Thoughts on a pop music ban for one season?

[AC96]

The fact that a viewpoint like this has drawn 10 pages of comments makes me sad. What kind of arrogance would draw someone to the conclusion that "all music that I personally do not like should be banned"? What about "classical" music makes it inherently better than "pop" music? And of course, quotes are necessary because, as many posters have already pointed out, the classifications are largely arbitrary and imprecise, and in many cases, can be blurred. What is pop? Are we banning music that has been released in the past quarter century? Would anything that the composer Ludovico Einaudi created be banned as well because it is recent, despite the fact that he bears much more resemblance to Chopin than Taylor Swift?

And in response to the first post that no classical music program won the world title across the 4 disciplines - that isn't indicative of anything, save for the fact that the skaters who chose classical music skated poorly. I have no doubt that Gracie Gold's Firebird, if clean, would have taken the title.

To me, the proposal of a music ban reeks of the sort of close-minded attitude of an older adult criticizing the behavior of millennials or lambasting new trends, technology, and viewpoints, simply because they do not understand it, do not like it, and/or fear it. Change is, in general, positive and necessary for progress. If music is good, then it will remain in the public eye. And if one hundred excellent pop songs are released in 2016, then I would hope that all of these pieces be used to create gorgeous programs rather than a half-hearted one to yet another Moonlight Sonata.

Let the skaters and choreographers do with their programs and their art what they wish - it is, after all, theirs. Just as you have the option to continue muting programs you dislike, even at the cost of potentially limiting your view of skating and what it can offer.

 

[Manitou]

....close-minded attitude of an older adult criticizing the behavior of millennials or lambasting new trends, technology, and viewpoints, simply because they do not understand it....

You realize, of course, that your quoted statement is offensive, intolerant, disrespectful and, in fact, very closed-minded.

And I assure you that I, being probably three times of your age, do understand much more than you ever will, plus I am more skilled and fluent in the technology than you ever will be. And I am familiar with many more viewpoints than you will ever be able to tolerate. Which in your case there appears to be only one: your own.

 

[MaxSwagg]

On principle, I don't like banning things. I like classical music more than most other genres of music, but it makes figure skating feel unnecessarily dated and archaic. Modern contemporary dance incorporates all sorts of music. At the same time, classical music (when used appropriately) still has reverence as a serious program so you'll have many of the top skaters still using it.

On top of that, I don't particularly like the ramifications of then figuring out what constitutes as "pop music" and what isn't. Is Pink Floyd's Great Gig in the Sky a pop song? Is Javi's Guys And Dolls program pop music too? What about his fantastic Black Betty program? Who decides what pop music is and isn't? If it's just what you don't like yourself, then that's just the inherent risk and limitation of a skater choosing a pop song when it comes to connecting with the audience on a deeper level.

"Black Betty", at least in the style that Javier used it in, clearly isn't "pop". Music from "Guys and Dolls" is more of a "traditional pop" reminiscent of the "Tin Pan Alley-type" genre. Musicologist determine what constitutes a musical genre and which pieces or songs fit into those genres.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I don't think I'd agree with that as the song is really slow and plodding, but then I was one of the few fans of her 2014-2015 LP even if the costume and packaging was awful and the choreography a bit too self-indulgent.

I actually liked the program last season.

 

[Rissa]

You realize, of course, that your quoted statement is offensive, intolerant, disrespectful and, in fact, very closed-minded.

And I assure you that I, being probably three times of your age, do understand much more than you ever will, plus I am more skilled and fluent in the technology than you ever will be. And I am familiar with many more viewpoints than you will ever be able to tolerate. Which in your case there appears to be only one: your own.

Pot, kettle.

 

[karne]

The fact that a viewpoint like this has drawn 10 pages of comments makes me sad. What kind of arrogance would draw someone to the conclusion that "all music that I personally do not like should be banned"?

Did you read the thread at all? Most of those ten pages have been arguing AGAINST any banning of genres of music, with digressions into the arrogance of fans who assume that skaters should listen to them, fools who think that skaters should be banned from re-using programs, and so on.

 

[heyang]

I HAVEN'T READ the entire thread, but I don't see the point. Every year, there was a thread about overused classical music in skating. The more variety the better IMHO. I do hope that skaters challenge themselves with various types of music and don't continuously rely on the lyrics to help establish the performance value.

