New York Times editorial opposes Kwan bye process

[euterpe]

I watched Nationals again last night. I'm going to say it: KATY TAYLOR WAS ROBBED! She should have won the bronze medal over Emily, who completed only four triples and had a truly horrible and clumsy fall. Katy was undermarked because she didn't skate in the last group, and Emily was vastly overmarked because she is Sarah's sister.

I truly believe if Katy Taylor had won the bronze medal, the media would not be weeping and moaning because she wasn't being sent to Torino, or demanding to see Kwan's test skate.

The media wants Emily so they can play up the Hughes-as-bronze-medalist-like-2002 story all the way up to the Olympics. They certainly couldn't want Emily based on her skating.

And what was with Emily refusing the 4CC opportunity? Worlds is more than 2 months away. Having prior Senior international experience before ISU judges before Worlds would certainly help her, wouldn't it? And it sure wouldn't hurt if she actually has the chance to skate at Torino. But I think Emily is afraid if she splats at 4CC, it won't help her case to replace Kwan at Torino (the chance of her splatting is almost 100%---she fell 3 times in each of her two GP events, as well as at once each at 2005 and 2006 Nationals and 2005 Jr. Worlds).

 

[clairecloutier]

As someone who lived in New York for 5 years, and during that time read The New York Times daily, including the sports section, I can tell you that Peter Vecsey is not a specialist in the sport of figure skating. Vecsey's primary focus is covering big-time professional team sports, especially the NBA. At most, he writes a few articles on skating per year. That means he probably knows less about figure skating than many of the people on this board. As a result I can't really take Vecsey's opinions all that seriously. He's just a journalist looking for an angle to hang a story on.

And as for the larger debate about Michelle vs. Emily, well personally I think it's ridiculous. Let's look at what I would consider the key facts of this case:

--Michelle is a five-time World champion and two-time Olympic medalist
--She was on the podium at Worlds for 9 straight years
--Last year, she was still 4th at Worlds, despite it being her first competition under COP
--She has won many international competitions in her career

--Emily has not won an important event of any kind (unless it was Novice Nationals or something)
--Her best placement was the bronze at Junior Worlds two years ago
--She did not make the podium at either of her Grand Prix events this year
--She did not skate particularly well at Nationals, with a long program that was arguably overmarked, as chuckm noted

Considering these facts, the question is which of these skaters has the best shot at winning a medal at the Olympics. Personally, I'd go with Michelle over Emily any day. Even if Michelle isn't 100 percent, she still has a much better shot than Emily. Emily's results so far on the international scene are unimpressive. Meanwhile, Michelle still managed 4th at Worlds last year, despite not having stellar performances. What that indicates, among other things, is that Michelle still has a lot of pull with the international judging community. Whereas Emily has none.

The only reason to put Emily on the team is if Michelle is simply too injured to skate. If she can't land her triples, if she can't do her spins--okay. Then in that case, you bow to reality, and put Emily on the team. But, if Michelle can skate at all--if she can land most of her jumps, do most of her spins--then she belongs on the team, because she has a better chance at winning an Olympic medal.

If Emily had put out a truly impressive, well-skated, six- or seven-triple program at Nationals, I'd feel a lot more sympathetic to her cause. But she didn't. Her program was mediocre at best. She is a pleasant skater, but there is no way she deserves to be on the team ahead of a 5-time World champion like Michelle. That is, unless Michelle is physically unable to skate.

 

[Mathman]

I watched Nationals again last night. I'm going to say it: KATY TAYLOR WAS ROBBED! She should have won the bronze medal over Emily, who completed only four triples and had a truly horrible and clumsy fall. Katy was undermarked because she didn't skate in the last group, and Emily was vastly overmarked because she is Sarah's sister.

Watching th LP tapes, it's hard to disagree. In the LP, Katy outskated Emily by almost 4 points in the TES despite falling on her Salchow and messing up her loop. It was the PCS that did her in. Emily got 55.21 to katy's 48.64, in the opinions of the judges.

Emily still would have won the bronze, however, because she was so far ahead after the short (more than 10 points). What cost Katy was flubbing the combo in the short. This cost her in TES and also gave the judges an excuse to put her way below Hughes in the PCS.

MM

 

[mzheng]

I watched Nationals again last night. I'm going to say it: KATY TAYLOR WAS ROBBED! She should have won the bronze medal over Emily, who completed only four triples and had a truly horrible and clumsy fall. Katy was undermarked because she didn't skate in the last group, and Emily was vastly overmarked because she is Sarah's sister.

I'm with you here. Katy's skating just so easy and light. She was undermarked at PCS scores as far as I concern. Emily was overmarked at SP as well, Bebe should've been higher than Emily in SP.

Among these new crop: Kimmie, Alisa, Emily and Katy. IMO Katy is the one well balanced in her skating. Though I love Alisa's skating style so much, but her jump technique just so flawed, like Dick or Peggy said, when under pressure, all her bad habbit crawd out. Those jump entries looks pure awkward. What dose the head shake during her into 2A. My daughter called her fall when she saw her enter the 2A.

