New York Times editorial opposes Kwan bye process

[orchid]

I think it is being assumed, partly from no word to the contrary, and partly because there were no media at the test skates for Nancy and for Meno & Sand (I read that Todd got his bye without having to do a test skate -- even if not true, it sure was not witnessed by the press). I think that the media has a lot of nerve, criticizing Michelle for seeking a bye (or the USFSA for giving it to her), when that procedure went by the rules, but now the media wants the rules to be ignored to allow them access to the test skate..

Perfectly said


Now, I might have such an opinion as our esteemed press if not for the fact that the 3rd place skater, just isn't world stage ready!

Michelle is the best skater to represent the US. Give the New York Times a raspberry, where is the icon ?

 

[chuckm]

New York Times writers have proven they know little or nothing about figure skating. So they want to report on the test skate to validate whether or not THEY think Michelle should go to the Olympics? Hah! Fat chance! No matter how well Kwan skated, they would no doubt still say Emily should go to Torino instead of her.

I re-watched the US Nationals on ESPN tonight and was not edified by Emily's FS. She had the clumsiest fall of any of the ladies, and landed just 4 triples. I still do not understand how she could have finished ahead of Katy Taylor in the FS. Katy's landed 5 triples, was fast, energetic, and she got far better flowout on her jumps than Emily. Yes, Katy fell too, but she recovered quickly and went on to land a 3Z at the very end of her program.

Sorry, but to my eyes, Emily is a bit of a klutz. She could have gotten a ticket to Torino had she delivered a 7-triple FS like Kimmie did. But she didn't, and IMO, was overmarked to finish 3rd.

 

[Misplaced Gymnast]

The main concern of the New York Times seems to be that everything be conducted out in the open. This is consistent with their editorial policy -- they are forever filing subpoeas against various congressioinal committees, etc., under the freedom of information act.

Actually, I think this would be good public relations for USFS, to invite the press to Michelle's test skate, if Michelle were willing. That way, we could have a bunch of first person articles saying, "I just saw Michelle skate a 140 point LP! Go team U.S.A.!"

MM

I agree. I don't have a problem with Kwan so much as I have a problem with all this secrecy. If she's truly ready, they shouldn't have to hide anything.

Great idea! And I think we should do the same with gymnastics - lets tell them no - no more camps to determine the OLy team - unless we televise them - don't trust your judgement to select the best Oly team....

I know you were being flippant, but I actually agree with this part. The closed-door, "second" Olympic trials just beg for conspiracy theories. Why bother having the "real" (not) Trials if they're just going to choose the team at a top-secret camp?

 

[mzheng]

New York Times writers have proven they know little or nothing about figure skating. So they want to report on the test skate to validate whether or not THEY think Michelle should go to the Olympics? Hah! Fat chance! No matter how well Kwan skated, they would no doubt still say Emily should go to Torino instead of her.

I re-watched the US Nationals on ESPN tonight and was not edified by Emily's FS. She had the clumsiest fall of any of the ladies, and landed just 4 triples. I still do not understand how she could have finished ahead of Katy Taylor in the FS. Katy's landed 5 triples, was fast, energetic, and she got far better flowout on her jumps than Emily. Yes, Katy fell too, but she recovered quickly and went on to land a 3Z at the very end of her program.

Sorry, but to my eyes, Emily is a bit of a klutz. She could have gotten a ticket to Torino had she delivered a 7-triple FS like Kimmie did. But she didn't, and IMO, was overmarked to finish 3rd.

I watched LPs too. Even Kimmie I don't consider a senior world stage skater yet. But she has the jumps and she has the nerve. But Kimmie really need huge huge improvement in presentation department to be considered as a senior world class skater. Don't know why, may be because she got taller, she looks more 'stiff' than her Junior and Novice exhibitions. I really really don't like to see those mitten hands, which make every of her move looks forced.

Too bad, bebe and Alisa diddn't stepup to the plate.

 

[Piel]

Misplaced your "diplomacy" somewhere, aye Joe?

What is undiplomatic about saying one has a right to their opinion?

 

[Piel]

I agree. I've read dozens of positive articles, and yet curiously new threads here are only started for the negative ones. Frankly Kathy you'd be able to post far more positive articles for every one negative. But I agree, that would be ridiculous. We know what the consensus is. Clearly some posters have an agenda.

I started the thread about the Houston paper and I am a Kwaniac. I agree with RD that all positive threads would be boring.

 

[Bowers]

Sorry, but to my eyes, Emily is a bit of a klutz. She could have gotten a ticket to Torino had she delivered a 7-triple FS like Kimmie did. But she didn't, and IMO, was overmarked to finish 3rd.

I believe that Emily most likely has a ticket to Torino. From my take on the situation, I don't think there is a chance that Michelle will be 100 percent, unless her injuries were considerably less than we have been led to believe. And she has sworn that she will not go unless she is 100 per cent.

Great things can be done in a short time, however. Back, in 2002 following a disappointing showing at Nationals, Sarah and Robin went home and got to work. They upped the technical ante with TWO 3/3's and tweaked the LP choreography as well. All in about 30 days. And wham! Olympic gold! That's about the total amount of time Kwan has had. But the big difference? Sarah was in top shape from having competed throughout the fall of 2001 leading up to 2002 Nationals. This year, Michelle has not been seen in worse physical condition, she has not competed, nor has she been able to train consistently.

 

[yelyoh]

Well it does, I don't want Michelle at the Olympics and if I were to go to to them I will be booing at her and I am disappointed that they let her go.

Muffin you are getting stale and tasteless. :sheesh:

 

[Skate Sandee]

I started the thread about the Houston paper and I am a Kwaniac. I agree with RD that all positive threads would be boring.