 

[draqq]

"Black Betty", at least in the style that Javier used it in, clearly isn't "pop". Music from "Guys and Dolls" is more of a "traditional pop" reminiscent of the "Tin Pan Alley-type" genre. Musicologist determine what constitutes a musical genre and which pieces or songs fit into those genres.

That's the thing. You need an expert to classify what is and isn't "pop music" and different experts can reach different conclusions on what is and isn't pop. Is a song that's blues or rock, but styled with enough pop influence or hits the mainstream so that it's popular, a "pop song"? And then you have what the popular opinion is on what is and isn't a pop song. The waters get extremely muddy.

Separate from the classification problem, I think that there are several contemporary figure skating pieces like Joshua Farris's "Give Me Love" Ed Sheeran SP or the last two free programs for Duhamel and Radford that are on par with any program with classical music. Even if I didn't like them, I think giving the skater the freedom to skate to what they want is more important than whether I like the song or not. Otherwise, I would ban Carmen, POTO, and other classical warhorses for 10 years.

 

[karne]

That's the key point, isn't it? Your "pop"/"modern music" programs can run the spectrum from the sheer breathtaking beauty of Joshua's Give Me Love (now I made myself sad again) to the horror that was Max's Footloose.

But equally, your more "classical" programs can run the spectrum from Joshua's beautiful Claire de Lune to Kovtun's....well, what the heck even was that bizarre concoction we saw at Worlds?

And then you have the two that are mixed - see Brendan's Secrets free skate which had sections of "Secrets" by OneRepublic woven in with Beethoven.

Banning a genre of music doesn't help anyone or anything. There can be rubbish "classical" programs just as there can be rubbish "modern"/"pop" programs, and there can be great "modern"/"pop" programs just as there can be great "classical" programs.

 

[Mathman]

I assure you that I, being probably three times of your age, do understand much more than you ever will...

AC will get the last laugh on us old codgers even so. We will have carried our hard-won understanding to the grave, and AC will still be enjoying figure skating, discussing the variety of musical genres and of musical tastes, and lamenting the faults of the up-start younger generation.

 

[Rissa]

Did the OP strictly meant pop sings when she spoke about her dream ban? To me it came across more as "this new fad of songs with lyrics" which would include everything that wasn't opera/musical.

#teamdiversity anyway

 

[cheerknithanson]

Pot, kettle.

What does that mean?

 

[Mathman]

What does that mean?

Moria Polonius is saying that Manitou is being disrespectful of AC96, just like AC96 is being disrespectful of others. "The pot calling the kettle black."

In reality, of course, we are all friends here. :yes:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think you mean "the pop calling the classical whack"

 

[Mathman]

I think you mean "the pop calling the classical whack"

I am going to change my correction back to the original.

No, I thimk i won't. Don't want to confuse anyone.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

What does that mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_black

 

[Manitou]

What does that mean?

I didnt know it at first either, but then I googled and then I knew. Whatever. No chance an ESL like me can know it. Be more informative the next time. Politically correct request should be this: be internationally sensitive . See, I am being PC probably the first time ever...

 

[skylark]

Sadly a lot of the things that were to improve the sport has also destroyed or at least hurt it. COP/IJS whatever with its changing valuations of elements, changing required elements ie no spiral in ladies, some inconsistencies depending on your perspective ie throw jumps versus single jumps where difficult throw jumps really are not valued the same as single jumps, the integraton of guidelines for grades of executions leading to routines that look more similar and full of awkward sometimes apparently unneeded moves that are done just to score more points from the hand up in jumps to versions of the bielman and awkward ugly positions in lifts and spins. Because the scoring system now seems to change each few eyars it also affects the credibility of the sport in that what was the rule one year is gone the next Yes, we have had changes in the sport ie phasing out or the value of figures but we certainly did not have huge fluctuations that changed almost yearly or every couple of years like the value of the singles toe loop and salchow.

I'd like to see a thread addressing these issues. We could all keep it civil, I know we could.

 

[skylark]

If there were a ban on pop music for even one year, if it had been this year, Adam Rippon wouldn't have been able to do his gorgeous Beatles program. It wasn't just a beautiful program, it was a whole new direction for Adam, and it brought out something in him that hadn't really been expressed fully before, although it was probably always lurking there somewhere.

No. I don't want to limit the ability of any skater to develop their programs in a way that carries them forward, maybe by leaps and bounds.

 

[Amei]

I think banning a specific type of music is harsh - I wouldn't be opposed to the 'speaking parts'/non-lyrical words inserted to a song like Radionova's Titanic program.