But these whole Kwantroversies of Bye, to some, it's OK Emily takes a ride on her sister earned fame. It's not OK if Kwan takes a ride on her own earned fame.....Never mention she got the bye strictly according to USFSA IC select rules. Go figure!

 

[euterpe]

Yup, Emily won rhw FS based on her PCS scores, which are ridiculous.

7.00 6.75 7.04 6.79 6.93 Emily
6.18 5.86 6.14 6.04 6.18 Katy

Emily did only 4 triples, and her fall was extremely ungainly and disruptive to her program. Then she went on to step out of the underrotated 3S (she got credit only for a 2S). Yes, Katy fell too, but it was a quick bump on her butt and up. Emily had to crawl out of her almost belly-flop fall.

On what basis did Emily earn almost a full point higher in skating skills, transitions, performance execution, choeography and interpretation? IMO, the only reason Katy was dinged was because she didn't skate in the last group.

Emily got these PCS scores from the ISU judges for her SA FS, which was similar (she landed more triples at SA than she did at Nationals and had one fall, on an underrotated 3Z):

5.65 5.40 5.65 5.65 5.55 Emily, SA FS

If Emily does go to Torino and has a similar FS, her PCS scores will be a lot closer to her SA scores than to her Nationals scores.

 

[Piel]

Why? Posting positive threads would allow those who disagree with the bye to come out in force explaining their reasons why they disagree and allow non-fans to bemoan the fact that the Kwaniacs are flooding the forum with articles that praise their favorite.

Positive Bye Articles + Kwan fans agreeing heartily = dissenting opinions by non fans.

Negative Bye Articles + Non-fans agreeing heartily = dissenting opinions by Kwan fans.

So why is one set of articles more boring than another? One set is designed to raise the hackles of Kwan fans that support the bye while the other articles are designed to raise the hackles of non-fans that don't agree with the bye. And yet only one side is deemed "boring".

Well Sandee, we Kwaniacs are always being accused of wanting nothing but good things posted about her and denying the negative. My intent was as a Kwaniac to:
1. post a link to an article that I thought others would want to read
2. offer a different side to the Kwantroversy

Now, anyone who agrees with the article is free to jump in and defend the author until the cows come home. Can you not get your point across equally well defending a negative artcle as you could disagreeing with a positive one?

As to what is boring, for the last year or so the antiKwans and nonKwans have been b******* that they are so tired of all of the proKwan gushing. Now when a Kwaniac posts something negative that was written about her the nons and antis are STILL b*******. My conclusion is some folks just like to...........

 

[Piel]

I watched Nationals again last night. I'm going to say it: KATY TAYLOR WAS ROBBED! She should have won the bronze medal over Emily, who completed only four triples and had a truly horrible and clumsy fall. Katy was undermarked because she didn't skate in the last group, and Emily was vastly overmarked because she is Sarah's sister.

I truly believe if Katy Taylor had won the bronze medal, the media would not be weeping and moaning because she wasn't being sent to Torino, or demanding to see Kwan's test skate.

The media wants Emily so they can play up the Hughes-as-bronze-medalist-like-2002 story all the way up to the Olympics. They certainly couldn't want Emily based on her skating.

And what was with Emily refusing the 4CC opportunity? Worlds is more than 2 months away. Having prior Senior international experience before ISU judges before Worlds would certainly help her, wouldn't it? And it sure wouldn't hurt if she actually has the chance to skate at Torino. But I think Emily is afraid if she splats at 4CC, it won't help her case to replace Kwan at Torino (the chance of her splatting is almost 100%---she fell 3 times in each of her two GP events, as well as at once each at 2005 and 2006 Nationals and 2005 Jr. Worlds).

ITA! I think a chance for the Hughes sisters winning consecutive OGM would give the press a field day.

 

[swannanoa54]

[QUOTENow reality intrudes on our delusion. To do right we have to do -- well, not exactly wrong, but, you know, sort of right. More right than wrong. Sort of. Hey, we didn't break any rules.
][/QUOTE]

And after reading that paragraph, I was :scratch: .

 

[Mathman]

Me, too. Just for a minute there I was conflicted as to what was the right thing to do.

But now I have recovered my moral bearings. Here is the right right right way to look at it:

Michelle is a dragon, not a pussycat. Injury or no injury, she wants that Olympic spot, so she jumped up and grabbed it by the throat. If anyone else wants it, they will have to pry her talons off it first.

Go Michelle.

 

[soogar]

I didn't think there was any criticism of the Russian federation when they sent Irina Slutskaya to Worlds in '04, even though she had not competed all year due to her illness.

And what was really sad was that a crappy Irina with only 3 triples and a few pops placed 9th at worlds. The skaters who were healthy whom they sent to Euros could only manage finishes in the late teens.

 

[R.D.]

Michelle is a dragon, not a pussycat

hehe. I could have real fun with this quote, but I'll just say that she shows one on the outside, and holds another back on the inside.