Why? Posting positive threads would allow those who disagree with the bye to come out in force explaining their reasons why they disagree and allow non-fans to bemoan the fact that the Kwaniacs are flooding the forum with articles that praise their favorite.

Positive Bye Articles + Kwan fans agreeing heartily = dissenting opinions by non fans.

Negative Bye Articles + Non-fans agreeing heartily = dissenting opinions by Kwan fans.

So why is one set of articles more boring than another? One set is designed to raise the hackles of Kwan fans that support the bye while the other articles are designed to raise the hackles of non-fans that don't agree with the bye. And yet only one side is deemed "boring".

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Misplaced your "diplomacy" somewhere, aye Joe?

Au contraire. You also have your right to say what you want as do I. Defending the Times is of my opinion. they have that right,.

Joe

 

[swannanoa54]

I agree. I don't have a problem with Kwan so much as I have a problem with all this secrecy. If she's truly ready, they shouldn't have to hide anything.

I'd really like someone to explain to me why they have a problem with "all this secrecy" surrounding Kwan's test skates. I didn't get to see Kerrigan's "test skates" and I didn't have a problem. I didn't get to see Meno and Sand's either. Still no problem. I don't have a problem not seeing Kwan's. But I just don't understand anyone having a problem with this at all unless they believe Kwan has been less than honest about her injury, that the doctors have been less than honest about her injury and that it's some kind of "Kwanspiracy" to keep her on the Olympic team. Other than that, I can see no good reason why we, as figure skating fans, OR journalists have any need to witness Kwan's ( or anyone's) test skate except to satisfy our own curiousity.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There is tremendous force to keep Mao out of the Olympics as well as Kwan. Will that pave the way for someone else to win the gold? It seems we are not interested in who skates the best that night but only in a favorite's best chances.

Am I correct?

Joe

 

[swannanoa54]

Actually I'm interested in how high they will make the COP scores go in order to have their favorite win.

To be perfectly honest, I don't care who wins anymore (although I'd love to see Kwan win I'm not delusional about it). I just want it to be a fair win. If I have to pick someone, it would be Irina that I would like to see win or Shizuka. And I firmly believe in "rules are rules", so it didn't bother me if Mao went or not.

 

[Mathman]

There is tremendous force to keep Mao out of the Olympics as well as Kwan. Will that pave the way for someone else to win the gold? It seems we are not interested in who skates the best that night but only in a favorite's best chances.

Am I correct?

I don't think so, Joe. The "tremendous force" that kept Mao out is a rule that has been on the books for many years. The "tremendous force" that is hampering Michelle is a hip and a groin injury.

 

[Ptichka]

I think it would make all fans feel much better if Michelle's test skate was telivised, or if she went to 4CC, or at least give the public some indication that she's really well. Mind you, I'm not talking about anyone but USFSA making the ultimate decision, but it would be nice if the public got some visual reassurance.

 

[attyfan]

I don't think so, Joe. The "tremendous force" that kept Mao out is a rule that has been on the books for many years. The "tremendous force" that is hampering Michelle is a hip and a groin injury.

Michelle is presumably is not being hampered now by her hip and groin injuries, and, two doctors have said that she won't be hampered at Olys. However, the articles bashing Michelle are trying to get Emily on the team. These articles do not take the position that Michelle shouldn't go if hurt because Emily is better than a badly injured Michelle -- that is the reason for the test skate. Instead, they say that Emily should go because it is "fairer that way", and none of them say that Emily is better than a healthy (or even partially healthy) Michelle, So, insofar as these articles are criticizing the bye, they don't care who skates best.

 

[attyfan]

I think it would make all fans feel much better if Michelle's test skate was telivised, or if she went to 4CC, or at least give the public some indication that she's really well. Mind you, I'm not talking about anyone but USFSA making the ultimate decision, but it would be nice if the public got some visual reassurance.

Maybe, after the test skate, there will be something shown on TV. Again, I don't think it should be televised live. First, if G-d forbid, Michelle isn't where she should be, she should be able to withdraw without being humiliated, especially since other skaters who got byes didn't have public test skates. Second, there is likely to be conversations that should be kept private (between Michelle and the committee). For example, the committee should be free to ask Michelle when she expects to be able to incorporate certain moves (or jumps) into her routine, or, to offer suggestions about specific moves she might want to include, without such material being broadcast. However, maybe they could video the test skate, and, if warranted, televise the video, after editing out any conversations that should not be publicly released.

 

[Mathman]

This whole situation is very unfortunate for USFS.

First, the USFS committee really had no choice but to give Michelle the bye, at least on a conditional and temporary basis. The alternative would have been publically to pimp-slap the person who has carried the sport (in the U.S.) on her back for a decade. (Slapping Emily Hughes -- we can live with that.)

On the other hand, the USFSA has always, perhaps disingenuously, prided itself on being morally superior to all those -- yuck -- other national federations who make their decisions on the basis of bribes of bottles of vodka from well-known coaches to the high mucky-mucks -- or at best (in the case of Japan, for instance), by some kind of arcane point system or testing before a committee.

No, no, here in America we seize the high ground. Places on the Olympic and world teams are decided not by USFS officials but by the athletes. Top three at Nationals go. No smoke-filled back rooms for us.

Now reality intrudes on our delusion. To do right we have to do -- well, not exactly wrong, but, you know, sort of right. More right than wrong. Sort of. Hey, we didn't break any rules.

Art mimics life.

MM

 

[attyfan]

I didn't think there was any criticism of the Russian federation when they sent Irina Slutskaya to Worlds in '04, even though she had not competed all year due to her illness.

 

[Mathman]

No, there wasn't. That's the way they do it in Russia. The Russian federation does what it wants, making up the rules as it goes along. No one expects anything more of them.