have been difficult and confusing for people to switch from the system they had always used to a new system.

So, to all people who can sign:

CaroLiza_fan

no... i don't have hearing issues... if I was you is grammatically wrong.. that's all i was saying. -from a non-native speaker, it sounds so wrong because "If I were you" was forced into our brains from the first day we learned English in grade school

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

no... i don't have hearing issues... if I was you is grammatically wrong.. that's all i was saying. -from a non-native speaker, it sounds so wrong because "If I were you" was forced into our brains from the first day we learned English in grade school

Don't worry, it wasn't your fault. I just mis-intepreted the abbreviation.

With regard what you were actually talking about, the irony is, because of what you describe, the grammar of non-native English speakers is often much better than that of native speakers.

Most languages have strict rules that have to be followed. But English has borrowed from so many other languages that everything is a total mess. For somebody who is used to structured languages, it must be a nightmare of a language to learn.

---

While I'm here, I found the conversation about French speaking in Canada very interesting. I just assumed that everybody was bi-lingual.

But then I saw something in the girls thread, and it made me remember something that is probably relevant. So, to re-cap (don't worry, I'm not quoting the whole conversation):

You'd expect someone from Canada to at least know some of the basics of French pronunciation.

Ted is west coast, so much less likely they can speak French

Eh, in a country with two official languages, I kind of naively expected everyone to be taught both languages in school and know at least the basics of each language.

I understand that it gets really difficult with a lot of official languages, but two seem manageable

And here is the post from the girls thread that made the light-bulb appear:

or: what would Ted speak if he was born elsewhere

Although we all know him as a Canadian, Ted was actually born in New Zealand. His family only moved to Canada when he was a youngster.

That probably plays a part in explaining things too. With growing up in New Zealand and British Colombia, he wouldn't have got as much exposure to the French language "in the wild", so to speak, as other kids in Canada. And you need that to properly learn a language.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

Don't worry, it wasn't your fault. I just mis-intepreted the abbreviation.

With regard what you were actually talking about, the irony is, because of what you describe, the grammar of non-native English speakers is often much better than that of native speakers.

Most languages have strict rules that have to be followed. But English has borrowed from so many other languages that everything is a total mess. For somebody who is used to structured languages, it must be a nightmare of a language to learn.

---

While I'm here, I found the conversation about French speaking in Canada very interesting. I just assumed that everybody was bi-lingual.

But then I saw something in the girls thread, and it made me remember something that is probably relevant. So, to re-cap (don't worry, I'm not quoting the whole conversation):







And here is the post from the girls thread that made the light-bulb appear:



Although we all know him as a Canadian, Ted was actually born in New Zealand. His family only moved to Canada when he was a youngster.

That probably plays a part in explaining things too. With growing up in New Zealand and British Colombia, he wouldn't have got as much exposure to the French language "in the wild", so to speak, as other kids in Canada. And you need that to properly learn a language.

CaroLiza_fan

Ted moved to Canada young enough to learn French... IF he hadn't moved to BC The issue with Ted is not so much that he isn't bilingual. it is simply that he has a hard time with names.... As he is more and more featured in bigger events like junior worlds and some senior events as well, (no longer just the smaller JGP on youtube) he should take pride in his work and do better with names.... this is what professional commentators do in many sports... I watch pretty much all sports except those you like (with cars) and things like MMA and boxing etc... and I can tell you that many figure skating analysts need to improve and should emulate the groundwork done by commentators in other sports regarding diction. To me, it is a lack of respect when someone is not trying to improve in that sense. I don't mind someone who is struggling but trying hard... I don't get that feeling from Ted and it bugs me... Maybe it's just personal as my name was butchered in so many different ways outside of hometown... and I appreciated when people at least tried... instead of just not caring... but considering the many posts about it in the thread, maybe it annoys other people too

Regarding grammar in English, it is indeed less complex than French or German. The issue is that many anglophones seem to take it for granted, including in how English is taught in school, while ESL teachers have understood that showing the structure of English grammar to non-native speakers gives good results right away. In any case, enough about this It is off-topic... though related to skating when the discussion comes from comments about our figure skating commentator, Mr Barton.

 

[Skater Boy]

hahaha... when someone asks me how old i am, i bat my lashes and ask them how old they think i am

i always win... but it's usually children who ask me this question and for them, 18 or 22 is very old... I don't think they know people can live past 30.

People live past 30? Whew. I thought Deanna SD was a figment of our imagination.

 

[NanaPat]

Some people have "a good ear", and some don't. My daughter has a good ear, and I don't. Not only do I struggle with foreign words, I have some pronunciation problems in English as well.

My daughter went to school in Ontario and started with some French early in elementary school (grade 3 or 4). Because of the early start and her "good ear", she pronounces French well but she is not fluent. This leads to problems for her, since her accent leads people astray, and they talk much faster than she can comprehend. Her favorite phrase in French involves "slow down, please, my French is very weak". That does seem to help.

Not everyone can be a PJ Kwong. Some of us, alas, are Teds.

 

[midori green]

Some people have "a good ear", and some don't. My daughter has a good ear, and I don't. Not only do I struggle with foreign words, I have some pronunciation problems in English as well.

My daughter went to school in Ontario and started with some French early in elementary school (grade 3 or 4). Because of the early start and her "good ear", she pronounces French well but she is not fluent. This leads to problems for her, since her accent leads people astray, and they talk much faster than she can comprehend. Her favorite phrase in French involves "slow down, please, my French is very weak". That does seem to help.

Not everyone can be a PJ Kwong. Some of us, alas, are Teds.

Ted even pronounces Daniel incorrectly (as Dan-YELL instead of DAN-yell/DAN-yull). He makes it sound like the feminine form Danielle. He has many strengths, but name pronunciation is not one of them. I don't think language has anything to do with it. I knew of a teacher in college who pronounced someone's last name (Little) as Li-TELL.

 

[yesterday]

Ted even pronounces Daniel incorrectly (as Dan-YELL instead of DAN-yell/DAN-yull). He makes it sound like the feminine form Danielle. He has many strengths, but name pronunciation is not one of them. I don't think language has anything to do with it. I knew of a teacher in college who pronounced someone's last name (Little) as Li-TELL.

"Denise" is another popular example. (for Denis, Deniss, Dennis)