 

[soogar]

Puhlease Euterpe:
Your hating on Emily is ridiculous. As for Katy Taylor not winning the bronze, well she should have skated a much better SP. That's Katy's fault, not Emily's. And speak for yourself about "how anyone can see anything in Emily's skating". You don't speak for everyone on this board. Just like there are people who love Michelle's skating, I think she's downright boring though she has nice aspects to her skating. I've been watching Emily's skating closely all this year and she has inventive spins (esp the layback out of the leaning spiral at Liberty which she dropped), great edges, power and exuberance. She is a much better version of her sister (whom I didn't care for at all). Of course the backstory of the OGM sister is interesting, but the USFS sees a young lady with great technique and good competitive nerves who struggled in juniors while her sister coasted through her senior career. Other skaters would have quit (like Karen Kwan, Mai Asada who is just making a comeback), but Emily stayed on and is making her mark. Contrast Emily with Bebe Liang who couldn't even stand up on half of her jumps in the LP. Emily did what she could and salvaged her program. Bebe who has a physical advantage in being a lot smaller and who has competed in seniors for years skated like garbage. No competitive nerve at all. Bebe couldn't even beat Kirk at 4Cs last year. You don't think the USFS notices things like that? They are not promoting Emily b/c she is Sarah's sister. They are promoting her b/c of her skating ability and she is a good competitor.

 

[R.D.]

Could someone please pass the haterade? I'd like some

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Me, too. Just for a minute there I was conflicted as to what was the right thing to do.

But now I have recovered my moral bearings. Here is the right right right way to look at it:

Michelle is a dragon, not a pussycat. Injury or no injury, she wants that Olympic spot, so she jumped up and grabbed it by the throat. If anyone else wants it, they will have to pry her talons off it first.

Go Michelle.

EXACTLY!

I think its time to just let it go... because regardless of whether you think its fair or not the current situation is this: win, lose or draw, Michelle Kwan will be in Italy. And she's going there to win, not for the experience, not for the cool jacket... she wants the OGM and she knows what needs to be done. She also knows that nothing is certain and that for 7 minutes she needs to be perfect. Can she do it? Yes. Will she do it? I don't know. Am I rooting for her? Absolutely.

Go Kwan!!!

 

[euterpe]

I don't hate Emily. I just think her skating is too uncontrolled and strikingly ungraceful. She is big and gawky and all that arm-waving makes her look like a tennis player, not a figure skater. When she falls, it is like a tree going down (and she falls a lot).

I think she gets a lot of attention (as well as extra points on her PCS) for SWH (skatiing while Hughes), not because she is a good skater. Good heavens, the girl got total scores of 125 and 126 on the Grand Prix---the lowest scores of any US lady except Amber Corwin! What is outstanding about that?

I think Kimmie, Katy and Christine Zukowski are better skaters than Emily. Sorry, but that's my opinion and I am entitled to it.

Emily a better skater than Michelle Kwan? She has until she is 30 to prove it. Kwan won her first National and World Championships at 15. Emily is 17, and hasn't won a darned thing yet. She's going to have to get going if she's going to beat da Kween.

 

[slutskayafan21]

And what was really sad was that a crappy Irina with only 3 triples and a few pops placed 9th at worlds. The skaters who were healthy whom they sent to Euros could only manage finishes in the late teens.

They gave the youngsters a shot to show their stuff at Europenas that year and they failed miserably. Irina still placed higher than one of the other Russians at Worlds(Volchkova)even with that lame effort. It just shows a bad Irina still deserved clearly to be on the Russian team. The same applies to Michelle at this point, especialy with Csizny turning back into a headcase.

 

[kyla2]

My Opinion

First, Emily Hughes does not deserve to go to the Olympics over Michelle Kwan. The mere thought is laughable. Who gives a s--t what some *** at the new york times thinks? Not me. It only reinforces what I think of the times. The new york times subscription service calls me a couple of times a year to take it. I look forward to these calls so i can tell them EXACTLY what I think of their newspaper. It's one of the high points of my year. For those of us who love Michelle, consider the source and let's move on.

 

[mzheng]

Puhlease Euterpe:
Other skaters would have quit (like Karen Kwan, Mai Asada who is just making a comeback), but Emily stayed on and is making her mark.

Well, you have to just wait for another a few years when she graduates from HS(Like others you chose to compare, besides papa Hughes has enough money afford it.), see if she continue stay in......compete at National level is not a bad resume add on your colledge application at all. --- as put in a chinese slang 'the rock knock the door'.

 

[mzheng]

EXACTLY!

I think its time to just let it go... because regardless of whether you think its fair or not the current situation is this: win, lose or draw, Michelle Kwan will be in Italy. And she's going there to win, not for the experience, not for the cool jacket... she wants the OGM and she knows what needs to be done. She also knows that nothing is certain and that for 7 minutes she needs to be perfect. Can she do it? Yes. Will she do it? I don't know. Am I rooting for her? Absolutely.

Go Kwan!!!

 

[orchid]

I don't hate Emily. I just think her skating is too uncontrolled and strikingly ungraceful. She is big and gawky and all that arm-waving doesn't makes her look like a tennis player, not a figure skater. When she falls, it is like a tree going down (and she falls a lot).

.

yes, Yes, yes, Well said.

Emily skates just as Sarah DID. Sarah never grew out of it, I expect Emily will not either.